Should George Bush be hanged as well?

Should George Bush be hanged?

  • Yes

    Votes: 90 62.9%
  • No

    Votes: 53 37.1%

  • Total voters
    143

Jennifer_

New member
I have a problem with anyone being hanged...

I think Bush is an idiot pure and simple - it's the puppeteers behind him that I fear have more sinister motivations - however these motivations could not be labeled as "war crimes".


Here's a different perspective for you.

I had a regular cab driver during the Iraq war. He was from Tikrit - Sadam's home town.

He escaped Iraq on foot a few years prior and made his way to Canada.

We would chat daily about the war, as I had somewhat of a CNN addiction and a keen interest in not only in CNN's pro-American side of the story - but also in the Iraqi perspective.

He told me stories of what his life in Iraq was like. Told me stories of Saddam's brother who would walk into the street and chose women for his men to bring to him so he could rape them.

Two of his brothers were killed at the hands of Saddam's army.

His family remained in Iraq and he tried to speak with them daily. They were terrified and so was he.

As the initial stage of "Operation Iraqi Freedom" was coming to a close -the day after statue of Saddam came down my driver picked me up clearly in a state of bliss.

On the front seat beside him was a copy of TIME magazine with a picture of Bush on the cover. He kissed the magazine repeatedly and called Bush an angel sent by God.

I'm not sure of his ethnic background - I would assume he was a Shiite.


Saddam Hussein was an evil man who ordered terror and genocide unto his own people. He needed to be outed from power - although the method used to "out" him was wrong. I'm not sure of how else it could've been done.

Clearly the Bush and Co.'s motivations to invade Iraq were not to "free" the Iraqi's from terror - if this were the case we would see action in other areas of the world where people were/are being subjected to genocide and terror. Darfur and Rwanda would be given the same level of priority as Iraq if Bush's motivations were simply humanitarian.

Clearly the motivations were not related to terrorism as the terrorists threatening the US were not from Iraq.

Bush is guilty in lying to his people and to the UN about the real reasons why this invasion was necessary in his (and in his advisors') eyes. Saddam Hussein, terrorism, and fictional WMDs were simply a mirage.

These motivations to invade were undoubtedly self-serving - be they economic or revenge on behalf of Bush Sr. "Why we Fight" is an excellent documentary detailing the impact of war on the US's economy - without even getting into the oil debate or Haliburton contracts, etc.


The high death toll resulting from this war was clearly due to poor planning and execution. The war in Iraq was/is clearly unjust - but Bush's actions cannot be considered to be "war crimes". Hussein's most-certainly were.

However, hanging is still a bit too barbaric for my liking regardless of how evil one's actions may have been.
 

Cobster

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I'm impressed (quite a bit).
 

NewYorkSamurai

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tboy said:
Well, that's where you are 100% wrong my friend. War crimes are not based on who won, but what went on during the war. The U.S. is constantly charging and convicting soldiers who break international laws which includes wrongful/intentional killing of civilians etc. For eg: after the second world war the german high command and others were tried and convicted of war crimes involving the extermination of the jewish population and others, executing without trial prisoners of war etc. At no time were they tried for the civilians they killed by bombing london, because that is an unfortunate side effect of modern warfare.

As stated Sodamninsane killed millions during his reign of terror, not during war, but to exterminate a population that he believed religiously different thinks than he did.

Now tell me, what war crimes has Bush committed? 1) The US was asked to aid Kuwait kick Iraq out of their country, so that isn't a crime. 2) The UN imposed restrictions on what Iraq could and couldn't do (which SH started ignoring) and BTW, here's another history lesson for you: after the end of the first world war, there were restrictions placed on Germany that limited their ability to wage war, but they TOO started ignoring these restrictions and do you know what the result was? I'll give you a hint: WWII....

So, while it is a little dodgey why the US invaded Iraq and why they are still there, but someone somewhere MUST get rid of these pisspot dictators everywhere and the UN certainly won't do it. BTW: the US are still in Iraq at the request of the duly elected Iraqi government, or so I understand....(someone correct me if I am wrong).

See the thing is, here in the free world you are allowed by law to say things like "Bush should be hanged" if the Saddam's of the world were in power, you'd probably be dead already......capice?
I couldnt agree more with all of that.
 

Gyaos

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Aug 17, 2001
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root11 said:
Gyaos,
Did you short the stock market yet? If the dems get their way (raise taxes, force socialism on the population) go short, not long in the market. Economy will most likely tank. Root
Wrong on the "raise taxes" part. More like, putting back taxes that Bush Jr. cut for ONLY the wealthy, while the poor and small business are fee'd to death. Fill your tank. Dems aren't raising, just putting back what was taken away from the 1999 and 2000 economy that the Republicans tried to squash back then too.

Gyaos.
 

papasmerf

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Gyaos said:
Wrong on the "raise taxes" part. More like, putting back taxes that Bush Jr. cut for ONLY the wealthy, while the poor and small business are fee'd to death. Fill your tank. Dems aren't raising, just putting back what was taken away from the 1999 and 2000 economy that the Republicans tried to squash back then too.

Gyaos.
Watch NYS to see the trend. I live in the higest taxedcounty in the US so watch Erie County in NYS and see what dems will do
 

Gyaos

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Aug 17, 2001
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papasmerf said:
Watch NYS to see the trend. I live in the higest taxedcounty in the US so watch Erie County in NYS and see what dems will do
M.O.R.O.N and Bingo was his nameo! If you can't make money in a bear market, then you're generally stupid. Have a nice day! :D

Gyaos.
 

papasmerf

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Gyaos said:
M.O.R.O.N and Bingo was his nameo! If you can't make money in a bear market, then you're generally stupid. Have a nice day! :D

Gyaos.
You sir have to manners of a pig and the brain of a woodpecker
 

WoodPeckr

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May 29, 2002
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Lynn said:
I think Bush is an idiot pure and simple - it's the puppeteers behind him that I fear have more sinister motivations - however these motivations could not be labeled as "war crimes".
Lynn posed an interesting perspective.

Here's another take on what is really going on and it again deals with the Empire that Dubya works for and of course the MIC that really decided all this awhile back.
Another interesting ME perspective......


The Black Bull died today

By Mirza Yawar Baig

12/30/06 "Information Clearing House"-- -- They did it. They gave this Ummah a sacrifice on the day of Eid ul Adha. What an unforgettable Eid!! A human sacrifice. Not a sheep or goat. What a message!! Wow!! What a powerful message that I am sure has shaken all the thrones of the puppets who are watching the events. Poor puppets!!

Saddam Hussain, they say, is dead. The news reporting is one good example of the pimp press in full swing. If anyone who is not suffering from amnesia can recall, 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' was a phrase coined by American foreign policy experts to lie to their own nation and the world and justify their invasion of Iraq. Then their lie was exposed but by then their objective of looting Iraq's oil had also been accomplished. They had control of the oil fields. And in the process a few hundred thousand Iraqis died at the hands of Americans; well that is inevitable - collateral damage. As they say Weapons of Mass Deception - which of course the pimp press is responsible for and continues to perpetrate on the world.

Death is not the "item" in the news. It is the death of the myth of American justice and freedom. So now we can all breathe freely as we see the true nature of the animal before us. Even those who continued to insist on living in doubt can deny it no longer. But watch out!! This news item and a million like it, floating on the net or shouting themselves hoarse on the TV are all focused on trying to make you and me distracted from the reality of what we are seeing here. So they talk about how brutal Saddam was and how many people he killed and how he 'started' the Iraq-Iran war.

The issue of course is none of those things. If these were in fact issues, then we would see Bush and all his cronies and most of their puppets sitting on thrones in their gilded prisons, swinging from the gallows long before Saddam came anywhere near them. The issue is America's right to invade a sovereign nation. Any country's right to invade and occupy another sovereign nation and loot its wealth. That is the issue. Are we, the people of the world saying that it is the right of America or anyone with the power to do so, to take by force what they want from whoever they want? Are we, the people of the world, saying that it is the right of the rapist to rape? Are we, the people of the world, saying that it is the right of the bandit or the highway robber to hold you up and take from you what he wishes by force? Because in my opinion, by remaining silent, that is exactly what we will be saying. You decide what you want to do. I have already made my decision as you can see.

The pimp press and all those who it serves want you and me to forget these issues. And they believe that if they make enough noise, we will.

Remember O People! The name of the animal is Empire. And you and I have a choice. Sell your soul and bow your head in submission to the King. Or raise your head and it will be cut off. It's as simple as that. Freedom is as it will be defined for you. Justice is as will be given to you. Democracy is as is approved for you. If you elect Hamas as your party of choice, that is not democracy. It will be sabotaged and ever willing pimps will be put in the place of the people you really wanted. If you have any sense you will see the writing on the wall and next time around you will elect Abbas. If not the Empire has unlimited power, money and people to enforce its will. All that will happen is that a 100 of you will die for every American soldier who comes to enforce the will of the Empire. That is a price that the Empire can and will extract. After all it did not get to where it is today by being made of sugar candy, did it?

Resources are for those who can take them and use them. Where they happen to be located is immaterial. Their owners are still the same. Those who come in the way because they happen to be located physically on those resources have a choice; move away quietly and maybe you will even be paid something. If not, you will be moved by force...not sideways...but 6 feet below. Now even the dumbest in the world should be able to understand that, no??

But no!! There are those who are dumber than the dumb. They are those who believe in their right to determine how they will live, by what code. They are those who believe that it is their right to live by their laws in their lands without apology to anyone. They are those who believe in their right to choose who will lead them. They are those who believe that foreigners can't dictate to them, who they should elect to their councils. They are those who believe in their right to use what they own, to sell it to who they want, in whatever currency they choose to sell and at whatever price. They are those who believe that it is the right of the owner of a property to decide to sell or not and at what price. They believe that the buyer can't dictate those terms to them. They are those who believe that all humans are equal irrespective of race, color or religion. They believe that a lack of melanin in the skin is not a sign of human superiority just as a surfeit of it is not. They believe that if this life is to be lived, then it must be lived with honor. They believe that a death with honor is far more preferable than a life without honor. They believe that enslavement is in the mind. And that until they accept in their minds and hearts that they are slaves, they cannot be enslaved. And such people will never be enslaved. No matter how many they kill.

What they don't understand is that every head that is cut off to terrorize only strengthens the resolve that injustice must be removed from the face of the earth. And whatever price is to be paid, is worth the result. The plant of justice is fertilized by the blood of martyrs.

As I write this post I am reminded of the Arabic legend of the White Bull: At Thawr il Abyadh

Once upon a time three bulls lived in the forest. One white, one brown and one black. They were brothers and lived together in harmony. In that forest also lived a tiger who had his eye on the bulls. But every time he attacked one of them the others came to his aid and together they drove the tiger away.

The tiger decided that he needed to change his strategy. So one day when the Black Bull was away, he went to the other two and said, "You know, the Black Bull is black and dirty and evil. Why do you keep him with you? His is a disgrace to you. You are beautiful and noble. If the Black Bull is no longer there, you will have all the grazing to yourself. He takes away your food and adds no value to you." The two bulls listened to the tiger's spiel and said, "Well, you know, he is our brother. What can we do?"

"You need not do anything at all," said the tiger. "I am your friend. I will do what needs to be done. Just don't come to the aid of the Black Bull when he calls you." The others agreed.

The next day, they heard the voice of the Black Bull calling for help in anguish and fear. They listened to him and went back to their grazing. Gradually the calls stopped. The two brothers could not look each other in the eye but then, nice green grass wipes away memories and after a little while it was as if the Black Bull never existed.

Then one day the tiger came to the White Bull when he was alone and said, "So are you happy with the advise I gave you? Didn't I advise you well? Now here is another advise. You are the real king of the forest. You are White and clean and pure and holy and beautiful. You are wise and good. You deserve to live in solitary splendor like a king. Not with some dirty brown trash who you have to share your food with. Why do you need him? He is a liability and an embarrassment to you."

"Well, what should I do?"

"You know the score. Nothing at all. I am there to take care of everything for you. Just relax."

Next day, the White Bull heard the dying screams of the Brown Bull and closed his ears and went back to his grazing.

The White Bull lived for a few days all by himself, grazing where he wanted and drinking from the clean streams of the forest. Then one morning the tiger came again. From the look in his eyes, the White Bull knew that this visit was different. All his life flashed before his eyes. He recalled the time when the three brothers stood together, shoulder to shoulder. Then he recalled all the incidents since then. As the tiger sat before him, not in any hurry, knowing that the result was pre-determined, the White Bull said to him, "I have one last wish. Will you grant it to me?"

"Anything at all my friend", said the tiger.

The White Bull then climbed a hill and when he got to the top of it, he called out to the people of the forest, "O! People, I do not die today. I died the day the Black Bull died."
 

MuffinMuncher

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Oct 3, 2001
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stinkynuts said:
I think George Bush killed more people than Saddam Hussein by going into Iraq, without a legitimate reason.

The reason the US went into Iraq was supposedly because Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, but we all now know that was a lie. Bush wanted to start a war for more personal reasons. The result is that thousands of American soldiers have died as well as Iraqi civilians. Though he broke no law, technically his actions have resulted in deaths that were unwarranted.
You are a complete moron. Whether or not you agree with Bush or the war, Saddam killed millions of his own people WITHOUT a war. Genocide. To compare the two situation shows how stupid and ignorant you truly are about world events.

Instead, you use your hatred of Bush or the Americans as an excuse to advocate assassination? As you said above, "he broke no law".

You perfectly illustrate what's wrong with the world. Instead of getting your facts straight and making a rational, lucid and informed post, you do EXACTLY what you claim to be outraged about and advocate the perpetuation of violence for no good reason. You're a hypocrite, and worse yet, you're an unstable, uneducated and reactionary hypocrite.

I'd hate to see how you react when someone takes your parking space or gives you the finger in rush hour traffic.
 

MuffinMuncher

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Oct 3, 2001
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Gyaos said:
Wrong on the "raise taxes" part. More like, putting back taxes that Bush Jr. cut for ONLY the wealthy, while the poor and small business are fee'd to death. Fill your tank. Dems aren't raising, just putting back what was taken away from the 1999 and 2000 economy that the Republicans tried to squash back then too.
This truly must be Take a Moron to TERB day...

The tax cuts are (a part of) what has helped reduce the federal deficit at a rate significantly greater than originally projected. They are what (in part) helped avert a serious recession in the last economic downturn, and are the cornerstone of sound fiscal policy which says you should keep money in the hands of those who will spend it.... NOT the government.

Furthermore, a fair tax (and tax CUT) policy recognizes that those who earn more (on average) pay the most tax (in dollars) and therefore should get the greatest relief. The poor are subsidized by the wealthy as it is by having an advantagous tax rate % substantially lower than the higher tiers. The poor dont put as much INTO the government coffers, so therefore they will benefit the least when the time comes to cut taxes. Economics 101.

This is why I no longer go near this forum. There really should be an IQ Test before you are allowed to post here.
 

Garrett

Hail to the king, baby.
Dec 18, 2001
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MuffinMuncher said:
Furthermore, a fair tax (and tax CUT) policy recognizes that those who earn more (on average) pay the most tax (in dollars) and therefore should get the greatest relief. The poor are subsidized by the wealthy as it is by having an advantagous tax rate % substantially lower than the higher tiers. The poor dont put as much INTO the government coffers, so therefore they will benefit the least when the time comes to cut taxes. Economics 101.
That is not economics 101. You have taken a biased measure of taxation and used it as the basis for comparison. You then add in lovely comparative statements such as "the poor will benefit the least when the time comes to cut taxes". "Benefit" is a complex subject, and it is pretty clear you do not have a lot of knowledge in this field. The fact you accuse other people of being morons is more than a little ironic.
 

basketcase

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neversayno said:
"He should of been sent to the Hague for a fair trial"

Keeping in mind that the USG tried to have Saddam assassinated while murdering innocent Iraqi's in the process - for that no trial was needed at all, fair or not.

As bad as Saddam was, he's a pussy cat compared to those who had him killed.
Why the hell would Iraqis send Saddam to Europe so the former Iraqi President/Dictator could be tried for crimes against Iraqis that took place in Iraq?

How the hell can anyone say that the Iraqi Judicial System is worse than Saddam ever was? (or was this intended to be about GWB - in which case, read muffinmunchers post 5 above this - #53)
 

train

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stinkynuts said:
I think George Bush killed more people than Saddam Hussein by going into Iraq, without a legitimate reason.

.

I don't think this statement is factually correct when you take into account the death toll with the war Iraq had with Iran and all the Shiites and Kurds he has killed in his own country.

What are the sources of your statements?
 

Cobster

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neversayno said:
?????????
3 days and all is quiet, you still waiting for a response? lol
 

Earl1

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Oct 11, 2006
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Yes and No

Well here are some analysis of what happened to Saddam.

Saddam conviction based on crime comitted in 1982 where some 142 persons presumably killed based on direct orders from saddam himself in retaliation of an attempt on his life where no direct involvement of USA or its regional allies in that event ever took place so they wont be mentioned in the trial and to bring their dirty involvement in saddam's activities.

The world knows saddam committed many other atrocities against his own people and his neighbouring countries but he was never tried or convicted towards these presumed atrocities where he could have been.

Why saddam was not tried for these alligations.

BECAUSE OF THE "CONTRAT"

1- SADDAM'S UNJUSTIFIED WAR WITH IRAN 1981-1989 WHERE MILLION PERSONS DIED AS A RESULT.

Answer: The war against iran was direct orders and involvement from USA and its allies in the region the arab gulf states, Jordan and israel prompted saddam to take the "CONTRACT" to fight iran as result of the rise of Islamic revolution in Iran that opposes USA and the west policies in the region and threatens similar islamic revolutions that may be destined in the area that could tumble USA supported regimes in the region and mainly to stop any potential shiaa influence in the region that may challenge the authority of sunni muslims in the muslim world who are considered allies of USA and in particulary the control over mekka and issuing fatwas in the muslim world that favours USA or at least is not hostile to its policies which may change the overall existance of USA influence over the arab population of 250 million and the 1.3 Billion muslims world wide.


2- SPRAYING OF THE KURDS, THOUSANDS KILLED IN THE PROCESS.

Answer: The kurds always was aiming for an independant state in the region of their natural existance where their land been divided among turky, iraq, iran and syria. The kurds been denied (and still denied) a separate state when sipspico agreement was drafted in 1917 where the future of the region was then determined and every one got a piece of land after the fall of Turkish empire.

Back in 1948 and immediatly after the end of ww11 USA and Uk came to an agreement that allowes USA to take care of what's called post ww11 world order particularly in regions that UK occupied. In the middle east USA was given the authourity by UK to maintain the political order and divissions of land set by UK due to financial hardship UK suffered after WW11 and its unability to maintain such order in its wide empire where independance have to be given to the counties of the region where USA should have the control of order through the newly formed united nation and through direct political interfering to maintain such order.

Being the case, USA will never allow the kurds to have thier state which may change the region's geogpolitical divission as set by UK and bring the region to an unwaranted conflict between the kurds and the countries sharing their lands and to prompt other ethnic minorities in the region to claim independance or separation in the region. USA have to contract maintaining that order and to keep status Coe in existance when it comes to the kurds situation. So Saddam again took the "CONTRACT" and acted under the USA authorization and supervision using poisonous GASES supplied by USA in particular from a company owned by Donald Rumsfeld to opress the kurds and prevent them from having their independant country.

3- INVASION OF KUWAIT, THOUSANDS KILLED AS RESULT AND BILLIONS OF $$$ LOST

Answer: Saddam, being the hit man for USA and its allies in the region and being some what successfull in maintaining some order in the region such as stopping the spread of shiaa influence to mainly iraq and then into other gulf states by fighting iran and preventing iran from becoming the godfather of islam instead of Egypt or Sauidi Arabia, and preventing the kurds from declaring their independant statehood, and supporting lebanese christians against lebanese shiaas and standing up to syria's polcies that is hostile to israel and allowing israel to bomb his nuke's program. Saddam felt that he has done great favours to USA and they may have a need for him for a greater role in the arab world. UNDER THAT ASSUMPTION, HE INVADES KUWAIT TO INCREASE HIS INFLUENCE AND WEALTH TO FURTER ACHIEVE GREAT THINGS TO SERVE USA INTERSTS IN THE REGION BUT AT BETTER PRICE.

But Saddam feeling like the spoiled kid of USA who can get away with every thing, missread the messages sent to him from USA if he ever invaded and occupied Kuwait that USA will not interfere if such invasion ever occur and USA told him ITS AN INTERNAL ARAB-ARAB CONFLICT AND IT WONT CONCERN US AT ALL similar to the situation in lebanon where syria was given the green light to send troops to lebanon and stay there.

So again saddam acting on his own this time, invades kuwait feeling confident that no one will question him when the world was just recovering from the fall of USSR and fall of berlin wall and USA is focusing in what is happening in Europe and USSR and the assurances he received from USA embassador to him that say "NO PROBLEM GO AHEAD AND INVADE KUWAIT".

USA gave saddam a blessing to invade kuwait in an attempt to convict and destroy him in the world openion and to end him after he done great deal of help to USA in the region where there is no further use for him. USA have no more "CONTRACTS" for him and he started acting independantly which causes great danger for the region geopolitics order and particulary for the OIL DOLLAR THAT KEEPS USA ECONOMY FLORISHING, which may lead to USA losing control over the region that been intrusted for by UK and Europe and rest of the world. In addition to this, saddam's continious threats to israel that prompted israel to continuously push USA to get rid of him. So saddam have to be stopped and contained and removed from power at all costs.

After kiking his ass in Desert storm from kuwait, USA don't want to rid off saddam by themselves using their army power, but they relied on any one who could including the shiaas or the kurds who took the "CONTRACT" to tumble saddam's regime but they misrably failed which resulted in thousands of shiaa and kurds died trying to tumble his regime.

USA, have to sanction him through the united nations which ultimatly iraqies have to pay the price where over 12 years of sanctions iraqies suffered the most and over ONE MILLION died most of them are children died because of lack of health care and infantry deseases USA and EUROPE stopped short of supplying medical supplies including food to iraqies.

Then as we all know, after saddam regime weakened due sanctions and the fall of USSR, USA with GWB as president invades iraq under false acquisations which lead to hundreds of thousands of iraqies dying and the destruction of iraq as a nation causing wide spread lawlessness, social and political mess and that may bring deadly civil war that may yet to kill millions of iraqies and it may spread to other counties in the region after saddam death.

So to the question will GWB have to be hanged, its only history can answer this question. In my openion if saddam have to be hanged once over the killing only 142 persons, I wonder how many times GWB have to be hanged over the killing over 600,000 iraqies and counting and over 3000 americans and counting as result of his invasion of iraq. lets not forgot the lives of millions who died as result of USA foreign policies in that region since 1989.

Will God forgive USA, hell no

Earl1:mad:
 

basketcase

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Dec 29, 2005
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Cobster said:
3 days and all is quiet, you still waiting for a response? lol
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/01/02/saddam.execution/index.html

cnn said:
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- U.S. officials reportedly tried to delay last week's execution of Saddam Hussein, fearing it would fuel perceptions the death of the former Iraqi dictator was more about Shiite retribution and less about justice.

Those fears seemed borne out by an amateur recording of Hussein's last moments.

It was a caution that fell on deaf ears, however, as Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, a Shiite, was determined to put Hussein to death before the beginning of the Eid al-Adha holiday.
...
At one point, according to Sami al-Askari, an aide to al-Maliki, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad suggested a delay of two weeks. But al-Maliki and his aides rejected that, citing security concerns and rumors of possible violence swirling around the capital. (Watch what transpired in the days before the execution Video)

Meanwhile, the Iraqi official said, the Americans asked for written documentation to make sure the execution was legal under the Iraqi constitution.
Like I said, Iraqi revenge, not an American plot.
 

Cobster

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train said:
I don't think this statement is factually correct when you take into account the death toll with the war Iraq had with Iran and all the Shiites and Kurds he has killed in his own country.

What are the sources of your statements?
Well, it could be factually correct, 'cause good ol Dubya has really fucked shit up now in this world.
We're all screwed geo-politically, regardless if your country is vocal about it or not.
It's become an us v.s. them world.
Muslims v.s. Christians/Jews.

Don't forget, you're either "with us, or against us".:rolleyes:
 

onthebottom

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bbking said:
I second that


bbk
But it's useful to remember how many whack jobs there are on this board.

OTB
 
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