Sick Days
- Thread starter buckwheat1
- Start date
How about they fire you "without cause" and provide you with the legal minimum severance.Scarey said:
Mrbig1949 said:
The employer is paying your lazy, self entitled, socialist ass. There is employment law. It.s the ESA. It does not entitle anyone to paid sick days.
If you have same it is either due to collective bargaining or the generosity of your employer. I don't give sick days, but I nearly always pay my employees when they are sick or have family obligations. I'm not required to pay you while you're on the golf course.
Hurricane Hank said:
That's the easy way out, and a personal favourite. It's just money. Firing "with cause" is almost never worth it for the employer.
The point of accumulated sick days
Accumulated sick days were supported by employers to offer an incentive not to stay off lightly. Those who have them basically don't use them. They are accumulated to cover catstrophic illness at full pay and to accumulate a gratuity at the end of a career.
bigdik said:The employer is paying your lazy, self entitled, socialist ass. There is employment law. It.s the ESA. It does not entitle anyone to paid sick days.
If you have same it is either due to collective bargaining or the generosity of your employer. I don't give sick days, but I nearly always pay my employees when they are sick or have family obligations. I'm not required to pay you while you're on the golf course.
Accumulated sick days were supported by employers to offer an incentive not to stay off lightly. Those who have them basically don't use them. They are accumulated to cover catstrophic illness at full pay and to accumulate a gratuity at the end of a career.
Mrbig1949 said:
That's just union bullshit. Sick days are just that. You're sick, you're not penalized. There is short and long term disability insurance in place in any workplace that has accumulated sick days. There should be no reward for not being sick. How's the picket line treating you? Maybe you'd like some of the City of Toronto terbites to drop off their trash or bring the kids by for camp?
I am a good employee.I have a clean record, help out over and above when needed, provide valuable input for growth and get along well with employees.My remark about legal action was in response to a remark made by a snotty manager, and I stand by it.
I am an employee who is very easy to get along with but when your manager lumps you in with all the turds who do abuse the system after knowing your personal work ethic and contributions I've finally said "suck it".Someone had mentioned 10 days being the limit.Correct you are, and I know where exactly where all the legal limits are.My life has gotten much easier in that specific aspect .Nuff said
I have noticed a few comments from what I can only assume are from business owners here on the board.I spent 14 years in a union and 8freelance.For the first 14 years I met lazy unionists and very hardworking unionists.In the last 8 I've met some very good, fair employers and I've also met some greedy,corrupt,C%cksuckers who would cut your throat for a nickel.Both are out there.Your only as good as your last job, any one who says otherwise is very naive about the nature of business.
I am an employee who is very easy to get along with but when your manager lumps you in with all the turds who do abuse the system after knowing your personal work ethic and contributions I've finally said "suck it".Someone had mentioned 10 days being the limit.Correct you are, and I know where exactly where all the legal limits are.My life has gotten much easier in that specific aspect .Nuff said
I have noticed a few comments from what I can only assume are from business owners here on the board.I spent 14 years in a union and 8freelance.For the first 14 years I met lazy unionists and very hardworking unionists.In the last 8 I've met some very good, fair employers and I've also met some greedy,corrupt,C%cksuckers who would cut your throat for a nickel.Both are out there.Your only as good as your last job, any one who says otherwise is very naive about the nature of business.
I sense none of you have had an illness or disability. Actuarial stats show that 1 of 3 individuals will have cause to be off work a minimum of 3 months after age 50 due to illness or accident. Over 10 employeess per 1000 employees go on long term disability each year following 3 months of illness/accident. Sick days or not we stand a good chance of something happening to us during our working careers. i have been off twice due to operations with each absence lasting 6-7 weeks before returning to work.
Have all the sick days you want but when they run out what have you got?
Have all the sick days you want but when they run out what have you got?
A clue
It would be nice if you had a clue what you are talking about. LTD IS NEVER FULL PAY HALF AT BEST. SICK DAYS ARE FULL PAY AND YOU must use them first before LTD clicks in so they are a full pay insurance policy which is why public employees use very few. They save them against long term illness or if not needed a buyout at the end.Seems to me you are spouting "management bullshit". I only dealt with this on a daily basis in the union so I just might know the rules. What you think there "should be" has no relationship to what is in place all across the public sector. Get over it.
bigdik said:
It would be nice if you had a clue what you are talking about. LTD IS NEVER FULL PAY HALF AT BEST. SICK DAYS ARE FULL PAY AND YOU must use them first before LTD clicks in so they are a full pay insurance policy which is why public employees use very few. They save them against long term illness or if not needed a buyout at the end.Seems to me you are spouting "management bullshit". I only dealt with this on a daily basis in the union so I just might know the rules. What you think there "should be" has no relationship to what is in place all across the public sector. Get over it.
Mrbig1949 said:
The STD and LTD coverage is variable. It would be bargained for.
For example, a company I know has STD of 100% for the first 6 weeks after sick days run out. Declines to 60% at week 40. After 52 weeks, LTD kicks in at about 50%.
These are the standard plan there, and are adjustable. The STD can be kept at 80% by directing more premiums at it. Same with LTD.
This is available to all employees, no need to build up a large bank of days. The trick is that is only used by those who really need it, so the risk sharing effects of insurance work. (Ie larger coverage, lower costs compared to everyone having to cover the risk all themselves.)
In the bankable sick days scheme, employees get paid for sick days whether they use them or not. That's not really insurance. It's a great perk, but not so good at covering for illness and disability. If you run out of sick days, but all your coworkers have them but don't need them, you are out of luck.
Mrbig1949 said:
He who pays decides how much they want to offer to attract the type of employee they want. He who works or otherwise performs a service decides what he is willing to accept as compensation.
Works for me.
PS buckwheat - how exactly does the union know how often people are going to be sick such that they can negotiate exact days ?
Wouldn't the brotheren be better off to negotiate a modest number of sick days with a doctors note plus short-term disability insurance that kicks in for things like sugery or serious illness ?Mrbig1949 said:
And why, pray tell, are our cities bankrupt? It's not "management bullshit". It's "Capitalist Swine" bullshit. I have to earn every cent. I'm all for being fair to the workers, but there really does need to be a limit. As a "public sector" union worker perhaps you should know where your dinner comes from? Why are Chrysler and GM in the situation they are? Payroll costs! Yet all along their union has resisted concessions. Guess what? If your employer no longer has the ability to pay you there isn't a long line of employers that will approach the package you have now. If your employer needs concessions to survive, you, the worker needs to consider your alternatives should they no longer be able to afford you. Would you like fries with that?
STD insurance is expensive teh problem with the city is mismanagement with the sick day money if you listen closely they say $250 million underfunded liability which means they haven't put the money aside for these people.
They are now offering STD disability to get rid of tehere underfunded liability called sick days.
Where I work we get sick days and no STD however we have LTD wich kicks in after 120 days and one gets 60% less taxes on the amount received.
LTD is very hard to get. My employeer does sometimes ask for a doctors not but the employeer pays for it.
They are now offering STD disability to get rid of tehere underfunded liability called sick days.
Where I work we get sick days and no STD however we have LTD wich kicks in after 120 days and one gets 60% less taxes on the amount received.
LTD is very hard to get. My employeer does sometimes ask for a doctors not but the employeer pays for it.
What's clear is that there is no standard of how ann employer treats an employee's time off for illness. In construction and other short-term, project based work the no-show, no-pay principle ususally applies. Its simple logic's hard to argue, but you get infectious, injury-hobbled people showing up, to get full pay just for surviving the day. Management has to either 'police' the sick back home payless, wink at the practice, or play nurse and send them home w/ pay.
Long term, 'permanent employment' needs a different system, because it needs to retain employees, who do get sick over the years. No show, no pay has the good ones on Monster.com all the time. Train points out that sickdays can be used by employers to attract and keep better ones, although it keeps the bad ones too. Whether you managed by outside insurance or inside staff, there are quotas and standards and doctor's notes required. More policing.
In either case, and whether there's a union or not, there's gonna be bargaining involved. Ther'll be a slacker wanting pay for taking his kid's hockey team to an away game, and there'll be a hard worker truly sick up against some rule that cuts her off. And on contract/hiring there'll be someone looking for the 'better' sickdays they think they can get instead of the richer paydays they think they can't. So we add jaw-jaw to policing.
This stuff's about getting along together to do productive work. That's about negociating, whether it's the union contract, looking the other way while he takes a half-day to get braces for his kid, or figuring out how the company deals with the twenty-year guy's cancer. Sometimes, it's about changing what you thought was a good idea, but now see the failings of. Opinions will differ, sometimes bitterly. Just like war's 'diplomacy by other means' a strike is just the negociating process at it's bitterest end.
It's never ever gonna be about one right way and a simple rule. Always talk, and always policing will be required, and there'll always be someone looking to 'improve' their situation to keep the process going.
Long term, 'permanent employment' needs a different system, because it needs to retain employees, who do get sick over the years. No show, no pay has the good ones on Monster.com all the time. Train points out that sickdays can be used by employers to attract and keep better ones, although it keeps the bad ones too. Whether you managed by outside insurance or inside staff, there are quotas and standards and doctor's notes required. More policing.
In either case, and whether there's a union or not, there's gonna be bargaining involved. Ther'll be a slacker wanting pay for taking his kid's hockey team to an away game, and there'll be a hard worker truly sick up against some rule that cuts her off. And on contract/hiring there'll be someone looking for the 'better' sickdays they think they can get instead of the richer paydays they think they can't. So we add jaw-jaw to policing.
This stuff's about getting along together to do productive work. That's about negociating, whether it's the union contract, looking the other way while he takes a half-day to get braces for his kid, or figuring out how the company deals with the twenty-year guy's cancer. Sometimes, it's about changing what you thought was a good idea, but now see the failings of. Opinions will differ, sometimes bitterly. Just like war's 'diplomacy by other means' a strike is just the negociating process at it's bitterest end.
It's never ever gonna be about one right way and a simple rule. Always talk, and always policing will be required, and there'll always be someone looking to 'improve' their situation to keep the process going.
STD and LTD can be a real good deal if shopped for wisely and set up as a group/company package.
As some of you know, I'm self-employed and insured up to my neck for good reasons. Since I'm a staff of one, I pay a premium, possibly 10%. As a good shopper and negotiator, I 've been able to get packages way better the general packages mentioned here. I've called on them once in 20 years and have been paid back in full with regards to money spent and money returned. Group policies are cheaper in the long run and can offer really good coverage at very good rates. My cost? 2% of my income and pssst, it deductible, cheaper still. It's cost to others, nil.
The downside is I had to do it myself.
One question, what's the going rate for union due relative to you pay, as a percentage,1%, 2%, 5%, 10%?
Give me an idea. Taxable? I have no idea.
As some of you know, I'm self-employed and insured up to my neck for good reasons. Since I'm a staff of one, I pay a premium, possibly 10%. As a good shopper and negotiator, I 've been able to get packages way better the general packages mentioned here. I've called on them once in 20 years and have been paid back in full with regards to money spent and money returned. Group policies are cheaper in the long run and can offer really good coverage at very good rates. My cost? 2% of my income and pssst, it deductible, cheaper still. It's cost to others, nil.
The downside is I had to do it myself.
One question, what's the going rate for union due relative to you pay, as a percentage,1%, 2%, 5%, 10%?
Give me an idea. Taxable? I have no idea.
in most unions it works out to about twice your hour wages per month, however some have a percentage from 1.2% - 4% depending on your union.
OJ;
I also don't want the walking wound and typhoid-Mary's showing up for work. They don't work well and affect others.
I've been occasionally called upon to to head crews of 35-50 bodies and it doesn't take long to tag the dog fuckers especially with the Monday/Friday flu, but I rather have a guy show up, drag ass and be sent home or say can't do it, than just roll over and hit the alarm button. I'll know he tried and he''ll get the first call next time. These guys I want working for me.
The best advise I give people thinking of freelancing or start their own business is get coverage now while yourstarting because your healthy with no history and it's cheap. It gets harder and more expensive later, but hey, they've got to do it by themselves and that 's the rub. A lot of people want others to give to them.
People that say STD, LTD, and other plans really haven't done their homework well.
I also don't want the walking wound and typhoid-Mary's showing up for work. They don't work well and affect others.
I've been occasionally called upon to to head crews of 35-50 bodies and it doesn't take long to tag the dog fuckers especially with the Monday/Friday flu, but I rather have a guy show up, drag ass and be sent home or say can't do it, than just roll over and hit the alarm button. I'll know he tried and he''ll get the first call next time. These guys I want working for me.
The best advise I give people thinking of freelancing or start their own business is get coverage now while yourstarting because your healthy with no history and it's cheap. It gets harder and more expensive later, but hey, they've got to do it by themselves and that 's the rub. A lot of people want others to give to them.
People that say STD, LTD, and other plans really haven't done their homework well.
I say I'll stick with my 24 sick days and LTD plan and 3 lieu days a year.
How much does STD pay out when one is sick and how long does it take to collect it?
How much does STD pay out when one is sick and how long does it take to collect it?
buckwheat1 said:
I'd stick with that too! Jeez, they're paying you to stay home almost as much as they are to come in. Typically there are 260 work days per year. Assuming 4 weeks vacation, you're off 56 days with public holidays, more if you're public sector. Where do I apply?
