Report: Five members of Canada’s 2018 WJC team told to surrender to London Police

[onomatopoeia]

Consent can't be withdrawn after the fact.

A seventy year old woman says 'I've been married to Harold for forty-nine years. Last week I caught him having sex with the maid. Now I'm withdrawing consent for every time we ever had sex. That means he sexually assaulted me..... sixteen times!".

 

[Fun For All]

Crown thinks Brett Howden made 18 inconsistent remarks from previous statements...

Hockey Canada trial: NHLer's memory issues are 'not sincere,' Crown argues

Legal arguments over potential evidence inconsistencies dominated Wednesday’s proceedings at the Hockey Canada sexual assault trial.

lfpress.com

 

[The Oracle]

Crown thinks Brett Howden made 18 inconsistent remarks from previous statements...

Hockey Canada trial: NHLer's memory issues are 'not sincere,' Crown argues

Legal arguments over potential evidence inconsistencies dominated Wednesday’s proceedings at the Hockey Canada sexual assault trial.

lfpress.com

At the end of the court day, Superior Court Justice Maria Carroccia agreed with the defence. “In my view I cannot find that Mr. Howden is feigning lack of memory or being insincere about whether he has a recollection of his earlier statements or particulars of the events he is asked to describe.”

“On more than one occasion, when given an opportunity to refresh his memory, Mr. Howden has testified that he has no present recollection, but was telling the truth when he answered questions previously,” she said and added that Howden was “effectively adopting his earlier statements due to his lack of memory” and “not attempting to distance himself from his earlier statements.”
“There is no basis upon which I can conclude that Mr. Howden is being untruthful about his lack of details,” she said.

The crown seems to be building a good case for the defense so far...

 

[Fun For All]

So after taking advantage of in abusing and treating a drunken, naive 20 year old girl about as badly as you would treat another person...an amateur consent video is taken that shows their guilty feelings in an attempt to cover their behaviour...they get on a group cover up chat that shows their concern with a "we have to say the same thing"...Dube and Foote make private phone calls to players to direct then what to say including "don't tell anyone you seen what I did"...the girl gets on the stand for eight days and gets verbally abused and gets treated like shit by five defence teams...now Brett Howden lies on the stand, he's the third player to do the "I'm not sure", "I can't remember" act on the stand.

I still think these guys did it and I still think they’re guilty…but they might get off and I don’t think they deserve too.

 

[Fun For All]

The crown seems to be building a good case for the defense so far.

It helps when three players suddenly develop memory problems

 

[onomatopoeia]

It's not as if cops never have different recollections about their colleagues' behaviour.

 

[lomotil]

So after taking advantage of in abusing and treating a drunken, naive 20 year old girl about as badly as you would treat another person...an amateur consent video is taken that shows their guilty feelings in an attempt to cover their behaviour...they get on a group cover up chat that shows their concern with a "we have to say the same thing"...Dube and Foote make private phone calls to players to direct then what to say including "don't tell anyone you seen what I did"...the girl gets on the stand for eight days and gets verbally abused and gets treated like shit by five defence teams...now Brett Howden lies on the stand, he's the third player to do the "I'm not sure", "I can't remember" act on the stand.

I still think these guys did it and I still think they’re guilty…but they might get off and I don’t think they deserve too.

This young adult complainant is much more sexual experienced apparently than some of these defendants, it show and she initiated some of these sex acts. . There were only five guys that she consensual parted the lips of her mouth and the lips between her legs to accommodated. In this consensual gang bang she didn’t enjoy all of it, and was latter overcome with remorse and shame apparently.
If there were additional guys, it seems that, she might have willing done them too. Evidence seems to show that was no coercion for her to do what she did and she was free to leave at any but choose to stay until the last dick was satiated, even for a second time.
Yes these defendants attempted to orchestrate a “coverup “ after the consensual gang bang , a “coverup “ for damage control but not to obscure a crime as there is a distinction which the courts will see.
.
The punishment that these defendants idiots have received is persona grata status with ensuing loss of wage potential and criminal convictions should happen.
Again, this complainant does a disservice to legitimate victims of sexual in the Canadian Judicial System.

ps I think you are aware that the Crown will not find these guys guilty !

 

[JimmyG]

At the end of the court day, Superior Court Justice Maria Carroccia agreed with the defence. “In my view I cannot find that Mr. Howden is feigning lack of memory or being insincere about whether he has a recollection of his earlier statements or particulars of the events he is asked to describe.”

“On more than one occasion, when given an opportunity to refresh his memory, Mr. Howden has testified that he has no present recollection, but was telling the truth when he answered questions previously,” she said and added that Howden was “effectively adopting his earlier statements due to his lack of memory” and “not attempting to distance himself from his earlier statements.”
“There is no basis upon which I can conclude that Mr. Howden is being untruthful about his lack of details,” she said.

The crown seems to be building a good case for the defense so far...

No not exactly

Hours later, Carroccia said there were four areas in which there were inconsistencies in Howden’s testimony. Before court adjourned for the day, Cunningham said that she would meet with defence lawyers to decide how to proceed.

The judge also said that since Howden presently doesn't recollect the details, hes basically agreeing his earlier statements as truth.

On more than one occasion when given an opportunity to refresh his memory Mr. Howden has testified that he has no present recollection of his telling the truth when he answered the questions previously. He was effectively adopting his earlier statements due to his present lack of memory.”

Rick Westhead: Judge rules Howden didn’t feign memory loss at London hockey trial | TSN

Justice Maria Carroccia ruled Wednesday that while there were some inconsistences in the testimony of Brett Howden, he was not feigning a lack of memory or being insincere on Tuesday when he said he couldn’t remember details around an alleged sexual assault involving five of his former teammates...

www.tsn.ca

There are so many points in Howden's testimony from 2018 AND 2023 where it shows EM was not ok with what was happening to her and even he felt there wasn't consent

 

[JimmyG]

Cunningham also said that while Howden testified on Tuesday that he didn’t hear anyone talk to E.M. when she was getting dressed, he told Robitaille in 2018 that he heard his teammates say, “Oh no baby, don’t leave.”

Howden testified Tuesday that he didn’t see E.M. putting her clothes back on at any point in McLeod’s hotel room. In 2018, however, he told Hockey Canada investigator Danielle Robitaille that E.M. started to get dressed and say, “I’m way too sober for this,” Cunningham said.

Howden also testified on Tuesday that he didn’t remember E.M. being upset.

Cunningham said that in his 2018 interview with Robitaille, Howden said, “I just heard her kind of weeping. I didn’t know what was going on. I went to my room because I didn’t want to be part of anything.”


I don't think this helps the defense at all, instead it shows a very different picture than what they proposed , that she had the idea for a "wild night"

Howden even sent a text message to another teammate showing the how bad the atmosphere in the room was that he felt he had to leave.

Cunningham read a text message Howden sent to Team Canada teammate Taylor Raddysh in 2018 in which Howden wrote, “Dude, I’m so happy I left when all the s--t went down. Haha. Man, when I was leaving, Duber was smacking this girl’s ass so hard. Like, it looks like it hurt so bad.”

Cunningham said that in 2022, Howden told Robitaille, “I do remember seeing the smack. That was drawing a line for me to leave because I had felt uncomfortable to that point. Once I had seen that, I just wanted to be out of there…”

This doesn't sound consensual at all and contradicts the defendants story.
He can say he doesn't remember since so much time has passed but he can't deny his statements he already made. Plus a text message he sent !

 

[JimmyG]

This young adult complainant is much more sexual experienced apparently than some of these defendants, it show and she initiated some of these sex acts. . There were only five guys that she consensual parted the lips of her mouth and the lips between her legs to accommodated. In this consensual gang bang she didn’t enjoy all of it, and was latter overcome with remorse and shame apparently.
If there were additional guys, it seems that, she might have willing done them too. Evidence seems to show that was no coercion for her to do what she did and she was free to leave at any but choose to stay until the last dick was satiated, even for a second time.
Yes these defendants attempted to orchestrate a “coverup “ after the consensual gang bang , a “coverup “ for damage control but not to obscure a crime as there is a distinction which the courts will see.
.
The punishment that these defendants idiots have received is persona grata status with ensuing loss of wage potential and criminal convictions should happen.
Again, this complainant does a disservice to legitimate victims of sexual in the Canadian Judicial System.

ps I think you are aware that the Crown will not find these guys guilty !

Wow I don't even know where to start with this.
How did you draw these conclusions from the factual evidence so far.
I could say that these guys targeted this girl at the bar , maybe she seemed the most drunk there that night, they're in a small town for a night only , maybe they talked about and planned it, and fugured she'd forget about it the next day
But I have no proof to support this

 

[onomatopoeia]

Howden is a witness for the prosecution. If his testimony is inconsistent, that only helps the defendants.

 

[Fun For All]

Cunningham also said that while Howden testified on Tuesday that he didn’t hear anyone talk to E.M. when she was getting dressed, he told Robitaille in 2018 that he heard his teammates say, “Oh no baby, don’t leave.”

Howden testified Tuesday that he didn’t see E.M. putting her clothes back on at any point in McLeod’s hotel room. In 2018, however, he told Hockey Canada investigator Danielle Robitaille that E.M. started to get dressed and say, “I’m way too sober for this,” Cunningham said.

Howden also testified on Tuesday that he didn’t remember E.M. being upset.

Cunningham said that in his 2018 interview with Robitaille, Howden said, “I just heard her kind of weeping. I didn’t know what was going on. I went to my room because I didn’t want to be part of anything.”


I don't think this helps the defense at all, instead it shows a very different picture than what they proposed , that she had the idea for a "wild night"

Howden even sent a text message to another teammate showing the how bad the atmosphere in the room was that he felt he had to leave.

Cunningham read a text message Howden sent to Team Canada teammate Taylor Raddysh in 2018 in which Howden wrote, “Dude, I’m so happy I left when all the s--t went down. Haha. Man, when I was leaving, Duber was smacking this girl’s ass so hard. Like, it looks like it hurt so bad.”

Cunningham said that in 2022, Howden told Robitaille, “I do remember seeing the smack. That was drawing a line for me to leave because I had felt uncomfortable to that point. Once I had seen that, I just wanted to be out of there…”

This doesn't sound consensual at all and contradicts the defendants story.
He can say he doesn't remember since so much time has passed but he can't deny his statements he already made. Plus a text message he sent !

Howden’s previous statements are pretty damaging to the defence and with the Crown making an issue of his “sudden memory loss” the judge may be seeing right through that.

And how about Foote's lawyer saying he was wearing shorts when he did the splits over her face.,..hahaha...who believes that?

 

[Fun For All]

Howden is a witness for the prosecution. If his testimony is inconsistent, that only helps the defendants.

I’m sure that’s his plan to help the defence…but when you show he is lying with his “sudden memory loss “ act with a seasoned judge on the stand I’m not sure how much it helps

 

[Fun For All]

This young adult complainant is much more sexual experienced apparently than some of these defendants, it show and she initiated some of these sex acts. . There were only five guys that she consensual parted the lips of her mouth and the lips between her legs to accommodated. In this consensual gang bang she didn’t enjoy all of it, and was latter overcome with remorse and shame apparently.
If there were additional guys, it seems that, she might have willing done them too. Evidence seems to show that was no coercion for her to do what she did and she was free to leave at any but choose to stay until the last dick was satiated, even for a second time.
Yes these defendants attempted to orchestrate a “coverup “ after the consensual gang bang , a “coverup “ for damage control but not to obscure a crime as there is a distinction which the courts will see.
.
The punishment that these defendants idiots have received is persona grata status with ensuing loss of wage potential and criminal convictions should happen.
Again, this complainant does a disservice to legitimate victims of sexual in the Canadian Judicial System.

ps I think you are aware that the Crown will not find these guys guilty !

I disagree with everything you said...except calling them idiots.

 

[lomotil]

I’m not sure if they targeted her…I live in London, Jacks is a university bar, lots of meets and hookups, lots of young people…McLeod was the only guy that left with a girl…I don’t think the gang action was planned.

The complainant was in the bar that night to get fucked and she did so consensual. She unexpectedly hit the jack pot though and wanted retribution for the consensual gang bang which went wrong, obviously very wrong .ok !

Wow I don't even know where to start with this.
How did you draw these conclusions from the factual evidence so far.
I could say that these guys targeted this girl at the bar , maybe she seemed the most drunk there that night, they're in a small town for a night only , maybe they talked about and planned it, and fugured she'd forget about it the next day
But I have no proof to support this

The complainant was in the bar that night to get fucked and she did so consensual. She unexpectedly hit the jack pot though and wanted then retribution for the consensual gang bang which went wrong, obviously very wrong .ok !
After one guy had sex with her, he signalled by electronic invitations for other guys to join in and she acquiesced without any protest or at least any that has been introduced so far as evidence .that will be able to convict the defendants. The Crown has a weak case that is getting weaker and weaker and they know it !
The conduct of the defendants could be seen in many circle as deplorable, egregious and disgusting but not criminal.
Alcohol was a factor but enough for a criminal conviction. This was not this complainant’s “ first rodeo” and she seem to have developed a relative high alcohol tolerance by the time that this consensual dalliance occurred.
Not behaving like a “gentleman “ is not in the criminal code .

 

[Fun For All]

The complainant was in the bar that night to get fucked and she did so consensual. She unexpectedly hit the jack pot though and wanted retribution for the consensual gang bang which went wrong, obviously very wrong .ok !


The complainant was in the bar that night to get fucked and she did so consensual. She unexpectedly hit the jack pot though and wanted then retribution for the consensual gang bang which went wrong, obviously very wrong .ok !
After one guy had sex with her, he signalled by electronic invitations for other guys to join in and she acquiesced without any protest or at least any that has been introduced so far as evidence .that will be able to convict the defendants. The Crown has a weak case that is getting weaker and weaker and they know it !
The conduct of the defendants could be seen in many circle as deplorable, egregious and disgusting but not criminal.
Alcohol was a factor but enough for a criminal conviction. This was not this complainant’s “ first rodeo” and she seem to have developed a relative high alcohol tolerance by the time that this consensual dalliance occurred.
Not behaving like a “gentleman “ is not in the criminal code .

You are wrong everytime you comment on this...

 

[lomotil]

I disagree with everything you said...except calling them idiots.

I am quite confident that the good judge‘s findings and verdict will agree more or less what my arguments and conclusion but with more gentle and far less inflammatory and crass wording ok based on the evidence presented so far.

 

[Fun For All]

I am quite confident that the good judge‘s findings and verdict will agree more or less what my arguments and conclusion but with more gentle and far less inflammatory and crass wording ok based on the evidence presented so far.

They might get off but not for any reason you've given.

 

[lomotil]

You are wrong everytime you comment on this...

I strongly believe that the judgement will be “ not guilty” due to the reasons that I mentioned and the Crown is going to have a hell of a time getting a conviction.

 

[lomotil]

They might get off but not for any reason you've given.

And for what reason(s) might they not be convicted as charged that I have not mentioned ?
Please elaborate