Should Canada merge with Trump's America?

[WyattEarp]

Here's an interesting chart that displays the growth of Germany's export machine as a % of GDP. You can see what happens as the Euro is introduced. These huge experts relative to the economy have caused trade imbalances within Europe and with the World. Chronic trade imbalances cause instability. I can't think of any economists who think this is healthy and sustainable.

 

[WyattEarp]

Deindustrialization is not exactly a bad thing.
High income economies deindustrialize and shift focus to services as they grow.
It is a natural transition.

Good point. Too bad a cruise ship can't park near your home town and dump a couple thousand tourists off for the day.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Good point. Too bad a cruise ship can't park near your home town and dump a couple thousand tourists off for the day.

The alternative to manufacturing isn't tourism.

 

[JohnLarue]

The alternative to manufacturing isn't tourism.

The alternative to manufacturing isn't bureaucrat's in Ottawa sending emails to different govt departments, either

you can not export bureaucrat correspondence for hard currency

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/government-job-growth-rate-in-canada-vastly-outstrips-private-sector

Specifically, according to our new study, from 2019 to 2023 employment in the government sector (which includes federal, provincial and local governments nationwide) increased by 13.3 per cent compared to just 3.6 per cent in the private sector (including self-employment).

Moreover, during the four-year period, almost half of the total job growth in the Canadian economy took place in the government sector. As a result, the number of government jobs (as a share of total employment) increased by 21.1 per cent. In case you’re wondering, you can reasonably attribute this growth in government to the pandemic as most of the growth occurred post-COVID. As a result, government employment (again, as a share of total employment) in 2022 and 2023 was higher than at any point since the start of the fiscal reforms of the early 1990s.

So, why is this a problem?

Because the private sector pays for the public sector including the wages and salaries of government employees. And when you increase the size of the government-sector workforce, you increase the strain on government finances. If the share of workers employed by government continues to grow, the government must extract more money from the private sector to pay for a growing government wage bill—either in the form of higher taxes today or new debt that must be either repaid or financed indefinitely by future taxpayers. That’s the last thing taxpayers need, considering the state of government finances across the country. The federal government, for example, expects to run budget deficits of at least $20 billion for the next five years.

This raises serious questions about the health of the private sector in Canada and the effect of an increasingly expensive government wage bill on taxpayers who must ultimately foot the bill.

 

[WyattEarp]

The alternative to manufacturing isn't bureaucrat's in Ottawa sending emails to different govt departments, either

you can not export bureaucrat correspondence for hard currency

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/government-job-growth-rate-in-canada-vastly-outstrips-private-sector

The government can gin up some superficial growth through increasing government employment and increasing the population through immigration. If productivity doesn't increase, it means very little in the long run.

 

[mandrill]

Are you paying attention? I already noted Germany is a mercantilist monster. Germany's economy depends on 47% of GDP coming from exports. Since the introduction of the Euro, much of Western Europe has deindustrialized. When facing a mercantilist behemoh in your backyard, a flexible currency would have given a country some degree of defense. The economies of Spaina and Italy have turned hard to tourism but that has run into limits and local resistance.

Enough economics for you. Please don't tell us about some universal declaration that economists believe the EU and Euro are a success. The reality is they don't all believe that. The Financial Times routinely has some commentary that disputes this belief. Der Spiegel might have more support for what you are seeking. In any event, there are varying perspectives.

Note: Mercantilism is an economic system that aims to increase a country's wealth and power by limiting imports and promoting exports. The goal is to achieve a favorable balance of trade, which means the country exports more than it imports.

PS- Even some European leaders have bemoaned falling behind the U.S. economically the last twenty years. I don't know how describe that merely as "ups and downs".

In which case, wouldn't more countries be pulling out of the EU?????.....

 

[mandrill]

The government can gin up some superficial growth through increasing government employment and increasing the population through immigration. If productivity doesn't increase, it means very little in the long run.

Better tell Ottawa that, Earp. Sounds like you're smarter than the Canadian government. Or the Tories because they don't put that view forward either....

 

[mandrill]

Are you paying attention? I already noted Germany is a mercantilist monster. Germany's economy depends on 47% of GDP coming from exports. Since the introduction of the Euro, much of Western Europe has deindustrialized.

Most of America has deindustrialized as well. Is that the EU's fault?

 

[WyattEarp]

In which case, wouldn't more countries be pulling out of the EU?????.....

Honestly, I think they owe Germany too much money. Surely, you have seen more skepticism politically from the larger members.

 

[WyattEarp]

Most of America has deindustrialized as well. Is that the EU's fault?

Mandrill, this has to be probably one of the worst attempts at diversion on the forum. Every economy has unique strengths, weaknesses and challenges so trying to go down the"what about" path is unproductive to the discussion.

Let U.S. superior growth vis-a-vis Europe and German export charts speak for themselves. Something's not working in the EU.

 

[WyattEarp]

Better tell Ottawa that, Earp. Sounds like you're smarter than the Canadian government. Or the Tories because they don't put that view forward either....

I think the Tories are and it will be louder next year. I don't think you're a good listener when it comes to politics.

I and others don't have to be smarter than Ottawa. We just have to be aware.

 

[mandrill]

Mandrill, this has to be probably one of the worst attempts at diversion on the forum. Every economy has unique strengths, weaknesses and challenges so trying to go down the"what about" path is unproductive to the discussion.

Let U.S. superior growth vis-a-vis Europe and German export charts speak for themselves. Something's not working in the EU.

Yeah. Just look at how well Detroit's doing.

 

[mandrill]

Mandrill, this has to be probably one of the worst attempts at diversion on the forum. Every economy has unique strengths, weaknesses and challenges so trying to go down the"what about" path is unproductive to the discussion.

Let U.S. superior growth vis-a-vis Europe and German export charts speak for themselves. Something's not working in the EU.

https://www.cbi.org.uk/media/1504/arguments-for-and-against-the-uks-european-union-membership.pdf

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The alternative to manufacturing isn't bureaucrat's in Ottawa sending emails to different govt departments, either

you can not export bureaucrat correspondence for hard currency

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/commentary/government-job-growth-rate-in-canada-vastly-outstrips-private-sector

Both public and private sector jobs can simultaneously grow and are not mutually exclusive.
The public sector employees are also tax payers.

 

[JohnLarue]

Both public and private sector jobs can simultaneously grow and are not mutually exclusive.

Once again you have missed the point
public sector jobs require funding by the private sector.
private sector.do not require funding by the public sector .

one is dependant on the other
if the dependant sector public outgrows the private sector. it causes serous long term economic problems
especially double digit growth public 13.3% vs 3.6% in the private sector.

This is not sustainable

in addition, the private sector crates economic profit including hard currency trade
the public sector ..recycles some tax dollars very inefficiently and creates money pits which destroy economic profit

in addition, the growth in the public sector jobs has been deficit financed for a decade

This is not only unsustainable, it irresponsible and very risky

The public sector employees are also tax payers.

get back to us with that argument when they are self sustaining

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

private sector.do not require funding by the public sector .

Public sector jobs require funding from the government. Not the private sector.
The public sector in return provides everything from infrastructure to tax incentives, to the private sector.
It is deficit financing that affords you the quality of life you have.
The private sector does not do anything to better the lives of the common citizen.
They only live to serve the interest of the shareholder.
Trickle down economics does not work.

 

[JohnLarue]

Public sector jobs require funding from the government. Not the private sector.

where do think the govt gets the funds from ?
the private sector

The public sector in return provides everything from infrastructure to tax incentives, to the private sector.

tax incentives ?
they are a partial offset to a tax burden . that is not economic profit

infrastructure? Have you seen a 13.3% improvement in infrastructure?
Nope

It is deficit financing that affords you the quality of life you have.

that is pure nonsense and economic gibberish

no one including govt can continue borrowing in perpetuity

The private sector does not do anything to better the lives of the common citizen.

more nonsense, with the smell of putrid Marxism

how's that laptop you are posting form working for you?

They only live to serve the interest of the shareholder.

the shareholder interests are not served unless the customers / clints interests are served first

try thinking about your next meal.
you do not get to eat that meal or any other meals unless shareholders put their capital at risk in order to bring that meal to you
you would have frozen / staved to death without capitalism and fossil fuels

Trickle down economics does not work.

it seems to keep you well fed and surfing the internet

look around you, the socialist experiment in Canada has failed
and its left behind a god awful mess

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

where do think the govt gets the funds from ?
the private sector
how's that laptop you are posting form working for you?
it seems to keep you well fed and surfing the internet

Taxes are government revenue, not private sector funding.
The laptop I am posting from is a for profit product sold to me.
That is not a service.
Yes, I am well fed.
What about the ones who aren't? What does trickle down economics do for them?
Nothing. So it does not work.
The government aka public sector is what keeps those people fed and healthy.
They are also the ones who help us have a good quality of life - free healthcare, roads, infrastructure and so on.

 

[JohnLarue]

Taxes are government revenue, not private sector funding.

where do think the govt gets the government revenue from ?
the private sector
do you have a mental blind spot about where the money originated from ?

The laptop I am posting from is a for profit product sold to me.

hmm
So would you agree the the private sector participant who provided you with a product you could not cope without has bettered your life ?

or are you still shackled to this Marxist rhetoric ?

The private sector does not do anything to better the lives of the common citizen.

That is not a service.

Surfing the internet?
Yes that is a service., provided to you by a service provider for a profit

Yes, I am well fed.

And you should thank the profit seeking private sector participants for that fact
Each and every time you dine.
without them you would be dead

What about the ones who aren't? What does trickle down economics do for them?

#1 . the socialist experiment in Canada created far more of those who are not fed well
#2 there has not been any time frame in human history where there were not poor people, you cant fix human nature
a rich and prosperous society can help to a greater extent than a poor society
the private sector donates a lot , go take a look at a hospital donation wall

Nothing. So it does not work.

do not be ridiculous, you spew disingenuous rubbish

The government aka public sector is what keeps those people fed and healthy.
They are also the ones who help us have a good quality of life - free healthcare, roads, infrastructure and so on.

all of which are now at risk because of irresponsible left wing, socialist spending and dependence on unsustainable debt

In 2023/24, the federal and provincial governments are expected to spend $81.8 billion on interest payments.
which can not be spent on free healthcare, roads, infrastructure and so on.

you seem oblivious to the obvious
No-one including the govt can continue borrowing in perpetuity

and you are delusional if you think universal health care is sustainable after the loonie left govts borrowed to the max.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

I'd rather castrate myself than become a filthy Yank.