Report: Five members of Canada’s 2018 WJC team told to surrender to London Police

[The Oracle]

[


But she said

I’m sure that’s his plan to help the defence…but when you show he is lying with his “sudden memory loss “ act with a seasoned judge on the stand I’m not sure how much it helps

''
Nick Cake, a former Crown prosecutor who is now a London, Ont., criminal defence lawyer and also following the trial, is not surprised memories have faded.

“Witnesses' memory, of course, is of paramount importance. It all goes to their credibility and their reliability,” he says.

But, he adds, “I don't think that the message here is that all of the defendants have gotten together with all of their buddies and everyone's trying to cover something up.

“I think the message here is that this happened in 2018. It's now 2025. If you want people to remember things, maybe get the charges laid a bit earlier, right? There was an opportunity for that to happen, but for a variety of reasons that didn't happen. But if you want memories fresh, let's run criminal trials contemporaneously with the allegations.”

While the legal discussions may be frustrating and confusing, both lawyers say it’s important to make sure all the evidence is being presented and the law is being applied to try to prevent appeals later.

Still, Cake says if he were the Crown, he would take a look at the witness list to see what their value is in a judge-alone trial.

“Because ultimately, if you're now putting witnesses on the stand that aren't necessarily assisting your case, it may in fact devalue what [the complainant] E.M. had to say because it clouds the whole nature of the trial.”

 

[Fun For All]

[


But she said

''
Nick Cake, a former Crown prosecutor who is now a London, Ont., criminal defence lawyer and also following the trial, is not surprised memories have faded.

“Witnesses' memory, of course, is of paramount importance. It all goes to their credibility and their reliability,” he says.

But, he adds, “I don't think that the message here is that all of the defendants have gotten together with all of their buddies and everyone's trying to cover something up.

“I think the message here is that this happened in 2018. It's now 2025. If you want people to remember things, maybe get the charges laid a bit earlier, right? There was an opportunity for that to happen, but for a variety of reasons that didn't happen. But if you want memories fresh, let's run criminal trials contemporaneously with the allegations.”

While the legal discussions may be frustrating and confusing, both lawyers say it’s important to make sure all the evidence is being presented and the law is being applied to try to prevent appeals later.

Still, Cake says if he were the Crown, he would take a look at the witness list to see what their value is in a judge-alone trial.

“Because ultimately, if you're now putting witnesses on the stand that aren't necessarily assisting your case, it may in fact devalue what [the complainant] E.M. had to say because it clouds the whole nature of the trial.”

I read it in our local coverage…bullshit…how can you remember the details that help the players but conveniently can’t remember the details that implicate them, can’t remember details in two previous statements they’ve made…how do you not remember a night like that…

 

[jalimon]

[


But she said

''
Nick Cake, a former Crown prosecutor who is now a London, Ont., criminal defence lawyer and also following the trial, is not surprised memories have faded.

“Witnesses' memory, of course, is of paramount importance. It all goes to their credibility and their reliability,” he says.

But, he adds, “I don't think that the message here is that all of the defendants have gotten together with all of their buddies and everyone's trying to cover something up.

“I think the message here is that this happened in 2018. It's now 2025. If you want people to remember things, maybe get the charges laid a bit earlier, right? There was an opportunity for that to happen, but for a variety of reasons that didn't happen. But if you want memories fresh, let's run criminal trials contemporaneously with the allegations.”

While the legal discussions may be frustrating and confusing, both lawyers say it’s important to make sure all the evidence is being presented and the law is being applied to try to prevent appeals later.

Still, Cake says if he were the Crown, he would take a look at the witness list to see what their value is in a judge-alone trial.

“Because ultimately, if you're now putting witnesses on the stand that aren't necessarily assisting your case, it may in fact devalue what [the complainant] E.M. had to say because it clouds the whole nature of the trial.”

I have a problem remembering what I ate last night... Bring a trial dating back 7 years?? For fuck sake memory lapse is happening to 95% of the population.

 

[The Oracle]

I read it in our local coverage…bullshit…how can you remember the details that help the players but conveniently can’t remember the details that implicate them, can’t remember details in two previous statements they’ve made…how do you not remember a night like that…

Carnelos is asking Howden about his state of mind and why he wrote what he did in the texts to Raddysh.

Howden can’t remember sending them but says he hadn’t spoken to a lawyer at that point. He was just trying to figure out what to tell his parents.

“It was just hard. The thought of even, you know, bringing this up with my parents. And I … was just kind of looking, you know, for a friend because I didn't … really know how to go about this,” Howden told Carnelos.

“And you're worried about your professional career at this point as well?” Carnelos asked.

“Honestly … I was more so worried with Hockey Canada and their standards and their code of conduct…. I never thought it would come to what it has now.

“I just … always thought, you know, I was worried about what Hockey Canada would think of, you know, the fact that there was even a girl there … that was, you know, my main worry.”

Howden said it’s hard to remember details because “for so long, I’ve just been trying to move on past this and forget about this all.”

 

[jalimon]

I read it in our local coverage…bullshit…how can you remember the details that help the players but conveniently can’t remember the details that implicate them, can’t remember details in two previous statements they’ve made…how do you not remember a night like that…

Because there are no real, valid details that implicate them.

The girl went into a room, a bit drunk, and had sex with a good-looking, fit hockey player. Some more arrive. She flirts. She did too much. But she did. The next day, she feels dirty. Her entourage cries out loud that she was rape... She follows along... Stupidly.

These guys went into a room in a party mood. A girl is there, naked, a bit drunk. They have fun, they have sex. But not an all-out gang bang. Seems they took their turn, and I think most go for bj only. Once it's over, they have a few regrets. Probably they feel a bit dirty too.

Who has not been in a similar situation in college, has not lived to the fullest

The problem with these guys is that it's now 2018 when cellphone records things almost before they happen... And these guys were top hockey players.. This whole trial is a joke and a real problem for women who are really sexually abuse.

 

[Fun For All]

Because there are no real, valid details that implicate them.

The girl went into a room, a bit drunk, and had sex with a good-looking, fit hockey player. Some more arrive. She flirts. She did too much. But she did. The next day, she feels dirty. Her entourage cries out loud that she was rape... She follows along... Stupidly.

These guys went into a room in a party mood. A girl is there, naked, a bit drunk. They have fun, they have sex. But not an all-out gang bang. Seems they took their turn, and I think most go for bj only. Once it's over, they have a few regrets. Probably they feel a bit dirty too.

Who has not been in a similar situation in college, has not lived to the fullest

The problem with these guys is that it's now 2018 when cellphone records things almost before they happen... And these guys were top hockey players.. This whole trial is a joke and a real problem for women who are really sexually abuse.

Clearly you didn’t follow her testimony or the details of the two previous statements that Howden gave

 

[Fun For All]

I have a problem remembering what I ate last night... Bring a trial dating back 7 years?? For fuck sake memory lapse is happening to 95% of the population.

You should be able to remember what you said in two previous statements and I don’t think you forget a night like that. He remembers little details to help the players, but he doesn’t remember the details of implicate them. It’s quit the bullshit. He’s doing these players a solid.

 

[mellowjello]

You should be able to remember what you said in two previous statements and I don’t think you forget a night like that. He remembers little details to help the players, but he doesn’t remember the details of implicate them. It’s quit the bullshit. He’s doing these players a solid.

Funny how you split hairs on what people should remember and the how and why they should when it comes to the players,
yet you cut her total slack on her own contradictory statements and her memory loss.
How do you know she was drunk, or at least drunk enough to be out of control?
How do you know she's naive? You mean naive enough to hook up with a stranger at a bar and within hours go to his hotel room to
fuck him while she's in a three month relationship with a guy she's now engaged to?
Refer to Goodfellas: "...don't give me the babe in the woods routine Karen..."

 

[Fun For All]

Funny how you split hairs on what people should remember and the how and why they should when it comes to the players,
yet you cut her total slack on her own contradictory statements and her memory loss.
How do you know she was drunk, or at least drunk enough to be out of control?
How do you know she's naive? You mean naive enough to hook up with a stranger at a bar and within hours go to his hotel room to
fuck him while she's in a three month relationship with a guy she's now engaged to?
Refer to Goodfellas: "...don't give me the babe in the woods routine Karen..."

Brett Howden is 27 and doesn't have Alzheimers, he should remember a night like that and the two statements he gave after that.

Today, Howden says the statements are true but just doesn't remember them...they'll get introduced as evidence and that is not good news to the players, there is some damaging information in them.

Hockey Canada trial: NHLer Brett Howden breaks down during testimony

Even professional hockey players have raw emotions.

lfpress.com

 

[The Oracle]

Today, Howden says the statements are true but just doesn't remember them...they'll get introduced as evidence and that is not good news to the players, there is some damaging information in them.

[

Not necessarily there partner...

''

Court has resumed and now Riaz Sayani, lawyer for Carter Hart, is also challenging the admissibility and accuracy of Howden’s text message related to the alleged slap by Dubé on the buttocks of the complainant.

Sayani said the witness must be able to assert that the record accurately represented his knowledge and recollection at the time.

It's not good enough for a witness to say they would have been truthful, Sayani said. There also needs to be a voucher that they were, in fact, accurate.

All Howden can say is that he was being sincere, Sayani said, but he can’t say he was not inaccurate.

Sayani said Howden also said that he agreed some of what he said in all the text messages could be inaccurate, but couldn’t specify which ones.''

'' Legal arguments over the admissibility of the text message have ended and Justice Maria Carroccia said she will make her ruling on the issue Friday morning ''

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/livestory/nhler-brett-howden-briefly-breaks-down-under-questioning-at-trial-of-former-world-junior-hockey-players-9.6768959

 

[Fun For All]

Not necessarily there partner...

''

Court has resumed and now Riaz Sayani, lawyer for Carter Hart, is also challenging the admissibility and accuracy of Howden’s text message related to the alleged slap by Dubé on the buttocks of the complainant.

Sayani said the witness must be able to assert that the record accurately represented his knowledge and recollection at the time.

It's not good enough for a witness to say they would have been truthful, Sayani said. There also needs to be a voucher that they were, in fact, accurate.

All Howden can say is that he was being sincere, Sayani said, but he can’t say he was not inaccurate.

Sayani said Howden also said that he agreed some of what he said in all the text messages could be inaccurate, but couldn’t specify which ones.''

'' Legal arguments over the admissibility of the text message have ended and Justice Maria Carroccia said she will make her ruling on the issue Friday morning ''

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/livestory/nhler-brett-howden-briefly-breaks-down-under-questioning-at-trial-of-former-world-junior-hockey-players-9.6768959

This trial has been unfair...The victim was on the stand for eight days being insulted by five law fims...witnesses with selective testimony and sudden memory loss...now a key piece of evidence could get tossed.

Why don't they just let these guys off and throw them a parade.

 

[boobtoucher]

This trial has been unfair...The victim was on the stand for eight days being insulted by five law fims...witnesses with selective testimony and sudden memory loss...now a key piece of evidence could get tossed.

Why don't they just let these guys off and throw them a parade.

This seems to be the crowns plan: Call witnesses then discredit them, establish that the players aren't being truthful, then establish that specific acts were non consensual.

 

[K Douglas]

[


But she said

''
Nick Cake, a former Crown prosecutor who is now a London, Ont., criminal defence lawyer and also following the trial, is not surprised memories have faded.

“Witnesses' memory, of course, is of paramount importance. It all goes to their credibility and their reliability,” he says.

But, he adds, “I don't think that the message here is that all of the defendants have gotten together with all of their buddies and everyone's trying to cover something up.

“I think the message here is that this happened in 2018. It's now 2025. If you want people to remember things, maybe get the charges laid a bit earlier, right? There was an opportunity for that to happen, but for a variety of reasons that didn't happen. But if you want memories fresh, let's run criminal trials contemporaneously with the allegations.”

While the legal discussions may be frustrating and confusing, both lawyers say it’s important to make sure all the evidence is being presented and the law is being applied to try to prevent appeals later.

Still, Cake says if he were the Crown, he would take a look at the witness list to see what their value is in a judge-alone trial.

“Because ultimately, if you're now putting witnesses on the stand that aren't necessarily assisting your case, it may in fact devalue what [the complainant] E.M. had to say because it clouds the whole nature of the trial.”

Witness testimony is also one of the least effective pieces of evidence for a prosecutor. If that's what they are relying on 7 years after the fact, that's a problem.

 

[K Douglas]

This trial has been unfair...The victim was on the stand for eight days being insulted by five law fims...witnesses with selective testimony and sudden memory loss...now a key piece of evidence could get tossed.

Why don't they just let these guys off and throw them a parade.

They have also accommodated her by allowing her to testify from a private room where she doesn't have to even face the defendants. Not to mention they have allowed her to remain anonymous. I'd hardly call that unfair.
Being scrutinized for holes in her story is not an insult. Justice demands that happen. I'm sure her lawyer(s) prepared her for that.

 

[K Douglas]

Brett Howden is 27 and doesn't have Alzheimers, he should remember a night like that and the two statements he gave after that.

Today, Howden says the statements are true but just doesn't remember them...they'll get introduced as evidence and that is not good news to the players, there is some damaging information in them.

Hockey Canada trial: NHLer Brett Howden breaks down during testimony

Even professional hockey players have raw emotions.

lfpress.com

He is on record as saying he stands by the statements he gave to the investigators at the time. But he doesn't recall them in detail or the night in question. That would make sense because a) it was 7 years ago b) he has moved on with his life as a professional hockey player and c) he was probably drunk that night as well.

 

[mellowjello]

This trial has been unfair...The victim was on the stand for eight days being insulted by five law fims...witnesses with selective testimony and sudden memory loss...now a key piece of evidence could get tossed.

Why don't they just let these guys off and throw them a parade.

There's something strange about how invested you are in this woman, your commentary is really over the top.
Now you're going to accuse the defense team of insulting her because they cross examined her?
I'll ask you again, why are you're standards different for the players than they are for her.
She's contradicted herself numerous time, claimed she couldn't remember, couldn't remember right at the moments that would be incriminating for her.

How do you interrogate a woman who accuses a player of forcing himself into the washroom and assaulting her, and then when confronted with the testimony that she brought
him in there, she says it might be possible?
How do you interrogate a woman who when confronted with her sexually lewd behaviour and language, says she can't remember doing that and
if she did, she wasn't in a state of mind to be responsible for that?
The real victim here is her fiance, he's a victim of her deceit and infidelity as well as a victim of his own incredible stupidity.
Your girlfriend hooks up with a stranger at a bar and within hours is fucking him in his hotel room, and you want to marry her?
These two deserve each other.

 

[The Oracle]

There's something strange about how invested you are in this woman, your commentary is really over the top.

I've been thinking the same thing...I'm reminded though that he has stated on here that he is from London so....

 

[The Oracle]

Your girlfriend hooks up with a stranger at a bar and within hours is fucking him in his hotel room, and you want to marry her?

He has 3.5 million reasons why he'd marry her...

 

[The Oracle]

He is on record as saying he stands by the statements he gave to the investigators at the time. But he doesn't recall them in detail or the night in question. That would make sense because a) it was 7 years ago b) he has moved on with his life as a professional hockey player and c) he was probably drunk that night as well.

If they can get a player to testify at this trial that at some point she was crying and wanted to leave but wasn't allowed then that would turn things. I don't think that is going to happen though.

 

[mandrill]

They have also accommodated her by allowing her to testify from a private room where she doesn't have to even face the defendants. Not to mention they have allowed her to remain anonymous. I'd hardly call that unfair.

That's all standard. It's not special treatment