Slut walk

Art Mann

sapiosexual
May 10, 2010
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After all the twists and turns and all the raging, sometimes roaring, debate this thread has taken, perhaps it wouldn't hurt to revisit the opening post, click on the web link, and ponder the purpose of the upcoming event.

From that home page:

Historically, the term ‘slut’ has carried a predominantly negative connotation. Aimed at those who are sexually promiscuous, be it for work or pleasure, it has primarily been women who have suffered under the burden of this label. And whether dished out as a serious indictment of one’s character or merely as a flippant insult, the intent behind the word is always to wound, so we’re taking it back. “Slut” is being re-appropriated.
To which I can only say, god bless you ladies, every one of you. Go do what needs to be done.

I have always been struck not only by the negative connotation of the word "slut" but also by the hypocrisy and double-standard of men who use it so freely to describe women who behave like just themselves or may in fact be a hell of a lot less promiscuous.

As a result, I choose not to use the word slut, specifically because it carries that "intent to wound," but if women re-appropriate it, that's a cause I'm happy to support.

Here's an interesting viewpoint from one woman who has already opted to "take it back":

http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-why-i-like-being-called-a-slut-in-bed/
 
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Sahib posted that men should use their brains more - to add to that point there is no (scientifically) research to support that it is provocative clothing that spurs on or encourages rape. In countries where women are forced to cover themselves from head to toe, rape still occurs...if one is of the opinion that provocative dress leads to rape. how does one explain that?! Plain and simply rape is an issue of power.
I disagree, see post #94, where there is evidence that in fact man often rape for sexual satisfaction.

""The relationship between attractiveness and the likelihood of being the victim of sexual coercion has never been directly examined," Felson claims, probably because of resistance to the idea that rape is sexually driven. But according to the latest National Crime Victimization Survey (published by the Bureau of Justice Statistics), almost all female rape victims are younger than 35, and numerous studies document a correlation between youthfulness and attractiveness. The theory is bolstered by rapists themselves. As far back as 1976, when the rape-as-power theory took hold, a study cited by Felson found that rapists said they preferred victims who were "nice, friendly, young, pretty and middle class."

He goes on to show that even in the case of male rape in prisons, better looking and young males are the usual targets.

This 'rape as a power trip' theory is largely the tool of feminists to further their agenda. Richard Felson, 'Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective, writes about this 'rape as power ' theory:

But for Felson and coauthor Tedeschi, the preeminent issue is one of scientific accountability. "We can think of no other assertion in the social sciences," they write, "that has achieved such wide acceptance based on so little evidence."

From http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_n36_v10/ai_15794136/ :

The fundamental truth about rape, as everyone knows, is that it has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power and domination -- rapists are compelled not by lust but by hatred and anger.

But this widely accepted argument is wrong, say two researchers at the State University of New York at Albany. With their forthcoming book Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective, sociologist James Tedeschi and psychologist Richard Felson have stoked controversy in academic and feminist circles. The chapter on sexual coercion begins by illustrating their premise that "the most prevalent motivation for the use of sexual coercion is to produce sexual compliance and gain sexual satisfaction."
 
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I think the onus should be on the 'rape is power' theorists to explain why a thing is not what it appears to be. By that, i mean that we murder because we want the person dead.
We steal because we want the things. In crimes, criminals want the thing they are illegally doing. But supposedly with rape, seemingly alone among crimes, the basic crime - forced sexual intercourse apparently is not for the purpose which seems obvious: the gaining of sexual pleasure.

I have provided evidence that in fact that is for the most part EXACTLY what rapists want. Everyone can boldly assert all they want that it is about power, but i have evidence proving the exact opposite, done by the way by two highoy respected researchers,

Felson and Tedeschi can hardly be dismissed as quacks or as politically motivated. Felson describes himself as "politically liberal, no question." Both men are considered eminent researchers in the field of violence and aggression. Their book is being published by the American Psychological Association, which demands rigorous scholarly screening and peer review.
 
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Furthermore, this supposedly huge amount of raping and sexual violence going on has to be taken with several grains of salt..

Questioning the common tenets about rape has landed other social scientists in hot water. A few years ago, University of California at Berkeley Professor Neil Gilbert was targeted by date-rape groups when he questioned the most widely cited survey on the prevalence of rape, a 1985 study by Mary Koss commissioned by Ms. magazine.

Gilbert criticized Koss's methodology and found that her claim that "one in four women" were victims of rape was exaggerated -- and that women on college campuses did not, contrary to Koss's assertions, have to fear rape at every turn. But rather than being thanked for the good news, Gilbert found himself vilified at rape-awareness gatherings and honored with "anti-Gilbert" packages prepared by the National Clearinghouse on Marital and Date Rape.

In fact, even the famous Koss study found that about half of the alleged victims continued to have sex at later times with the "rapist," and that the majority -- 73 percent -- of these "victims" did not consider themselves raped.

A problem, says Felson, is that some researchers use the terms "coercive" or "assaultive" to describe any attempts at persuasion that they personally find objectionable. (Some feminists, for example, believe that any sexual activity not initiated by a woman is rape.) But value judgments can't replace scientific analysis: "False promises of love and badgering may be obnoxious or morally repugnant, but they are not coercive. Giving alcohol to someone is not coercive, although coercion may follow if sexual relations are forced on a person who is incapacitated or unconscious," writes Felson.

In fact, a large number of women who were defined as rape victims in the Koss survey and in other studies describe their experiences as resulting from "miscommunication." In a majority of these cases, in fact, the rape occurred while the couple was engaged in consensual sexual acts.

What it comes down to, Felson says, is "rape is a horrible crime -- it shouldn't matter what the rapist's motivation is." However, there's nothing new about the intrusion of ideology into science, he adds. "The scientific method itself is under attack. People feel so strongly about these issues; feelings are replacing science."
 
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More on that fanous Koss study quoted by gen: excerpts from

Researching the "Rape Culture" of America
Dr. Christina Hoff Sommers (a woman by the way)

Of the rape studies by nongovernment groups, the two most frequently cited are the 1985 Ms. magazine report by Mary Koss and the 1992 National Women's Study by Dr. Dean Kilpatrick of the Crime Victims Research and Treatment Center at the Medical School of South Carolina. In 1982, Mary Koss, then a professor of psychology at Kent State University in Ohio, published an article on rape in which she expressed the orthodox gender feminist view that "rape represents an extreme behavior but one that is on a continuum with normal male behavior within the culture" (my emphasis).[6] Some well-placed feminist activists were impressed by her. As Koss tells it, she received a phone call out of the blue inviting her to lunch with Gloria Steinem.[7] For Koss, the lunch was a turning point. Ms. magazine had decided to do a national rape survey on college campuses, and Koss was chosen to direct it. Koss's findings would become the most frequently cited research on women's victimization, not so much by established scholars in the field of rape research as by journalists, politicians, and activists.
Koss counted anyone who answered affirmatively to any of the last three questions as having been raped:

8. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?

9. Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man threatened or used some degree of physical force (twisting your arm, holding you down, etc.) to make you?

10. Have you had sexual acts (anal or oral intercourse or penetration by objects other than the penis) when you didn't want to because a man threatened or used some degree of physical force (twisting your arm, holding you down, etc.) to make you?

Koss and her colleagues concluded that 15.4 percent of respondents had been raped, and that 12.1 percent had been victims of attempted rape.[9] Thus, a total of 27.5 percent of the respondents were determined to have been victims of rape or attempted rape because they gave answers that fit Koss's criteria for rape (penetration by penis, finger, or other object under coercive influence such as physical force, alcohol, or threats). However, that is not how the so-called rape victims saw it. Only about a quarter of the women Koss calls rape victims labeled what happened to them as rape. According to Koss, the answers to the follow-up questions revealed that "only 27 percent" of the women she counted as having been raped labeled themselves as rape victims.[10] Of the remainder, 49 percent said it was "miscommunication," 14 percent said it was a "crime but not rape," and 11 percent said they "don't feel victimized."[11]

In line with her view of rape as existing on a continuum of male sexual aggression, Koss also asked: "Have you given in to sex play (fondling, kissing, or petting, but not intercourse) when you didn't want to because you were overwhelmed by a man's continual arguments and pressure?" To this question, 53.7 percent responded affirmatively, and they were counted as having been sexually victimized.

The Koss study, released in 1988, became known as the Ms. Report. Here is how the Ms. Foundation characterizes the results: "The Ms. project-the largest scientific investigation ever undertaken on the subject-revealed some disquieting statistics, including this astonishing fact: one in four female respondents had an experience that met the legal definition of rape or attempted rape."[12]

The Official "One in Four" Figure

"One in four" has since become the official figure on women's rape victimization cited in women's studies departments, rape crisis centers, women's magazines, and on protest buttons and posters. Susan Faludi defended it in a Newsweek story on sexual correctness.[13] Naomi Wolf refers to it in The Beauty Myth, calculating that acquaintance rape is "more common than lefthandedness, alcoholism, and heart attacks."[14] "One in four" is chanted in "Take Back the Night" processions, and it is the number given in the date rape brochures handed out at freshman orientation at colleges and universities around the country.[15] Politicians, from Senator Joseph Biden of Delaware, a Democrat, to Republican Congressman Jim Ramstad of Minnesota, cite it regularly, and it is the primary reason for the Title IV, "Safe Campuses for Women" provision of the Violence Against Women Act of 1993, which provides twenty million dollars to combat rape on college campuses.[16]

When Neil Gilbert, a professor at Berkeley's School of Social Welfare, first read the "one in four" figure in the school newspaper, he was convinced it could not be accurate. The results did not tally with the findings of almost all previous research on rape. When he read the study he was able to see where the high figures came from and why Koss's approach was unsound.
He noticed, for example, that Koss and her colleagues counted as victims of rape any respondent who answered "yes" to the question "Have you had sexual intercourse when you didn't want to because a man gave you alcohol or drugs?" That opened the door wide to regarding as a rape victim anyone who regretted her liaison of the previous night. If your date mixes a pitcher of margaritas and encourages you to drink with him and you accept a drink, have you been "administered" an intoxicant, and has your judgment been impaired? Certainly, if you pass out and are molested, one would call it rape. But if you drink and, while intoxicated, engage in sex that you later come to regret, have you been raped? Koss does not address these questions specifically, she merely counts your date as a rapist and you as a rape statistic if you drank with your date and regret having had sex with him. As Gilbert points out, the question, as Koss posed it, is far too ambiguous:

What does having sex "because" a man gives you drugs or alcohol signify? A positive response does not indicate whether duress, intoxication, force, or the threat of force were present; whether the woman's judgment or control were substantially impaired; or whether the man purposefully got the woman drunk in order to prevent her resistance to sexual advances.... While the item could have been clearly worded to denote "intentional incapacitation of the victim," as the question stands it would require a mind reader to detect whether any affirmative response corresponds to this legal definition of rape.[17]
 
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For Gilbert, the most serious indication that something was basically awry in the Ms./Koss study was that the majority of women she classified as having been raped did not believe they had been raped. Of those Koss counts as having been raped, only 27 percent thought they had been; 73 percent did not say that what happened to them was rape. In effect, Koss and her followers present us with a picture of confused young women overwhelmed by threatening males who force their attentions on them during the course of a date but are unable or unwilling to classify their experience as rape. Does that picture fit the average female undergraduate? For that matter, does it plausibly apply to the larger community? As the journalist Cathy Young observes, "Women have sex after initial reluctance for a number of reasons . . . fear of being beaten up by their dates is rarely reported as one of them."[22]

Katie Roiphe, a graduate student in English at Princeton and author of The Morning After: Sex, Fear, and Feminism on Campus, argues along similar lines when she claims that Koss had no right to reject the judgment of the college women who didn't think they were raped. But Katha Pollitt of The Nation defends Koss, pointing out that in many cases people are wronged without knowing it. Thus we do not say that "victims of other injustices-fraud, malpractice, job discrimination-have suffered no wrong as long as they are unaware of the law."[23]

Pollitt's analogy is faulty, however. If Jane has ugly financial dealings with Tom and an expert explains to Jane that Tom has defrauded her, then Jane usually thanks the expert for having enlightened her about the legal facts. To make her case, Pollitt would have to show that the rape victims who were unaware that they were raped would accept Koss's judgment that they really were. But that has not been shown; Koss did not enlighten the women she counts as rape victims, and they did not say "now that you explain it, we can see we were."

Koss and Pollitt make a technical (and in fact dubious) legal point: women are ignorant about what counts as rape. Roiphe makes a straightforward human point: the women were there, and they know best how to judge what happened to them. Since when do feminists consider "law" to override women's experience?

Koss also found that 42 percent of those she counted as rape victims went on to have sex with their attackers on a later occasion. For victims of attempted rape, the figure for subsequent sex with reported assailants was 35 percent. Koss is quick to point out that "it is not known if [the subsequent sex] was forced or voluntary" and that most of the relationships "did eventually break up subsequent to the victimization."[24] But of course, most college relationships break up eventually for one reason or another. Yet, instead of taking these young women at their word, Koss casts about for explanations of why so many "raped" women would return to their assailants, implying that they may have been coerced. She ends by treating her subjects' rejection of her findings as evidence that they were confused and sexually naive. There is a more respectful explanation. Since most of those Koss counts as rape victims did not regard themselves as having been raped, why not take this fact and the fact that so many went back to their partners as reasonable indications that they had not been raped to begin with?
 
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There are many researchers who study rape victimization, but their relatively low figures generate no headlines. The reporters from the Blade interviewed several scholars whose findings on rape were not sensational but whose research methods were sound and were not based on controversial definitions. Eugene Kanin, a retired professor of sociology from Purdue University and a pioneer in the field of acquaintance rape, is upset by the intrusion of politics into the field of inquiry: "This is highly convoluted activism rather than social science research."[35] Professor Margaret Gordon of the University of Washington did a study in 1981 that came with relatively low figures for rape (one in fifty). She tells of the negative reaction to her findings: "There was some pressure-at least I felt pressure-to have rape be as prevalent as possible . . .. I'm a pretty strong feminist, but one of the things I was fighting was that the really avid feminists were trying to get me to say that things were worse than they really are."[36]

Dr. Linda George of Duke University also found relatively low rates of rape (one in seventeen), even though she asked questions very close to Kilpatrick's. She told the Blade she is concerned that many of her colleagues treat the high numbers as if they are "cast in stone."[37] Dr. Naomi Breslau, director of research in the psychiatry department at the Henry Ford Health Science Center in Detroit, who also found low numbers, feels that it is important to challenge the popular view that higher numbers are necessarily more accurate. Dr. Breslau sees the need for a new and more objective program of research: "It's really an open question. . . . We really don't know a whole lot about it."[38]
An intrepid few in the academy have publicly criticized those who have proclaimed a "rape crisis" for irresponsibly exaggerating the problem and causing needless anxiety. Camille Paglia claims that they have been especially hysterical about date rape: "Date rape has swelled into a catastrophic cosmic event, like an asteroid threatening the earth in a 50's science fiction film."[39] She bluntly rejects the contention that "'No' always means no . . ..'No' has always been, and always will be, part of the dangerous, alluring courtship ritual of sex and seduction, observable even in the animal kingdom."[40]

Paglia's dismissal of date rape hype infuriates campus feminists, for whom the rape crisis is very real. On most campuses, date-rape groups hold meetings, marches, rallies. Victims are "survivors," and their friends are "co-survivors" who also suffer and need counseling.[41] At some rape awareness meetings, women who have not yet been date raped are referred to as "potential survivors." Their male classmates are "potential rapists."[42]
 
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Has date rape in fact reached critical proportions on the college campus? Having heard about an outbreak of rape at Columbia University, Peter Hellman of New York magazine decided to do a story about it.[43] To his surprise, he found that campus police logs showed no evidence of it whatsoever. Only two rapes were reported to the Columbia campus police in 1990, and in both cases, charges were dropped for lack of evidence. Hellman checked the figures at other campuses and found that in 1990 fewer than one thousand rapes were reported to campus security on college campuses in the entire country.[44] That works out to fewer than one-half of one rape per campus. Yet despite the existence of a rape crisis center at St. Luke's-Roosevelt Hospital two blocks from Columbia University, campus feminists pressured the administration into installing an expensive rape crisis center inside the university. Peter Hellman describes a typical night at the center in February 1992: "On a recent Saturday night, a shift of three peer counselors sat in the Rape Crisis Center-one a backup to the other two. . . . Nobody called; nobody came. As if in a firehouse, the three women sat alertly and waited for disaster to strike. It was easy to forget these were the fading hours of the eve of Valentine's Day."[45]

In The Morning After, Katie Roiphe describes the elaborate measures taken to prevent sexual assaults at Princeton. Blue lights have been installed around the campus, freshman women are issued whistles at orientation. There are marches, rape counseling sessions, emergency telephones. But as Roiphe tells it, Princeton is a very safe town, and whenever she walked across a deserted golf course to get to classes, she was more afraid of the wild geese than of a rapist. Roiphe reports that between 1982 and 1993 only two rapes were reported to the campus police. And, when it comes to violent attacks in general, male students are actually more likely to be the victims. Roiphe sees the campus rape crisis movement as a phenomenon of privilege: these young women have had it all, and when they find out that the world can be dangerous and unpredictable, they are outraged:

Many of these girls [in rape marches] came to Princeton from Milton and Exeter. Many of their lives have been full of summers in Nantucket and horseback-riding lessons. These are women who have grown up expecting fairness, consideration, and politeness.[46]

Other critics, such as Camille Paglia and Berkeley professor of social welfare Neil Gilbert, have been targeted for demonstrations, boycotts, and denunciations. Gilbert began to publish his critical analyses of the Ms./ Koss study in 1990.[57] Many feminist activists did not look kindly on Gilbert's challenge to their "one in four" figure. A date rape clearinghouse in San Francisco devotes itself to "refuting" Gilbert; it sends out masses of literature attacking him. It advertises at feminist conferences with green and orange fliers bearing the headline STOP IT, BITCH! The words are not Gilbert's, but the tactic is an effective way of drawing attention to his work. At one demonstration against Gilbert on the Berkeley campus, students chanted, "Cut it out or cut it off," and carried signs that read, KILL NEIL GILBERT![58] Sheila Kuehl, the director of the California Women's Law Center, confided to readers of the Los Angeles Daily Journal, "I found myself wishing that Gilbert, himself, might be raped and . . . be told, to his face, it had never happened."[59]
 
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According to Stephen Donaldson, president of Stop Prison Rape, more than 290,000 male prisoners are assaulted each year. Prison rape, says Donaldson in a New York Times opinion piece, "is an entrenched tradition." Donaldson, who was himself a victim of prison rape twenty years ago when he was incarcerated for antiwar activities, has calculated that there may be as many as 45,000 rapes every day in our prison population of 1.2 million men. The number of rapes is vastly higher than the number of victims because the same men are often attacked repeatedly. Many of the rapes are "gang bangs" repeated day after day. To report such a rape is a terribly dangerous thing to do, so these rapes may be the most underreported of all. No one knows how accurate Donaldson's figures are. They seem incredible to me. But the tragic and neglected atrocities he is concerned about are not the kind whose study attracts grants from the Ford or Ms. foundations. If he is anywhere near right the incidence of male rape would be as high or higher than that of female rape.

Equity feminists find it reasonable to approach the problem of violence against women by addressing the root causes of the general rise in violence and the decline in civility. To view rape as a crime of gender bias (encouraged by a patriarchy that looks with tolerance on the victimization of women) is perversely to miss its true nature. Rape is perpetrated by criminals, which is to say, it is perpetrated by people who are wont to gratify themselves in criminal ways and who care very little about the suffering they inflict on others.

That most violence is male isn't news. But very little of it appears to be misogynist. This country has more than its share of violent males, statistically we must expect them to gratify themselves at the expense of people weaker than themselves, male or female; and so they do. Gender feminist ideologues bemuse and alarm the public with inflated statistics. And they have made no case for the claim that violence against women is symptomatic of a deeply misogynist culture.

Rape is just one variety of crime against the person, and rape of women is just one subvariety. The real challenge we face in our society is how to reverse the tide of violence. How to achieve this is a true challenge to our moral imagination. It is clear that we must learn more about why so many of our male children are so violent. And it is clear we must find ways to educate all of our children to regard violence with abhorrence and contempt. We must once again teach decency and considerateness. And this, too, must become clear: in any constructive agenda for the future, the gender feminist's divisive social philosophy has no place.
 

dirtyharry555

Well-known member
Feb 7, 2011
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This 'rape as a power trip' theory is largely the tool of feminists to further their agenda. Richard Felson, 'Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective, writes about this 'rape as power ' theory:

But for Felson and coauthor Tedeschi, the preeminent issue is one of scientific accountability. "We can think of no other assertion in the social sciences," they write, "that has achieved such wide acceptance based on so little evidence."

The fundamental truth about rape, as everyone knows, is that it has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power and domination -- rapists are compelled not by lust but by hatred and anger.

Radical feminist critique has supplanted actual science in gender studies. The transition started in the 70s and now it's complete. I witnessed it at almost every stage in my lifetime.

The 'rape as power' theory is one example of how this political movement used dogma and coercion to shape the context and control the dialogue of gender relations of an entire generation. The idea that rape is about sexual pleasure doesn't fit neatly into the narrative of patriarchy that is at the core of radical feminism.

Assault = power

Sexual Assault = sex + power

The notion that sexual pleasure isn't a component of rape flies in the face of basic common sense. But like psychoanalysis, such bizarre and elaborate propositions, which have little scientific basis, have been propagated through a system of lies, bullying, omission, and repetition.
 
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