Some masks better than others

[Phil C. McNasty]

When you look at Sweden's 2nd wave, its much lower than their 1st wave: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
When you look at Denmark's 2nd wave, its much higher than their 1st wave: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/

Ditto for Spain, France, UK, Italy, Belgium and Holland

Spain COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Spain Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

France COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

France Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Italy COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Italy Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Belgium COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Belgium Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Netherlands COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Netherlands Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

This is what I meant with Sweden now has much better immunity than many other EU countries

 

[doggystyle99]

You didnt answer my question.

Tell us what those sociological norms are that would cause the virus to infect one country much more than the other. You said something along the lines of Swedes will listen to their government more. Please show stats that back up your opinion

But yes the societal norms in Nordic countries and the similarities in them as well as the differences compared to other European countries has been explained to you before you just haven't retained any of the information, You haven't answered any of the previous questions.
The scientific data shows the rate of transmission in both Sweden and Denmark is very similar proving your non factual theory to be false. Please do explain how you view Denmark to be in a 2nd wave yet you view Sweden's number of cases to be on a downslope and proof of reaching herd immunity?
Please also do explain how you originally thought the reduced number of deaths is proof of herd immunity?

As of October 15
--------------------------7 day average---------------7 day average/Mln
Sweden--------------653------------------------------64/Mln
Denmark------------410------------------------------70/Mln
Norway--------------131------------------------------24/Mln
Finland---------------228-----------------------------41/Mln

 

[Fun For All]

Watch this video and then you'll understand why most masks don't work. Covid is airborne, and most masks only stop droplets.
The only protection that would work would be N95 masks and safety glasses (since viruses can enter through the eyes).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1312810470449979392

Mark Dice would not be considered an expert or having a fair minded opinion.

I'll go with the really smart guys who have a background into it.

 

[lenny2]

When you look at Sweden's 2nd wave, its much lower than their 1st wave: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
When you look at Denmark's 2nd wave, its much higher than their 1st wave: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/denmark/

Denmark's 2nd wave is already declining while their deaths are almost nil & way lower than Sweden in Sweden's first wave.

OTOH Sweden's 2nd wave is spiking, skyrocketing, with no end in sight & its first wave had way more deaths than Denmark.

Bottom line: Sweden is the loser. Denmark is the winner.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

But yes the societal norms in Nordic countries and the similarities in them as well as the differences compared to other European countries has been explained to you before you just haven't retained any of the information, You haven't answered any of the previous questions.
The scientific data shows the rate of transmission in both Sweden and Denmark is very similar proving your non factual theory to be false. Please do explain how you view Denmark to be in a 2nd wave yet you view Sweden's number of cases to be on a downslope and proof of reaching herd immunity?
Please also do explain how you originally thought the reduced number of deaths is proof of herd immunity?

As of October 15
--------------------------7 day average---------------7 day average/Mln
Sweden--------------653------------------------------64/Mln
Denmark------------410------------------------------70/Mln
Norway--------------131------------------------------24/Mln
Finland---------------228-----------------------------41/Mln

You have not explained what societal norms are so much different in Sweden as opposed to other EU countries, nor have you posted links that prove your point.

Again, tell us what those sociological norms are that would cause the virus to infect one country much more than the other. You said something along the lines of Swedes will listen to their government more. And please show stats that back up your opinion

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Denmark's 2nd wave is already declining while their deaths are almost nil & way lower than Sweden in Sweden's first wave.

OTOH Sweden's 2nd wave is spiking, skyrocketing, with no end in sight & its first wave had way more deaths than Denmark.

Bottom line: Sweden is the loser. Denmark is the winner

And the other EU countries?? (Spain, France, UK, Italy, Belgium and Holland )

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Mark Dice would not be considered an expert or having a fair minded opinion.

I'll go with the really smart guys who have a background into it.

Its not Mark Dice you should be referring to, but rather the content of the video

 

[Strifen]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1316191229655363584

LMAO

 

[doggystyle99]

You have not explained what societal norms are so much different in Sweden as opposed to other EU countries, nor have you posted links that prove your point.

Again, tell us what those sociological norms are that would cause the virus to infect one country much more than the other. You said something along the lines of Swedes will listen to their government more. And please show stats that back up your opinion

Damn the science denying "Stable Genius" crowd, you all have the same commonality of not retaining, or understanding any information that you read, specifically if you have a predisposition on it formed from your biased & non factual way of thinking.
Here is a thread that I've explained the great similarities of Nordic countries to one another and the differences to other European countries from them, there is also articles linked in there that also touches on the point of sociological norms from Nordic countries to one another and the difference to other European countries.

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/sweden-says-its-coronavirus-approach-has-worked-the-numbers-show-a-different-story.710402/post-6688596

If you lived in Europe and you didn't understand the undeniable similarities of Nordic countries to one another and their difference to the rest of Europe you lived an uninformed life. Even after this has been explained to you numerous times in different threads it's astonishing that you still do not understand this. One would have to be completely oblivious to it's surroundings and facts to not understand this.
Not that I expect you to understand or retain any of the information from the posts or articles in that thread.

Now your turn to answer the previous questions which you don't have a logical response for.

The scientific data shows the rate of transmission in both Sweden and Denmark is very similar proving your non factual theory to be false. Please do explain how you view Denmark to be in a 2nd wave yet you view Sweden's number of cases to be on a downslope and it being proof of Sweden reaching herd immunity?
Please also do explain how you originally thought the reduced number of deaths was proof of herd immunity?

 

[lenny2]

And the other EU countries?? (Spain, France, UK, Italy, Belgium and Holland )

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/why-most-masks-dont-work.726027/page-11#post-6839073

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Damn the science denying "Stable Genius" crowd, you all have the same commonality of not retaining, or understanding any information that you read, specifically if you have a predisposition on it formed from your biased & non factual way of thinking.
Here is a thread that I've explained the great similarities of Nordic countries to one another and the differences to other European countries from them, there is also articles linked in there that also touches on the point of sociological norms from Nordic countries to one another and the difference to other European countries.

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/sweden-says-its-coronavirus-approach-has-worked-the-numbers-show-a-different-story.710402/post-6688596

So in your link you basically outline 3 different societal norms:

1. Italy having an older population.
2. more smokers.
3. and a larger number of close-knit multigenerational households

As far as an older population is concerned, Italy does have that.
But only by about 3%. Thats not very much: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105835/share-of-elderly-population-in-europe-by-country/

Italy also does have more smokers, but studies have shown that smokers were less likely to be hospitalized for coronavirus symptoms, and less likely to have severe symptoms. In China, eight per cent of patients hospitalized for coronavirus were smokers versus 26 per cent of general population. In Italy — eight per cent of those hospitalized were smokers and 19 per cent were not: https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-a...uld-stave-off-covid-19-should-i-start-smoking

And your last argument that Italy has more multigenerational households is also a fail, because thats only a small percentage of the population and in no way can explain they have a higher death rate than Sweden. And if you look at the chart Belgium, Spain and UK also have higher death rates than Sweden, and they do not have a larger percentage of multigenerational households: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

Belgium Holland and France also have a younger population than Sweden: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105835/share-of-elderly-population-in-europe-by-country/

So all in all a massive fail on your part

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Now your turn to answer the previous questions which you don't have a logical response for.

The scientific data shows the rate of transmission in both Sweden and Denmark is very similar proving your non factual theory to be false. Please do explain how you view Denmark to be in a 2nd wave yet you view Sweden's number of cases to be on a downslope and it being proof of Sweden reaching herd immunity?

Yes I do. Look at the overall daily new infection rate. It shows a downward trend from its peak on June 24th.
Almost every other EU country shows an upward slope

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Please also do explain how you originally thought the reduced number of deaths was proof of herd immunity?

A very low number of daily deaths in Sweden tells me almost all new infections are happening in younger people.
This is a good thing because younger people rarely get very sick and almost never die.
The more younger people get infected every day the faster Sweden will reach herd immunity.

And what I found funny was you thinking a country could reach herd immunity overnight. For example going from 500 new infections to zero the next day. You didnt seem to understand that its a gradual process.

Now that I've explained it to you I still dont think you'll understand though, but maybe you can surprise me

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

It's irrelevant to try to compare apples with banana peels. It's relevant to compare like with like, hence the comparison of Sweden with its 3 Northern European Nordic neighbours.

Sweden is relatively isolated up in Northern Europe, more people live alone in Sweden, & Sweden did not have (as Italy did) a humongous influx of infected Chinese from Wuhan early in the year, or a hug the Chinese campaign (that Italy did) that followed that, etc, etc, etc.

Sweden has way more total deaths than their 3 Nordic neighbours (Norway, Finland, Denmark) combined while Sweden has a 50% larger population than the 3 of them combined. And Sweden is no better off economically. Clearly hard lockdowns, as occurred in those 3 nations, were the superior choice to Sweden's soft voluntary isolation approach.

Sweden dead = 5,918
Norway dead = 278
Finland dead = 346
Denmark dead = 677

This is complete horseshit because Spain, UK, Holland and Belgium also did not have (as Italy did) a humongous influx of infected Chinese from Wuhan, they partially locked down and made masks mandatory in some countries, and they still have a higher death rate per capita than Sweden.

Question for you lenny. Do you think with schools resuming across Europe that Sweden should adopt the same model as Denmark and have students wear masks and socially distanced classes??

 

[shack]

Yes I do. Look at the overall daily new infection rate. It shows a downward trend from its peak on June 24th.
Almost every other EU country shows an upward slope

But a steady upward trend for almost 2 months since the low on August 28.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

But a steady upward trend for almost 2 months since the low on August 28

Yes but the 2nd wave is considerably smaller than the 1st wave, and in other EU countries its the exact opposite, their 2nd wave in much larger than their 1st wave. This tells me Sweden already has more immunity built up within the population than other countries.

Madrid even had to lock down again. And the UK is considering locking down as well.

Have a look:

Spain COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Spain Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

France COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

France Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Netherlands COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Netherlands Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Belgium is especially getting hit hard in their 2nd wave: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

Oh and BTW in some of those EU countries masks are mandatory. In Italy you can get fined for not wearing one:

Couple in Italian city of Milan 'fined £360 for kissing in the street'

A couple in Milan claim they were fined £360 by police for kissing in the street without masks despite being engaged for two-and-a-half years and showing evidence to police officers.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[shack]

Yes but the 2nd wave is considerably smaller than the 1st wave, and in other EU countries its the exact opposite, their 2nd wave in much larger than their 1st wave. This tells me Sweden already has more immunity built up within the population than other countries.

Madrid even had to lock down again. And the UK is considering locking down as well.

Have a look:

Spain COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Spain Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

France COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

France Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Netherlands COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Netherlands Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Belgium is especially getting hit hard in their 2nd wave: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/belgium/

True, but one could say "for the time being". It is unsure. It appears that, like the first wave, the U.S. is trailing Europe by a couple of weeks, so it would not be surprising to see the numbers in the U.S. to continue to rise. The last time, we were aghast at the numbers coming from Italy, until it started to hit areas in the States in a similar way. We will need to see. If they do indeed continue to spike, it may even max out very close to election day. There are obvious political implications if that occurs.

I heard today that in Wisconsin, they have something like a 23% positivity rate, i.e. for every 100 people tested there are 23 positives. In Ontario we are all upset about the rising numbers and we have a 3% positivity rates.

 

[lenny2]

This is complete horseshit because Spain, UK, Holland and Belgium also did not have (as Italy did) a humongous influx of infected Chinese from Wuhan, they partially locked down and made masks mandatory in some countries, and they still have a higher death rate per capita than Sweden.

No doubt Spain & the UK got more visitors than Sweden did from hotspots like China & Iran. And Italy got more, too, as i already said to you before.

It's irrelevant to try to compare apples with banana peels. It's relevant to compare like with like, hence the comparison of Sweden with its 3 Northern European Nordic neighbours.

Sweden is relatively isolated up in Northern Europe, more people live alone in Sweden, & Sweden did not have (as Italy did) a humongous influx of infected Chinese from Wuhan early in the year, or a hug the Chinese campaign (that Italy did) that followed that, etc, etc, etc.

Sweden has way more total deaths than their 3 Nordic neighbours (Norway, Finland, Denmark) combined while Sweden has a 50% larger population than the 3 of them combined. And Sweden is no better off economically. Clearly hard lockdowns, as occurred in those 3 nations, were the superior choice to Sweden's soft voluntary isolation approach.

Sweden dead = 5,918
Norway dead = 278
Finland dead = 346
Denmark dead = 677

"Damn the science denying "Stable Genius" crowd, you all have the same commonality of not retaining, or understanding any information that you read, specifically if you have a predisposition on it formed from your biased & non factual way of thinking.
Here is a thread that I've explained the great similarities of Nordic countries to one another and the differences to other European countries from them, there is also articles linked in there that also touches on the point of sociological norms from Nordic countries to one another and the difference to other European countries.

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/swe...rs-show-a-different-story.710402/post-6688596

If you lived in Europe and you didn't understand the undeniable similarities of Nordic countries to one another and their difference to the rest of Europe you lived an uninformed life. Even after this has been explained to you numerous times in different threads it's astonishing that you still do not understand this. One would have to be completely oblivious to it's surroundings and facts to not understand this.
Not that I expect you to understand or retain any of the information from the posts or articles in that thread.

Now your turn to answer the previous questions which you don't have a logical response for.

The scientific data shows the rate of transmission in both Sweden and Denmark is very similar proving your non factual theory to be false. Please do explain how you view Denmark to be in a 2nd wave yet you view Sweden's number of cases to be on a downslope and it being proof of Sweden reaching herd immunity?
Please also do explain how you originally thought the reduced number of deaths was proof of herd immunity?"

https://terb.cc/xenforo/threads/why-most-masks-dont-work.726027/page-12#post-6839960

Sweden has way more total deaths than their 3 Nordic neighbours (Norway, Finland, Denmark) combined while Sweden has a 50% larger population than the 3 of them combined. And Sweden is no better off economically. Clearly hard lockdowns, as occurred in those 3 nations, were the superior choice to Sweden's soft voluntary isolation approach.

Sweden dead = 5,918
Norway dead = 278
Finland dead = 346
Denmark dead = 677

Denmark's 2nd wave is already declining while their deaths are almost nil & way lower than Sweden in Sweden's first wave.

OTOH Sweden's 2nd wave is spiking, skyrocketing, with no end in sight & its first wave had way more deaths than Denmark.

Bottom line: Sweden (no lockdown) is the loser. Denmark (lockdown) is the winner.

 

[doggystyle99]

So in your link you basically outline 3 different societal norms:

1. Italy having an older population.
2. more smokers.
3. and a larger number of close-knit multigenerational households

As far as an older population is concerned, Italy does have that.
But only by about 3%. Thats not very much: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105835/share-of-elderly-population-in-europe-by-country/

Italy also does have more smokers, but studies have shown that smokers were less likely to be hospitalized for coronavirus symptoms, and less likely to have severe symptoms. In China, eight per cent of patients hospitalized for coronavirus were smokers versus 26 per cent of general population. In Italy — eight per cent of those hospitalized were smokers and 19 per cent were not: https://www.healthing.ca/diseases-a...uld-stave-off-covid-19-should-i-start-smoking

And your last argument that Italy has more multigenerational households is also a fail, because thats only a small percentage of the population and in no way can explain they have a higher death rate than Sweden. And if you look at the chart Belgium, Spain and UK also have higher death rates than Sweden, and they do not have a larger percentage of multigenerational households: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

Belgium Holland and France also have a younger population than Sweden: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1105835/share-of-elderly-population-in-europe-by-country/

So all in all a massive fail on your part

The only thing that is a failure is your comprehension skills
Comprehension:
noun
The action or capability of understanding something

Those are not the only differences, now go re read and understand what they are and come back.
Why am I not surprised that you can't figure out the number of elderly people in Italy Vs Sweden is significantly higher. One has got to be completely clueless if one views it as only a 3% difference and one can not see the significant difference in population which is a significant contributing factor.
Like I said you must have lived an extremely uninformed life in Europe if these important and known facts were and still are unbeknownst to you.

Here it is for you.
Population over 65 years old
-----Sweden--------------------------------Italy
-----2,000,000+---------------------------13,500,000+
Italy has more elderly people than Sweden has population
Now go and try to do the math to understand the significant difference in age between the 2 countries.

Yes I do. Look at the overall daily new infection rate. It shows a downward trend from its peak on June 24th.
Almost every other EU country shows an upward slope

The fact that you look at the above numbers and still view it as a downward trend is absolutely ingenious on your part and mind boggling to others.
Here is a hint, Your drawn line across the graph needs be a lot shorter.
Again let me repeat this for you the number of cases in Sweden has risen sharply from September 1st. Which means an upward trend

Sweden 7 day average:
September 1st----------162
October 20th-------------818

A very low number of daily deaths in Sweden tells me almost all new infections are happening in younger people.
This is a good thing because younger people rarely get very sick and almost never die.
The more younger people get infected every day the faster Sweden will reach herd immunity.

And what I found funny was you thinking a country could reach herd immunity overnight. For example going from 500 new infections to zero the next day. You didnt seem to understand that its a gradual process.

Now that I've explained it to you I still dont think you'll understand though, but maybe you can surprise me

The lower number of deaths or the new infections being seen in younger people is not limited to only Sweden, it's being seen worldwide.
What's funny is you originally thought herd immunity had to do with the reduced number of deaths, then thought it's the comparison between the number of cases seen in one country Vs another.
You simply do not understand that herd immunity is based on the rate of transmission that is happening in the community in this case a country. And the rate of transmission in Sweden is still high and not showing any signs of herd immunity.


You still haven't been able to logically explain that meanwhile the rate of transmission in both Sweden and Denmark is very similar you view Denmark to be in a 2nd wave yet you view Sweden's number of cases on a downward trend?
Please also do explain how you originally thought the reduced number of deaths was proof of herd immunity?