Repeal of Obamacare crashes and burns

[oldjones]

I agree. The problem though is the GOP itself isn't unified. They are trying to create some weird bill that both the right wing extremists and the moderate Republicans can support and it isn't going to happen, they don't agree with each other.

If McConnell stops trying to exclude Democrats the moderate Republicans could easily find enough Democrats to pass a good overhaul that would be popular and sail through both houses.

Or maybe McConnell is the problem and should be replaced by someone more willing to reach out across the aisle and make deals.

The Republican Big Tent isn't big enough to have sufficient numbers to pass anything unless they unite. A legislature less committed to winner/loser politics might have a hope of getting things done. Similarly a bill that divided only a few fringe member from the majority could likely hope for enough opposition votes to make up the difference.

But this particular plank runs right down the middle of the platform, and every accommodation to one side will lose votes on the other. If the moderate Republicans 'replace' all their hard-line colleagues with Democrats, what sort of Party do they have? And what painful price or punishment will their erstwhile colleagues extract in revenge? Never mind what the Democrats will bargain for.

Both Parties exist more as coalitions of expediency to win elections and maximize benefit from dominating the losers than to get legislation — never mind good legislation — passed. While I'm sure you're right about the size and opinion of the part of the Senate that would and could vote for a functional and significant bill that truly delivered healthcare, as the parties exist today, I can't see what's in it for those Senators. Or for the Party leadership they'd have to deal with.

Best bet will be a third — or is it fourth — kick at the can so no one has to own up to actual incompetence and utter failure. But it won't be useful or adequate, and will cost billions without providing benefits in any significant degree. Becuase it'll be about getting the right number of votes from 538 Washington Party hacks, not about serving the people, or even offering them clear ideas, policies or platforms.

"Just pick a winner folks!! And pay no attention to the Man behind the Curtain"

 

[bver_hunter]

I'm sorry we disagree in this Aardie. I think Congress is still bought by Big Med. They are calling the shots with enough to kill a proper solution.

And no President can get it done solely by will and popularity.

You and Aardie are right in the sense that Congress and the USA Health care is controlled by the Pharmaceutical as well as insurance companies. But Aardie is right about Trump's campaign where on umpteen occasions he categorically said that he would "repeal Obamacare" and replace it with a "simple, more affordable system, at a fraction of the price and available to ALL Americans". So did he not have a clue of the scale of task, or was he plain lying to his base? It has to be one or the other. Presently 51% of the Americans have a more positive perspective of the Affordable Healthcare. So he better get his working boots on and work with the Democrats to improve the system. Repealing Obamacare is going to be a disaster to many Americans who have benefited and survived from some debilitating illnesses.

 

[Insidious Von]

What fuji suggested is never going to happen, Rand Paul and his Freedom Cockus want nothing less than the complete erasure of "that Muslim nigger's" legacy. Even Michelle Obama's education initiatives for poor neighbourhoods have been rolled back, dirty Muslim whore. However very complex legislation like The Affordable Health Care Act is impossible to repeal, it remains to be seen how many Americans will die before the GOP comes to term with this.

And the GOP should be very careful in giving the wealthy more tax cuts. After the British Conservatives won a majority in 2015, Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne implemented generous tax cuts for the rich. And look what happened!

 

[IM469]

Too bad it'd known more by the nick-name Obama care then it's official title 'Affordable Care Act' which makes it's more a target to destroy than to repair. Any heath care act is going to have problems, it would make more sense to amend/ evolve the act as a bi-partisan effort to address the needs of the public instead of the respective party needs. Both sides know what has to be done.

 

[cye]

One can argue about the semantics, however, the fact remains that when you promise that with your business experience you can make the American Healthcare system much better and much more affordable and then send absolutely no draft legislation up to Capital Hill, you have abdicated your responsibility and not lived up to your promises.

He never cared about responsibility it was always about winning. His disinterest in the details is crippling but the assholes in the GOP who promised better care at lower prices with tax cuts without instituting a single payer system to control costs are now paying the price for their dishonesty. This would be funny if so many people weren't suffering with the prospect of worse to come hanging over them.

Trump was never qualified to lead and anyone who says differently is an idiot.

 

[SchlongConery]

He never cared about responsibility it was always about winning.

Exactly.

 

[fuji]

Your last sentence is the point I'm trying to make Fuji. The President doesn't work in a vacuum.

And in a way Trump is also right about walking away. It seems due to ideology the only way to get them to compromise is a cliff.

You can say he is walking away from his responsibility and on the surface that is correct. But Congress hasn't really listened to the President in the modern era except for a war vote in decades. If ever. And health care is the biggest beast beyond that. So much money has been used to buy enough of the them to keep it private.

And there just won't be a good private solution. You can't use private business to give health care for all and maintain affordability AND profitability.

So long as Big Med is paying bills they won't allow a single payer solution. They killed it in California and they will continue to kill it Federally.

Trump campaigned on this, he doesn't get to walk away, he owns it even if he's fleeing. As Aardy said he CLAIMED to have better ideas. Where are his ideas???

The reason Congress is floundering is there's no direction coming from Trump. He's playing golf while he's supposed to be sending a bill to Congress. Or at least an idea. Or somebody he hired with an idea. He should be selling it to the people and cajoling Congress to get behind it. But nothing. No ideas, just vapid useless tweets.

He's a failure. He isn't doing anything. He doesn't have a clue how to do the job and he's horrible at it.

 

[fuji]

I'm sorry we disagree in this Aardie. I think Congress is still bought by Big Med. They are calling the shots with enough to kill a proper solution.

And no President can get it done solely by will and popularity.

To get something done first you have to try to do something. What has Trump done? Has he proposed any idea here? Has he hired anyone to do that?

Nope.

Fuck all coming from the Whitehouse.

 

[Butler1000]

To get something done first you have to do something. What has Trump done? Has he proposed any idea here? Has he hired anyone to do that?

Nope.

Fuck all coming from the Whitehouse.

And without a Congress willing to do it? Make no mistake Fuji, there are Reps on both sides working to prevent a deal, both for ideoligal and monetary reasons. Your middle ground party members are both not enough and mythical in the end. They have bought enough votes to prevent anything but gridlock.

There are not enough Senate seats at any time for any reasonable legislation to pass a reasoned bill that will benefit the American People. And that's it.

Trump may be playing a longer game. He needs to get a wall and trade deals done. That gives him something for the base. In the meantime let Congress continue to squabble over healthcare through the midterms. He won't look bad and he isn't up for re election then.

So either the seats remain unchanged, or he loses one of the houses and the game is up. Honestly he can't control that at this point so he is moving on. In the meantime Obamacare can succeed or fail on its merits.

If obamacare is so good it should stay. If not the Trump was right, Obama was wrong and he can ride in. But as its a domestic issue involving the purse strings it really is on Congress to sort this out. That's how the politics work. President is the lead on foreign policy with the power to act while Congress controls the domestic agenda in the end.

Yup fuck all from the whitehouse. For a generation on this.

 

[danmand]

It is very simple. The people want universal healthcare for everybody. Obamacare was a step on the way. It is actually a good sign that it is impossible to repeal. That means that elected official afterall listens to the people, or at least some of them do.

 

[SchlongConery]

And without a Congress willing to do it? Make no mistake Fuji, there are Reps on both sides working to prevent a deal, both for ideoligal and monetary reasons. Your middle ground party members are both not enough and mythical in the end. They have bought enough votes to prevent anything but gridlock.

There are not enough Senate seats at any time for any reasonable legislation to pass a reasoned bill that will benefit the American People. And that's it. .

Except that Trump did not put forth anything. He campaigned on this great "plan" he had that would get more people insured for more things and for way less money.

He had no such "plan".

What the Republican's (not Trump) put forward was rushed, not well researched nor rationalized. It was simply Anti-Obama andpro-​nothing.

 

[cye]

Exactly.

For himself

 

[Aardvark154]

Trump did go out of his way for this. He called all the GOP senators to the Whitehouse and demanded they vote for it. He begged and pleaded. He threatened.

He was ignored

But that in large measure is because the Administration did not take the time and effort to craft legislation which would have attracted bipartisan support. Obamacare took eight months, how are you going to get a decent replacement in any less time.

 

[Insidious Von]

It is very simple. The people want universal healthcare for everybody. Obamacare was a step on the way. It is actually a good sign that it is impossible to repeal. That means that elected official afterall listens to the people, or at least some of them do.

Possibly, except for one problem - the people are stupid. Four decades of public education cuts and the folks get dumb. They want universal health care without paying taxes.

 

[mandrill]

But that in large measure is because the Administration did not take the time and effort to craft legislation which would have attracted bipartisan support. Obamacare took eight months, how are you going to get a decent replacement in any less time.

"Time and effort" cuts into Trumpie's golf weekends and TV watching. Your expectations are out of line.

 

[jcpro]

But that in large measure is because the Administration did not take the time and effort to craft legislation which would have attracted bipartisan support. Obamacare took eight months, how are you going to get a decent replacement in any less time.

Come on... Do you honestly believe there can be any bipartisan support on the health care issue, if it originated in the White House? The Obama Care is a singular achievement of the past administration and any Democrat who would support replacement would be slaughtered in the primaries, crucified in the media and would not be able to raise enough money for a coffee and a danish. The Obama Care will be dismantled exactly the same way it was passed. Along the party lines.

 

[toguy5252]

Come on... Do you honestly believe there can be any bipartisan support on the health care issue, if it originated in the White House? The Obama Care is a singular achievement of the past administration and any Democrat who would support replacement would be slaughtered in the primaries, crucified in the media and would not be able to raise enough money for a coffee and a danish. The Obama Care will be dismantled exactly the same way it was passed. Along the party lines.

Anything which starts with lets repeal and then ... will never get bipartisan support. If it starts with lets tray and fix the ACA I think the Dems will join in. Whether or not a deal can be made is a different story.

 

[fuji]

And without a Congress willing to do it? Make no mistake Fuji, there are Reps on both sides working to prevent a deal, both for ideoligal and monetary reasons. Your middle ground party members are both not enough and mythical in the end. They have bought enough votes to prevent anything but gridlock.

There are not enough Senate seats at any time for any reasonable legislation to pass a reasoned bill that will benefit the American People. And that's it.

Trump may be playing a longer game. He needs to get a wall and trade deals done. That gives him something for the base. In the meantime let Congress continue to squabble over healthcare through the midterms. He won't look bad and he isn't up for re election then.

So either the seats remain unchanged, or he loses one of the houses and the game is up. Honestly he can't control that at this point so he is moving on. In the meantime Obamacare can succeed or fail on its merits.

If obamacare is so good it should stay. If not the Trump was right, Obama was wrong and he can ride in. But as its a domestic issue involving the purse strings it really is on Congress to sort this out. That's how the politics work. President is the lead on foreign policy with the power to act while Congress controls the domestic agenda in the end.

Yup fuck all from the whitehouse. For a generation on this.

You know why Obamacare is called Obamacare? Because he championed an idea and pushed Congress to pass it. Congress made a bunch of stupid changes which are the current problems that need fixing, but Obama peddled a big idea, sold that idea to the public, and it got passed because congressmen knew their constituents wanted it.

Trump has not done this.

He has not championed any idea. He has done NOTHING.

So it's no wonder Congress is fumbling. There's no leadership coming from the Whitehouse, no direction, no plan, nothing being championed by the president.

So when Representatives check with their constituents they do not hear anyone clamoring for them to get this done because nobody knows what it is.

For this to happen Trump has to get in front of it. He has to have an idea and go on TV and tell everybody how great this idea is and get people interested in his idea. Then Congress will get something done because people will demand it.

The things is Trump actually has no idea. He's all about bragging how great he is but when the rubber meets the road he's got nothing. Nothing. And nothing.

He isn't doing the job.

 

[fuji]

But that in large measure is because the Administration did not take the time and effort to craft legislation which would have attracted bipartisan support. Obamacare took eight months, how are you going to get a decent replacement in any less time.

I agree with you. I'm sure there are Republican thinkers who have ideas about how healthcare could work, right or wrong. Somebody, ideally the President, needs to be talking to the public about those ideas, explaining why it's the right way forward, and then pushing Congress to support it. It still could fail but that's the only way big changes happen.

Otherwise all Congress every does is fine tuning.

 

[fuji]

Come on... Do you honestly believe there can be any bipartisan support on the health care issue, if it originated in the White House? The Obama Care is a singular achievement of the past administration and any Democrat who would support replacement would be slaughtered in the primaries, crucified in the media and would not be able to raise enough money for a coffee and a danish. The Obama Care will be dismantled exactly the same way it was passed. Along the party lines.

Why not? Trump once said if the Republicans wouldn't nominate him he would run without them. Why is he married to a GOP only bill? Why not scrounge up votes from reform minded people in both parties and ignore the Republican and Democratic leadership, just get it done?