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Road Tolls Announced DVP GARDINER

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,768
3,904
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I have no problem with this. The highways are getting crazy busy.
Get the non-essential cars off the road, or let them take lakeshore
 

jimmylikes

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
3,359
779
113
agreed , id rather they tax cars rather than more property tax or some other bullshit tax on non car owners....
 

Aardvark154

New member
Jan 19, 2006
53,773
3
0
There is no question that the Golden Horseshoe as a whole has allowed itself to get left behind by the increase in traffic on area highways, something has to be done to catch-up.
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,768
3,904
113
^^^ agreed.

I just hope we get a 407 type structure where pics are taken of license plates, as opposed to old-school toll roads where you have to flip a toonie into a bucket. Those archaic toll roads seriously slow down traffic and cause even more traffic jams
 

Phil C. McNasty

Go Jays Go
Dec 27, 2010
25,768
3,904
113
Which ones are the non-essential cars?
People going for scenic sunday drives. People who drive for pleasure.
You know the ones.

Also short distance drivers.
If you're in Etobicoke and you wanna get to BMO field, take Lakeshore and not the QEW
 

Brill

Well-known member
Jun 29, 2008
8,683
1,199
113
Toronto
You're going to hear a lot of wailing over two lousy dollars.
Not worth it, double it and include the streets with a subway like the Allen, Yonge, Bloor/Danforth, Sheppard and Eglinton. Put ALL the money towards keeping TTC fares at a loonie per ride.
 
Feb 27, 2015
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Not a chance that this is in place by the end of 2017. It took them 8 months to evaluate the Feasibility RFP. I'd guess March, 2019, and that's an aggressive timeline.
 

trm

Well-known member
Apr 8, 2009
8,012
24,981
113
When costs are increasing government's first reaction is to raise more revenue, not cut expenses. If Toronto Council and Wynne's Liberals don't stop gouging people someone is going to resurrect the old Mike Harris platform and win an election on it.
 

IM469

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2012
10,994
2,300
113
You're going to hear a lot of wailing over two lousy dollars.
Not worth it, double it and include the streets with a subway like the Allen, Yonge, Bloor/Danforth, Sheppard and Eglinton. Put ALL the money towards keeping TTC fares at a loonie per ride.
Yes, you can sit longer in a TTC street car/ bus completely stalled in traffic by cars avoiding tolls. We saw just what a huge disaster the Panama games single lane restriction was - the loss of productivity from workers who can't navigate around the massive grid lock will far exceed the toll revenue. As far as making Yonge street , Bloor, etc a toll road it is not feasible because it is not a control access road, you can't collect toll information at each intersection (not to mention the businesses who would be hit hard).

It's a stupid cash grab which is only going to hurt the traffic patterns in Toronto - not help them. $4 /day (2x$2) ; $20 /wk; $80 /mth; $960 /yr .... @ tax rate of 25% means you would have to earn $1280 extra on your pay to break even. F*ck'm ! They already collect $ billions from gasoline surcharges - why not go after a larger portion of that revenue ?
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,629
2,516
113
The problem is, there's currently no faster alternative to get into the city for many drivers, which is why many drive. I understand the plan is to charge drivers a flat rate of $2.00 each time you enter the highway, regardless of the length of the trip. This will no doubt push a lot more cars onto side streets. Especially for the ones who currently use the highway for a short distance. This in turn will increase traffic congestion, pollution etc. on inner city streets.

Sorry, what was that you said a year ago?

 
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jimmylikes

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
3,359
779
113
Its a politicians job to flip flop....

The problem is, there's currently no faster alternative to get into the city for many drivers, which is why many drive. I understand the plan is to charge drivers a flat rate of $2.00 each time you enter the highway, regardless of the length of the trip. This will no doubt push a lot more cars onto side streets. Especially for the ones who currently use the highway for a short distance. This in turn will increase traffic congestion, pollution etc. on inner city streets.

Sorry, what was that you said a year ago?

 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,629
2,516
113
It's a stupid cash grab which is only going to hurt the traffic patterns in Toronto - not help them. $4 /day (2x$2) ; $20 /wk; $80 /mth; $960 /yr .... @ tax rate of 25% means you would have to earn $1280 extra on your pay to break even. F*ck'm ! They already collect $ billions from gasoline surcharges - why not go after a larger portion of that revenue ?
I think that's a conservative estimate. There 261 calendar year working days in 2016. Assuming you drive the DVP/Gardiner each day for work, @ $4/day plus 13% tax, that's an annual out of pocket hit of $1,180.00. This doesn't include weekend trips. And I suspect it will be more than $2 per trip when you factor in a transponder lease fee, administration charge etc. Then like all taxes, they will simply raise them a little bit each year.

Let's not forget every business who uses those highways will simply pass the extra cost onto consumers, so everyone will pay a bit more.

They're also suggesting increasing taxes on properties, alcohol, tobacco, bringing back the vehicle registration tax and doubling it. Let's not forget Wynne's carbon tax will add another 4.3 cents a litre.

Maybe this will force motorists into already overcrowded subways which currently can't even handle more riders at rush hour. Good plan!

Let him know how you feel. I'm certainly going to. mayor_tory@toronto.ca
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,447
1,331
113
I think that's a conservative estimate. There 261 calendar year working days in 2016. Assuming you drive the DVP/Gardiner each day for work, @ $4/day plus 13% tax, that's an annual out of pocket hit of $1,180.00. This doesn't include weekend trip. And I suspect it will be more than $2 per trip when you factor in a transponder lease fee, administration charge etc. Then like all taxes, they will simply raise them a little bit each year.

Let's not forget every business who uses those highways will simply pass the extra cost onto consumers, so everyone will pay a bit more.

They're also suggesting increasing taxes on properties, alcohol, tobacco, bringing back the vehicle registration tax and doubling it. Let's not forget Wynne's carbon tax will add another 4.3 cents a litre.

Maybe this will force motorists into already overcrowded subways which currently can't even handle more riders at rush hour. Good plan!

Let him know how you feel. I'm certainly going to. mayor_tory@toronto.ca
All this to pay for his stupid $3B hole in the ground?
 

nottyboi

Well-known member
May 14, 2008
22,447
1,331
113
This is so poorly implemented. They should only toll trucks and 905ers. Toronto residents already pay for the highways though our tax base. 905ers should get tolled and only during rush hour.
 

GameBoy27

Well-known member
Nov 23, 2004
12,629
2,516
113
Interesting that this report came out 6 days before Tory's road toll announcement.

Road tolls not the answer: CAA

Road tolls may not be the most effective way to get rid of gridlock.

A new Conference Board of Canada report released Friday, Congestion Costs, Road Capacity and Implications for Policy-Makers, commissioned by the Canadian Automobile Association South Central Ontario, warns the hasty solution of tolls may mean pricing people out of their cars — and ending up without the expected revenue to fund infrastructure projects.

Instead, CAA is calling on policymakers – including politicians, stakeholders and road users themselves – to start using other tools to reduce congestion, including freeway ramp metering, reversible lanes, time-of-day truck traffic restrictions, parking controls and support for ride-sharing, public transit, cycling and walking, before committing to a congestion control strategy.

“Too often, the discussion around congestion starts and stops with ‘road pricing,’ with a lack of transparency on the objectives and how those expected to pay actually benefit, and this does little in tackling the frustration of getting around,” said Terese Di Felice, director of government and community relations at CAASCO.

“Motorists are paying for the maintenance and operation of roads. What’s happening here is we start off with a congestion fee or a road toll and you get a whole lot of push-back. That’s not the only solution and that’s not the ultimate solution.”

A previous report by the Conference Board of Canada determined drivers are already paying a fair share in vehicle registration fees, parking tickets and fuel excise tax — in Ontario, it was between 70% to 90% and in the GTA where congestion is a bigger problem, it was over 100% – for the current cost of maintaining and operating roads.

“The infrastructure for people to come out of their cars doesn’t currently exist in the city,” she said. “You may get some people out of their cars, but you don’t want to price them so everyone jumps out because then you don’t have the revenue you are relying on to build out the infrastructure.”

The report stresses a public consultation of costs and benefits of road pricing must include a full accounting of who pays, who benefits and by how much.

“If the motorists are expected to pay, what do they expect to get out of it?” said Di Felice. “Is it less cars on the road, more infrastructure so they have more choice? Are you trying to get people out of their cars or revenue to do other stuff? There needs to be a strategy.”

Technology as a solution is also not being implemented as much as it could be as it could be.

A suggestion by researchers at University of Toronto, which was proposed in the report, are smart self-learning traffic lights that cut down delays at busy intersections by up to 60%.

“Reducing unnecessary delays at intersections is akin to increasing the capacity of the network, but without having to make the investment in the physical stock of roads,” said the report.

Measures which policy-makers should consider to cut down on gridlock:

- Synchronized and traffic-sensitive signals

- Land use and transport facility planning

- Freeway ramp metering

- Reversible lanes

- Dynamic speed control

- Traffic information through variable message signs

- Demand management other than road-use charging (time-of-day access restrictions, HOV lanes, taxes on commercial parking lots), bike and pedestrian infrastructure, ride-sharing and public transit

- Capacity expansion through traffic management

- Capacity expansion through new construction

Source: Congestion Costs, Road Capacity and Implications for Policy-Makers report

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/11/18/road-tolls-not-the-answer-caa
 

JackBurton

Well-known member
Jan 5, 2012
1,918
729
113
I like the idea of the suburbanites finally paying their dues. Especially if my property taxes don't go up. People in Toronto know enough side roads to get around it.

The problem I have is that the revenue they expect will be pissed away and our infrastructure won't be updated. Governments are pretty good at that.

Better solution is tax the shit out of pot and fix all the things. Denver has some ridiculous surplus since legalizing pot and they can finally build up their city.
 
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