Road Tolls Announced DVP GARDINER

[captnkirk]

There have now been 4 or 5 administrations, that were up for reelection every 3 years, who finished one campaign only to start the next with a promise not to raise property taxes. We are now reaping the results with our crumbling infrastructure. yesterday the city guy who is repairing 50 km of water pipes a year said that by the time he is done it will be time to start all over again.
We simply cannot continue to pretend that things come without a cost. The huge infrastructure deficit has been caused by the years of "not from my wallet" and it is time to change. You should be putting money away every year to pay for your roof shingles that will need replacing 10 years from now; not waiting for the 10 years to pass and then say oh crap I have no money.

Tolls are the most efficient way to allocate costs to actual users. Yes it will force some to change their habits....I drive 2-3 x a week on the Gardiner or DVP...by my self mostly but my S/O and I do try to double up even though she could use her Metro pass. The # of single passenger cars that clogged the roads is mind numbing.

With electronic toll collection comes the opportunity to do what I have suggested in the other thread about using 407 technology to automatically bill speeders.

We can see the Gardiner from our condo and outside of rush hours we see and hear the speeders and road racers.

Nab them with progressive speeding fines that are automatically calculated and added to your toll bill. Anything over the road racing limit should be at least double the road racing fine since you did not get caught and lose your car for a week.

All speeding revenues on DVP and Gardiner get directed to TTC infrastructure.

 

[mynameisearl11]

Yes, you can sit longer in a TTC street car/ bus completely stalled in traffic by cars avoiding tolls. We saw just what a huge disaster the Panama games single lane restriction was - the loss of productivity from workers who can't navigate around the massive grid lock will far exceed the toll revenue. As far as making Yonge street , Bloor, etc a toll road it is not feasible because it is not a control access road, you can't collect toll information at each intersection (not to mention the businesses who would be hit hard).

It's a stupid cash grab which is only going to hurt the traffic patterns in Toronto - not help them. $4 /day (2x$2) ; $20 /wk; $80 /mth; $960 /yr .... @ tax rate of 25% means you would have to earn $1280 extra on your pay to break even. F*ck'm ! They already collect $ billions from gasoline surcharges - why not go after a larger portion of that revenue ?

Agree here that businesses in downtown Toronto could be hurt as well because the "other's guy car" stopped traveling to downtown core. Imagine,SP's working downtown have to offer to pay the toll so that guys can come in from,say,the airport. Another side effect on this plan is that companies could move away to the surburb to save their employees some money.

 

[danmand]

One of the roles of government is to provide infrastructure, i.e. roads, sewage systems etc. Toll roads by their very nature are non-productive and reduce productivity of society as a whole.

A much better solution is to provide better public transport. Nobody in their right mind would be using the DVP and the Gardiner during rush hour if public transport alternatives existed.

 

[rhuarc29]

Meh, I'm one of those people who would rather have no fixed usage fees on essential services (tolls, gasoline taxes, licensing fees), and rather that Ontario income tax pay for all infrastructure where it's required in the province, including highways, streets, railways, subways, etc. Separating it out like they do with all these additional fees just allows them to cheat and say they're not raising taxes, whereas they're actually raising taxes.

It also pits one group against another. Put a toll on 400-series highways? That's okay for anyone who doesn't use them. Increase subway rates? That's okay for anyone who doesn't use them. The government does this on purpose so that a majority is never upset by their revenue tools. Increasing income tax rates spreads the burden over everyone, and so everyone will bitch and complain about it, even though it's a more transparent and simple system that is far more efficient and cost effective.

Maybe I just think this way because I consider transportation an essential service.

 

[SaturnFan]

This is so poorly implemented. They should only toll trucks and 905ers. Toronto residents already pay for the highways though our tax base. 905ers should get tolled and only during rush hour.

If that's your thought, then perhaps the 905 Municipalities should toll 416ers that travel outside Metro.

You know that it will be years before drivers see any benefits as a result of Tory's $2 tax.

 

[fuji]

The problem is, there's currently no faster alternative to get into the city for many drivers, which is why many drive. I understand the plan is to charge drivers a flat rate of $2.00 each time you enter the highway, regardless of the length of the trip. This will no doubt push a lot more cars onto side streets. Especially for the ones who currently use the highway for a short distance. This in turn will increase traffic congestion, pollution etc. on inner city streets.

Sorry, what was that you said a year ago?

Ultimately some will instead park at GO train station instead, others will telecommute on occasion, and still others will just pay.

If you were willing to spend an extra half hour getting where you are going on side streets then your time is worth $4/hr and you should likely get off the highway and make way for more important people.

There's toll roads where I live and I always prefer driving on them because they are always better maintained than the non toll roads. Places that don't have road tolls usually have potholes.

 

[Keebler Elf]

This is what happens when you're too chicken shit to raise property taxes.

There, I said it. The elephant's in the room.

 

[Mr. Piggy]

This is just another tax grab by the city of Toronto. I'm sure when the DVP and Gardner were built some of the money came from the Ontario and Federal Gov't and not all from Toronto itself. So taxpayers have already paid for these highways and now they want to tax them again. These politicians will never stop gouging the people for more money. I'm glad I don't live in that shithole called Toronto and I don't go there either. On occasion I travel across it but never down into it. For all those who think it's a good idea, you need to wake the fuck up and stop supporting cash grabbing politicians.

 

[Mr. Piggy]

I like the idea of the suburbanites finally paying their dues. Especially if my property taxes don't go up.

Do you really think that it will keep your taxes from going up. Wake up man, they will raise them too. As for suburbanites finally paying their dues, they already do. Does the city of Toronto not get money from the province?

 

[fuji]

This is what happens when you're too chicken shit to raise property taxes.

There, I said it. The elephant's in the room.

Why should Toronto taxpayers pay for roads primarily used by 905 drivers?

 

[fuji]

Does the city of Toronto not get money from the province?

Not enough. A different solution would be a province wide gas tax increase. Miller tried for something like that back in the day.

 

[james t kirk]

It's completely bullshit because they will not increase the infrastructure budget by 2 cents.

All the money will just go to general revenue to support the ever growing number of useless social programs and the army f bureaucrats that make their living from it.

If they said, "hey, last year the infrastructure budget was 1 billion and now with this new tax that will generate 200 million, the budget will be 1.2 billion, I would be able to get my head around it. But that won't be the case. Last year's budget was a billion, this year's budget will be a billion and that is that

 

[fuji]

It's completely bullshit because they will not increase the infrastructure budget by 2 cents.

Of course not. The infrastructure budget is already larger than the revenue, this is catch up.

I agree with you that the downloading of social services to Toronto has been a disaster and should be reversed.

 

[explorerzip]

Do you really think that it will keep your taxes from going up. Wake up man, they will raise them too. As for suburbanites finally paying their dues, they already do. Does the city of Toronto not get money from the province?

As far as I know, the Mike Harris government stopped funding the operations for the TTC. They only pick up part of the cost for capital projects like new transit lines and vehicles. Regardless of who is directly responsible, transit has been a political football for many decades. Governments keep doing the transit project dance. Projects are green lit, then they're cancelled, and then they'er green lit only in a different form.

 

[explorerzip]

Of course not. The infrastructure budget is already larger than the revenue, this is catch up.

I agree with you that the downloading of social services to Toronto has been a disaster and should be reversed.

We cannot forget the disaster of amalgamating all the former municipalities into one giant megacity.

 

[fuji]

Next time I'm in Toronto I look forward to a fast moving Gardiner for the paltry sum of $2. If it gets less important traffic out of my way I'm all for it!

 

[explorerzip]

Why should Toronto taxpayers pay for roads primarily used by 905 drivers?

The way things are now, there's no way to tell who are the 416 drivers and who are the 905 drivers. We can easily do that with 407 style cameras and transponders since that information is in a database. I honestly think that ALL road users whether they be from inside or outside the city of Toronto proper should be paying for the roads because they're contributing to the wear and tear.

Paying for Toronto's road network is especially important for buildings like the Ontario Food Terminal that benefit people from all over the region.

 

[Big Sleazy]

Before anybody agrees or proposes one more tax you have to answer these questions.

1. Where does money come from ?

2. How is money created ?

Until you can answer these two relatively simple questions. You should not be allowed to propose taxes and everybody else should shut the fuck up !

Idiots. Fucking idiots.

 

[Brill]

It's a stupid cash grab which is only going to hurt the traffic patterns in Toronto - not help them. $4 /day (2x$2) ; $20 /wk; $80 /mth; $960 /yr .... @ tax rate of 25% means you would have to earn $1280 extra on your pay to break even. F*ck'm ! They already collect $ billions from gasoline surcharges - why not go after a larger portion of that revenue ?

If $2 is a stupid cash grab, what do you call $3 for a TTC ride that isn't door-to-door, takes twice as long as driving and you aren't even guaranteed a seat???

Cars have had a free ride far too long, the gas tax doesn't put a dent into what it costs to pander to them. On top of tolls, we should bring in a $50,000 per year registration fee to make them more accountable for their destruction.

 

[explorerzip]

^^^ agreed.

I just hope we get a 407 type structure where pics are taken of license plates, as opposed to old-school toll roads where you have to flip a toonie into a bucket. Those archaic toll roads seriously slow down traffic and cause even more traffic jams

I just hope that private companies don't get involved with building or operating the toll collection infrastructure like the 407. Remember that the 407 was built using public money, but was sold at a significant discount to private interests that can do whatever they want: increase tolls, deny plate renewals, etc. for 99 years!