Report: 93% of Polled Arab Residents of Jerusalem Prefer Israeli Rule to Palestinian Authority

[basketcase]

I gave you the international definition with a linked quote.
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Which is bullshit. it is not a law in any country I have ever heard of so therefore Arab Israelis never lost that 'right'. But if you are such a believer in Self-determination, why are you so against Jewish Israelis also applying that 'right'?

Arab Israelis overwhelmingly want to continue being Israelis just like 93% of East Jerusalem Palestinians want Jerusalem to stay under Israeli control. You are just upset that non-white people dare to disagree with what you want to impose on them.

 

[basketcase]

Did you read that part?

LOL. Thanks for the laugh.

Try reading what is actually being said instead of just making up your own version. 79 of the 1200 people surveyed would rather live under the PA but don't want to give up their Israeli residency.

 

[Frankfooter]

Which is bullshit. it is not a law in any country I have ever heard of so therefore Arab Israelis never lost that 'right'. But if you are such a believer in Self-determination, why are you so against Jewish Israelis also applying that 'right'?

Why would I be against Jewish Israelis having the same basic human rights as Palestinians?
Answer - I wouldn't.

I'm for equal rights, while you seem to be happy with the apartheid way of lesser human rights for some based on race/religion.

Arab Israelis overwhelmingly want to continue being Israelis just like 93% of East Jerusalem Palestinians want Jerusalem to stay under Israeli control. You are just upset that non-white people dare to disagree with what you want to impose on them.

The poll asked them if they would be willing to give up their identity cards to join Palestinians as stateless refugees in Occupied Palestine.
Are you surprised hardly any of them wanted to give up some of their few rights?

 

[basketcase]

Why would I be against Jewish Israelis having the same basic human rights as Palestinians?
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Could be the same reason why you tick so many of the boxes in Canada's definition of antisemitism?

But sorry, if you think Palestinians should have self determination then so should Israelis. Israelis are clear (including Arab Israelis) that they want to be Israeli and Palestinians are clear that they don't want to be Israelis.

If you really supported an egalitarian One State peace, you would have to admit that Jews should have the same rights to be in the West Bank as Palestinians. Instead you claim Jews in the West bank are valid targets of "self defence". If you also believed in it, you would be critical of Palestinians who overwhelmingly reject the idea. Of course you only criticize Israel despite only 6% of Palestinians preferring that possibility.

 

[basketcase]

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The poll asked them if they would be willing to give up their identity cards to join Palestinians as stateless refugees in Occupied Palestine.
Are you surprised hardly any of them wanted to give up some of their few rights?

So you admit you couldn't understand what the poll said and now make up new bullshit.

 

[Frankfooter]

LOL. Thanks for the laugh.

Try reading what is actually being said instead of just making up your own version. 79 of the 1200 people surveyed would rather live under the PA but don't want to give up their Israeli residency.

Here's the google translation, which I don't trust fully of course.

The sample included 1,200 Arab residents of Jerusalem and holding a blue Israeli ID. The respondents' response was that 1,116 prefer the survival of Israeli rule in the city.
While 84 people answered that they prefer the transfer of power to the Palestinian Authority.

When the 84 people were asked about their willingness to give up the identity they now hold, 79 of them answered that they refuse to give up the identity they now hold.
Only 5 people answered that they would prefer to carry the Palestinian Authority ID

That reads as only 5 of the 1,116 polled would give up their identity cards to live under PA rule, 79 would live under PA rule with their blue cards and only 5 would give up the rights that go along with the blue card.
Sounds like they all don't want to live with the second worse form of apartheid under Israeli rule, with Gaza being the worst, the West Bank second and Jerusalem/Israel being the least bad form of apartheid.

Congrats, that must make you feel warm inside.

 

[Frankfooter]

Could be the same reason why you tick so many of the boxes in Canada's definition of antisemitism?

Zero boxes, by your terms, criticizing Israeli policy is not antisemitic.
You just want to stop debate.

But sorry, if you think Palestinians should have self determination then so should Israelis. Israelis are clear (including Arab Israelis) that they want to be Israeli and Palestinians are clear that they don't want to be Israelis.

If you really supported an egalitarian One State peace, you would have to admit that Jews should have the same rights to be in the West Bank as Palestinians. Instead you claim Jews in the West bank are valid targets of "self defence". If you also believed in it, you would be critical of Palestinians who overwhelmingly reject the idea. Of course you only criticize Israel despite only 6% of Palestinians preferring that possibility.

You're mixing cases here.
1) At present Israel is illegally occupying Palestine. Until there is a one or two state solution and the occupation continues, Palestinians have a right to self defence. That's why I support ending the occupation, so both sides can stop fighting.

2) Yes, under a one state solution I would support Palestinians and Jews would have the same rights, including the right to live where they like. I think the one state solution would be better but the two state solution would be fine if both sides agreed. Once they do, then yes, under a one state solution Palestinians would have the right to live in Israel proper and Jewish Israelis would have the right to live in Gaza and the West Bank. And Palestinians would have to have the same right to return as Jews give themselves right now.

Why are you so against equal rights?

 

[basketcase]

Zero boxes, by your terms, criticizing Israeli policy is not antisemitic.
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Just keep ignoring Canada's definition of anti-semitism if it's uncomfortable for you to look in the mirror.

The rest of your post is just the same old trash where you demand self-determination for Palestinians but not for Jews. More importantly, it's laughable you keep talking about Palestinian rights while ignoring the fact that overwhelmingly reject a One State peace.

 

[basketcase]

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The sample included 1,200 Arab residents of Jerusalem and holding a blue Israeli ID. The respondents' response was that 1,116 prefer the survival of Israeli rule in the city.
While 84 people answered that they prefer the transfer of power to the Palestinian Authority.

When the 84 people were asked about their willingness to give up the identity they now hold, 79 of them answered that they refuse to give up the identity they now hold.
Only 5 people answered that they would prefer to carry the Palestinian Authority ID
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Look at you grasping at straws to justify ignoring what Arabs want.

Overwhelmingly, the Arabs who live in East Jerusalem want Israel to keep ruling there. I would describe that as self-determination.

 

[Frankfooter]

Just keep ignoring Canada's definition of anti-semitism if it's uncomfortable for you to look in the mirror.

The rest of your post is just the same old trash where you demand self-determination for Palestinians but not for Jews. More importantly, it's laughable you keep talking about Palestinian rights while ignoring the fact that overwhelmingly reject a One State peace.

First, I have never said the right of self determination is anything but a universal right that all peoples and religions should enjoy.

Now:

Palestinians are semites, as well.

Your definition, which is being pushed by a right wing Israeli government and fought by multiple groups says this:
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, eg by claiming that the existence of a state of Israel is a racist endeavour,

Israel's Nation State Law denies the Palestinian the right self determination in a much worse form, by law and force.
Here we have Israel's only national newspaper stating that Israel is apartheid, which would make that entire paper antisemites by your definition.

Nation-state law essentially establishes apartheid regime | Opinion | Opinion

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www.haaretz.com

Which all of a sudden should make you an antisemite, for supporting the state of Israel's removal of the right of self determination for Palestinians living under Israeli rule.
That's what your law and definition is doing. That definition is designed to shut down debate about Israeli apartheid and basic human rights.

IHRA Definition At Work

(Photo credit: Stephan Savoia/AP Photo) Compiled by Rowan Gaudet, IJV-Montreal IJV is documenting examples in several countries of where the IHRA definition has been used, or significant attempts have been made, to cancel events or silence Palestine solidarity movements. Below is a complete li

www.ijvcanada.org

Careful what you wish for.
Using the IHRA definition makes you, 45% of those living under Israeli rule who say Israel is apartheid, 25% of US Jews who say Israel is apartheid, B'tselem and Haaretz and so many others are now 'antisemites'.

Join IJVCanada and myself in a call for equal rights, the end of the occupation and end of apartheid.
And the end of the use of the IHRA defintion.

 

[Frankfooter]

Look at you grasping at straws to justify ignoring what Arabs want.

Overwhelmingly, the Arabs who live in East Jerusalem want Israel to keep ruling there. I would describe that as self-determination.

Like I said, they don't want to give up their blue cards and become stateless refugees.
A new poll of Arab residents of Jerusalem by a Palestinian media outlet found that 93% of them prefer to remain under Israeli rule and would not give up their Israeli identity card.

 

[basketcase]

First, I have never said the right of self determination is anything but a universal right that all peoples and religions should enjoy.
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Yet you complain Jews in Israel wanting to use that self determination is racist while at the same time claiming it's an essential right for Palestinians.

More importantly, why do you ignore that Israeli Arabs, overwhelmingly want to remain Israeli, East Jerusalem Arabs want Israeli control of Jerusalem, and Palestinians don't want to be Israeli.

That sums up the self-determination topic.

 

[basketcase]

Like I said, they don't want to give up their blue cards and become stateless refugees.
A new poll of Arab residents of Jerusalem by a Palestinian media outlet found that 93% of them prefer to remain under Israeli rule and would not give up their Israeli identity card.

You conveniently skipped the part where they want East Jerusalem to remain under Israeli rule.

 

[basketcase]

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Using the IHRA definition makes you, 45% of those living under Israeli rule who say Israel ...

It's amazing you keep claiming that when the actual survey data says something very different.

https://www.btselem.org/download/btselem_survey_data_april_2021_eng.xls

 

[Frankfooter]

Yet you complain Jews in Israel wanting to use that self determination is racist while at the same time claiming it's an essential right for Palestinians.

More importantly, why do you ignore that Israeli Arabs, overwhelmingly want to remain Israeli, East Jerusalem Arabs want Israeli control of Jerusalem, and Palestinians don't want to be Israeli.

That sums up the self-determination topic.

Israel is apartheid.

So yes, it is racist and apartheid that Israel gives the right of self determination by law only to Jews and not to Palestinians.
As you stated, its not only racist but apartheid when their are laws that assign human rights by race, and yes, its fair to complain about apartheid laws.

East Jerusalem Arabs don't want to give up the few rights they have and give up their blue cards to live as stateless refugees in the West Bank and Gaza.
That's because its more apartheid there.

You are now complaining that its unfair to expect equal rights.

 

[Frankfooter]

It's amazing you keep claiming that when the actual survey data says something very different.

https://www.btselem.org/download/btselem_survey_data_april_2021_eng.xls

View attachment 111402

The chart you posted agrees with the summary finding posted by B'tselem.
It says that 27% + 18%, or 45% of all those living under Israeli rule say Israel is apartheid.

Your chart also shows that 77% of Palestinians living under Israeli rule think its apartheid.
77%!

New all population Israeli-Palestinian survey: 45% of those living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea believe “apartheid” is an appropriate description of the regime

 

[basketcase]

Israel is apartheid.
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You sound like Phil screaming masks are useless.

You keep lying about that survey and you keep ignoring the desires of Palestinians. Quite obviously your only interest in the conflict is harming Israel and it's Jewish population. Only you would translate "doesn't really fit" as "it's completely true.

Again, Israeli Arabs CHOOSE to be Israeli, East Jerusalem Arabs WANT Israel to remain in charge, and West Bank/Gaza Palestinians DON'T WANT to be Israeli. Self determination at work.

 

[Frankfooter]

You keep lying about that survey

Nope, I keep quoting the headline and linking directly to the survey while you keep trying to pretend it doesn't say 45% of those living under Israeli rule say its apartheid. Is it because you don't think those Palestinians views count?

You can't accuse me of lying when I directly quote the source and link to the survey, like I'm doing right now:
New all population Israeli-Palestinian survey: 45% of those living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea believe “apartheid” is an appropriate description of the regime

Quite obviously your only interest in the conflict is harming Israel and it's Jewish population. Only you would translate "doesn't really fit" as "it's completely true.

Ah, that trope you like to push that equal rights would harm the Jewish population because you, like cantaro, have hateful views of Palestinians.
Rwanda got over their genocide, South Africa got past apartheid.
Why do you think Palestinians and Jews are lesser peoples that they can't do what those peoples have done?

Israel is apartheid.
If you are against racism you have a moral duty to stand against apartheid.
Its time for you to stand up against racism.

 

[basketcase]

Nope, I keep quoting the headline ...

Which is obviously biased bullshit. That's why rational people look at the actual data instead of media spin.

This is the actual data which is a very different picture than what your headline tries to portray.



And still waiting for you to explain how you back Palestinians self-determination and Palestinian rights while completely rejecting what they want.

 

[Frankfooter]

Which is obviously biased bullshit. That's why rational people look at the actual data instead of media spin.

This is the actual data which is a very different picture than what your headline tries to portray.
View attachment 112004


And still waiting for you to explain how you back Palestinians self-determination and Palestinian rights while completely rejecting what they want.

The headline you claim is 'obviously biased' posts the numbers you include in your chart.
B'tselem says that the 27% of 'very much fits' and 18% of 'somewhat fits' means that 45% of those living under Israeli rule say its apartheid.

The headline is backed up by the numbers you posted, basketcase.

Now we're at the point of about half the people who live under Israeli rule saying Israel is apartheid and you saying that they are antisemitic for saying so.
Even though that chart says that 25% of Israeli Jews say Israel is apartheid. Which means you think 25% of Israeli Jews fit your definition of antisemitic.