Sick Days

[Mrbig1949]

Unions set the pace!!

It works for 70 to 80% of the workforce.
If the employee feels he is under compensated he finds another job.
This is a bad thing for the employer if the employee is a valued asset, which most are. So most tend to raise compensation to keep good employees

What makes your group of workers so special that the laws of supply & demand do not apply to them?

Oh yes I forgot. They are willing to apply extortion

One of the most important things you guys cannot seem to grasp is that any good wages and benefits in the unorganized sector are a direct result of the wages and benefits negotiated by unions. They set a standard that other employers must meet or not have any employees. Even shithead employers like Wal-mart feel this pressure. Everybody benefits from unions (oh except a few skinflint employers who think the world revolves around them).

 

[blackrock13]

One of the most important things you guys cannot seem to grasp is that any good wages and benefits in the unorganized sector are a direct result of the wages and benefits negotiated by unions. They set a standard that other employers must meet or not have any employees. Even shithead employers like Wal-mart feel this pressure. Everybody benefits from unions (oh except a few skinflint employers who think the world revolves around them).

More union claptrap. If that was true, the union workforce numbers would be increasing, which they're not. You would also be making inroads in the major companies, which you're not.

Still no comment on the union=quality equation and my rebuttal, so I'll take that as an admission that you were wrong (I'm being nice)

Most of my work is in a non-unionized environment and I'm well compensated for my skill set. It's been years since a union had anything to do with my training or skills and again I get to keep all the money I make and do with it as I wish. On occasion I have been called in to correct problems, some simple and some not so simple, that highly trained union workers caused. So the comment of union=quality brings a big smile to my face.

After negotiating for some projects and losing to pie-in-the-sky quotes, I've often given my business card and said, 'stay in touch or 'call me if something goes awry'. I used to be amazed at how many calls I've received. Not any more and of course the cost to 'fix' things is more than my original estimate. Win/win.

You also don't seem to be commenting on the overwhelming lack of public support that the CUPE strikers are facing in this strike, or the affect of the 'goonery' that seems to poke through. The goon moves are just a reflection of the mentality of the strikers. Not all but there shouldn't be any of that type of stuff. It's just stupid. Dissenting voices are starting to be heard and I'll bet with great trepidation because of the guaranteed pressure that would put on those dissenters to keep quite and tow the line. Still no rebuttal of my comments on your union stance on the evils of capitalism and the hypocrisy of the corporate holdings. Must be I've hit another nerve and you know it's right.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Strikes are never popular

More union claptrap. If that was true, the union workforce numbers would be increasing, which they're not. You would also be making inroads in the major companies, which you're not.

Still no comment on the union=quality equation and my rebuttal, so I'll take that as an admission that you were wrong (I'm being nice)

Most of my work is in a non-unionized environment and I'm well compensated for my skill set. It's been years since a union had anything to do with my training or skills and again I get to keep all the money I make and do with it as I wish. On occasion I have been called in to correct problems, some simple and some not so simple, that highly trained union workers caused. So the comment of union=quality brings a big smile to my face.

After negotiating for some projects and losing to pie-in-the-sky quotes, I've often given my business card and said, 'stay in touch or 'call me if something goes awry'. I used to be amazed at how many calls I've received. Not any more and of course the cost to 'fix' things is more than my original estimate. Win/win.

You also don't seem to commenting on the overwhelming lack of public support that the CUPE strikers are facing in this strike, or the affect of the 'goonery' that seems to poke through. The goon moves are just a reflection of the mentality of the strikers. Not all but there shouldn't be any of that type of stuff. It's just stupid. Dissenting voices are starting to be heard and I'll bet with great trepidation because of the guaranteed pressure that would put on those dissenters to keep quite and tow the line.

But the popularity of a strike has nothing to do with it. Ask in a poll if unions should be outlawed and you will find out the opposite. Any economist right left and centre will tell you that the unions set the pace for the standard of living of any community. They don't have to grow. In their present position they still have a powerful effect on overall wages and benefits.

The lack of union density argument is largely a factor of anti-union laws but will be rectified by a return to card check certification and other rule changes.

There is a structural change in the economy. Free trade, robotics, etc has meant fewer of the more easily organized jobs exist and more service sector McJobs are there but eventually the Wal-marts of the world will be organized into unions. BTW Walmart haes unions because they are forced to increase their minimum wage offerings since nobody will work there if they can get a decent union job.

Solidarity as we say

Big

 

[blackrock13]

But the popularity of a strike has nothing to do with it. Ask in a poll if unions should be outlawed and you will find out the opposite. Any economist right left and centre will tell you that the unions set the pace for the standard of living of any community. They don't have to grow. In their present position they still have a powerful effect on overall wages and benefits.

The lack of union density argument is largely a factor of anti-union laws but will be rectified by a return to card check certification and other rule changes.

There is a structural change in the economy. Free trade, robotics, etc has meant fewer of the more easily organized jobs exist and more service sector McJobs are there but eventually the Wal-marts of the world will be organized into unions. BTW Walmart haes unions because they are forced to increase their minimum wage offerings since nobody will work there if they can get a decent union job.

Solidarity as we say

Big

Right and wrong.

The lack of union density in the Ontario municipalities garbage service has nothing to do with anti-union laws. It's a simple case of satisfactory price for satisfactory service.

Don't ever think I'm a big fan of the Walmart nation. I think it's a blight that needs to be dealt with hard. We can get into that at another time. any time Walmart smells a successful union drive they close up shop and move to some other unsuspecting community. Just look at what happened in Quebec. Walmart has been sent packing in Germany and S Korea for their business practices.

The only people who think that polls mean little are the losers in the polls; ask ANY politicians.

Of course unions have to grow. That's why their latest drive have target smaller more isolated segments of the workforce.

I do have contact with more than my share of economist across the spectrum. I can't say your statements ever get discussed at table ,on the patio or on the floor.

 

[JohnLarue]

One of the most important things you guys cannot seem to grasp is that any good wages and benefits in the unorganized sector are a direct result of the wages and benefits negotiated by unions. They set a standard that other employers must meet or not have any employees. Even shithead employers like Wal-mart feel this pressure. Everybody benefits from unions (oh except a few skinflint employers who think the world revolves around them).

Your taking credit where it is not deserved.
My compensation has grown over the years, but like most professionals it has to do with increased experience and expertise, voluntary education && training and a commitment to provide quality work.
Has this gone 100% smoothly? No way, bumps on the road for sure. But the increase is down to my efforts.

It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to with the wages & benefits negotiated by unions.

I personally find your argument irresponsible and insulting as you take credit for my hard work

In fact your negotiated increases have probably negated a lot of my efforts by increasing the costs to me for autos, property taxes & many other items / services I purchase.
Your more likly to cause harm by introducing inflation when Garbagemen are rewarded excessive compensation relative to the vlaue they provide

Another one of your myths laid waste
Keep them coming & I will knock them down one at a time. Its not that hard

 

[Mrbig1949]

High opinion of yourself

Your taking credit where it is not deserved.
My compensation has grown over the years, but like most professionals it has to do with increased experience and expertise, voluntary education && training and a commitment to provide quality work.
Has this gone 100% smoothly? No way, bumps on the road for sure. But the increase is down to my efforts.

It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to with the wages & benefits negotiated by unions.

I personally find your argument irresponsible and insulting as you take credit for my hard work

In fact your negotiated increases have probably negated a lot of my efforts by increasing the costs to me for autos, property taxes & many other items / services I purchase.
Your more likly to cause harm by introducing inflation when Garbagemen are rewarded excessive compensation relative to the vlaue they provide

Another one of your myths laid waste
Keep them coming & I will knock them down one at a time. Its not that hard

Just because you write something doesn't mean the arguments have any merit whatsoever. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion that union wages and benefits raise everybody's boat is is simply a FACT, not really open to debate. There are others, good solid boosts to the minimum wage also raises all wages above this. You are too self centred to see beyond your own situation. No wonder you don't like unions, every second word from you is I or me. Unions are about we. They are about what is good for the whole community not the selfish interests of one individual. Grow up, you still argue like a sophmore.

 

[blackrock13]

Just because you write something doesn't mean the arguments have any merit whatsoever. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion that union wages and benefits raise everybody's boat is is simply a FACT, not really open to debate. There are others, good solid boosts to the minimum wage also raises all wages above this. You are too self centred to see beyond your own situation. No wonder you don't like unions, every second word from you is I or me. Unions are about we. They are about what is good for the whole community not the selfish interests of one individual. Grow up, you still argue like a sophmore.

JL doesn't speak for just himself and I'm sure I'm not the only other one.

Looking at my other post and you'll see that we're not alone, Apparently 92% of the workforce think they're well treated by their bosses. Apparently a few hundred people in the Toronto CUPE union are beginning to think things aren't so bad and want to go back to work.

We're not alone.

Sounds like something from a movie.

 

[Mrbig1949]

92 % because of unions

JL doesn't speak for just himself and I'm sure I'm not the only other one.

Looking at my other post and you'll see that we're not alone, Apparently 92% of the workforce think they're well treated by their bosses. Apparently a few hundred people in the Toronto CUPE union are beginning to think things aren't so bad and want to go back to work.

We're not alone.

Sounds like something from a movie.

The reason 92% of workers feel they are well treated is BECAUSE OF UNIONS whether they are in an organized workplace or not. Real unions and/or the fear of unions is the major incentive for bosses to treat workers well. 98% of contracts are settled without a strike or lockout. Sometimes it doesn't work so well so we have a remedy for that, it is called the LEGAL strike or lockout.

 

[blackrock13]

The reason 92% of workers feel they are well treated is BECAUSE OF UNIONS whether they are in an organized workplace or not. Real unions and/or the fear of unions is the major incentive for bosses to treat workers well. 98% of contracts are settled without a strike or lockout. Sometimes it doesn't work so well so we have a remedy for that, it is called the LEGAL strike or lockout.

You have an exaggerated idea of the effects of unions and the fear factor, if you think they carry that much weight in a marketplace, where only 30 % of the workers are unionized and 77% don't want to be. That's 2.5 times more.

It's fast become a case of I don't care what the facts are, i know what I know.

 

[Moraff]

You have an exaggerated idea of the effects of unions and the fear factor, if you think they carry that much weight in a marketplace, where only 30 % of the workers are unionized and 77% don't want to be. That's 2.5 times more.

It's fast become a case of I don't care what the facts are, i know what I know.

Well my understanding is that Dofasco used to just wait to see what Stelco settled their contract at and then gave that to their workers. So if I worked at Dofasco I would have no reason to join a union as I would be receiving the same benefit w/o the dues.

Be interesting to see what happens now.....

 

[blackrock13]

Well my understanding is that Dofasco used to just wait to see what Stelco settled their contract at and then gave that to their workers. So if I worked at Dofasco I would have no reason to join a union as I would be receiving the same benefit w/o the dues.

Be interesting to see what happens now.....

With steel contracts and ownership leaving this country at the rate they are it will be very interesting to watch.

 

[JohnLarue]

Just because you write something doesn't mean the arguments have any merit whatsoever. It is not a matter of opinion or discussion that union wages and benefits raise everybody's boat is is simply a FACT, not really open to debate. There are others, good solid boosts to the minimum wage also raises all wages above this. You are too self centred to see beyond your own situation. No wonder you don't like unions, every second word from you is I or me. Unions are about we. They are about what is good for the whole community not the selfish interests of one individual. Grow up, you still argue like a sophmore.

I am having a hard time writing this because I am laughing so fucking hard.
It is open to debate, for the simple reason that you have no reputable reference or study to quote.
What you are presenting as fact is simply Union Hall rhetoric & your own self-serving deluded opinion. Show me the proof, that unions increase my standard of living.
It ain't going to happen. Because it just is not correct

I am self centered?
Unions are all about we?
Holy fuck thats hilarious.
OK. We are up to our necks in garbage, yet one group seems to feel their interest is far more important than all others.
They do not give a rats ass about anyone else but themselves & are arguably the most self centered group in the city.
If they had any concern for anyone else in the community they would not force the public to live in filth. Because it does not fit into thier self-centered objectives, they chosse not to concern thmselfs with anyone else but themselves
They would also not allow children to be adversely affected because of a labor dispute. Yet city pools remain closed. Shame on them


As I pointed out earlier when unionists get cornered on an issue & have no logical response they tend resort to personal insults.
Thanks for proving my point.

Next myth you would like discredited?

 

[Mrbig1949]

The Defasco effect is exactly how it works

Well my understanding is that Dofasco used to just wait to see what Stelco settled their contract at and then gave that to their workers. So if I worked at Dofasco I would have no reason to join a union as I would be receiving the same benefit w/o the dues.

Be interesting to see what happens now.....

Although today it is not quite as direct as that. The 70% of people that are not in unions are not anti-union, they simply have not yet had an opportunity to join a union. You think it is a matter of walking in the front door and saying hands up if you want a union? It is a massive undertaking but no I do happen to believe the effect of union wages has an overwhelming effect on the wages benefits and working conditions of others. Some of these Adam Smith "the invisible hand of the market" jokers don't seem to realize that the unions SET the market wage. One of my favourite bumper stickers said "Unions:the People who brought you the weekend." They might well have said UNIONS: The people who brought you Public Education, medicare, pensions, EI, Workers health and Safety, and on and on.

If you love Canada, thank a union leader.

 

[blackrock13]

Although today it is not quite as direct as that. The 70% of people that are not in unions are not anti-union, they simply have not yet had an opportunity to join a union. You think it is a matter of walking in the front door and saying hands up if you want a union? It is a massive undertaking but no I do happen to believe the effect of union wages has an overwhelming effect on the wages benefits and working conditions of others. Some of these Adam Smith "the invisible hand of the market" jokers don't seem to realize that the unions SET the market wage. One of my favourite bumper stickers said "Unions:the People who brought you the weekend." They might well have said UNIONS: The people who brought you Public Education, medicare, pensions, EI, Workers health and Safety, and on and on.

If you love Canada, thank a union leader.

My god man. 70% don't want to be members, regardless of whether they had the chance to be or whether they are or are not anti-union. Maybe their stance is like mine, remember, I want unions around just not everywhere, all the time. You have no way of knowing if they haven't had that chance. You're just flapping your yap. You can't know that fact at all. It's quite possible that a good number of them told the unions to take a flying leap, Of course you'll deny this to your grave. (mistake #1)

I'm well aware of how much work goes into a union drive. I've seen it up close
(mistake #2). Unions didn't bring me weekends. I work when there's work to be done. Saturday and Sunday are just two consecutive days in the week and having Sundays off is next useless. Most businesses are closed. A whole lot of people work this way, even unionized people (mistake #3) You're getting lazy.

Now you're quoting bumper stickers. WEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

 

[JohnLarue]

If you love Canada, thank a union leader.

Please don't make me puke
I love Canada, but its certainly not the unions who made this country great.
Again taking credit where it is not due.

 

[blackrock13]

It must be from another bumper sticker.

WEEEEE!!!

Now you questioning my love for my country.

 

[Mrbig1949]

Welcome to Canada (Union Made)

It must be from another bumper sticker.

WEEEEE!!!

Now you questioning my love for my country.

I gave you the list,

Welcome to Canada (AFL-CIO-CLC)

 

[blackrock13]

I gave you the list,

Welcome to Canada (AFL-CIO-CLC)

Wha?

 

[Mrbig1949]

Exactly

Wha?

Exactly-You should know, look it up,

 

[blackrock13]

Exactly-You should know, look it up,

if what your saying is that our quality of life is a result of the presence of these labour association then you delusion are getting critical, but thanks for my morning smile.

Remember folks, unions brought you weekends.