Like religion and believing in a God, some people just can't comprehend certain events in life and need something else to hold onto, in order to make sense of it.
Remembering 9/11
- Thread starter Insidious Von
- Start date
In theory,...anyway,...
Since you have also repeatedly claimed, you are "educated", what ever the fuck that means, it should be child's play for you to "work out" the high school psychics for us all.
Please honour us with your results, we all await you reply.
FAST
No,...THE point is,.. you have made another one of your grand, unsubstantiated proclamations.
Since you have also repeatedly claimed, you are "educated", what ever the fuck that means, it should be child's play for you to "work out" the high school psychics for us all.
Please honour us with your results, we all await you reply.
FAST
This intrigued me basketcase! Found this: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/when-the-twin-towers-fell/ I checked several other references and they are all use similar numbers.
Eduardo Kausel, a M.I.T. professor of civil and environmental engineering: "reported that he had made estimates of the amount of energy generated during the collapse of each tower. "The gravitational energy of a building is like water backed up behind a dam," he explained. When released, the accumulated potential energy is converted to kinetic energy. With a mass of about 500,000 tons (5 x 108 kilograms), a height of about 1,350 ft. (411 meters), and the acceleration of gravity at 9.8 meters per second^2, he came up with a potential energy total of 1019 ergs (10^12 Joules or 278 Megawatt-hours). "That's about 1 percent of the energy released by a small atomic bomb," he noted."
Little Boy was 63 TJ or 17500 Megawatt-hours (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy) That means the total energy of the collapse of a single tower was about 1.6% of the Hiroshima bomb. That's friggin staggering! Since half of NYC wasn't completely leveled, that means all that energy stayed in the little ground zero area!!
What I don't fully appreciate/understand is, what form did all that energy take?? From the 1st article above "Kausel concluded that the "the largest share of the kinetic energy was converted to heat, material rupture and deformation of the ground below." Like many of you, I watched all the eye-witness reports from ground zero. Many talk about the noise, vibration and dust and a few mention heat, but I would think .15 Kiloton of energy would generate ALLOT, ALLOT, ALLOT of heat. Surprisingly after the collapse there were no significant fires, or glowing mass of rubble or melted buildings next door or ground turned into glass ...... so ........ did the vast majority of the energy go into converting steel and concrete into talcum powder?
Just for the record, I'm not proposing a conspiracy theory here. I'm genuinely interested in the science - what form did all that energy take??
Side note, this discussion supports Fuji's melted steel opinions and makes FAST look even more foolish.
Ask and you shall be spoon fed: http://www.911myths.com/WTCREPORT.pdf
I can provide several other reputable sources that support the math from this report. Look at the math closely, it's all basic stuff we learned in high school. Well ...... those of us that finished high school FAST.
Before you mouth off,...you should return grade school,...and learn how to read.
The numbers in your useless cut and past,...does NOT even come close to agreeing with basketcase's assumption,...and fuji's grand proclamation.
Let me know, if and when you graduate.
FAST
LOLOL. How do they "not even come close"?? The math is basic multiplication/division. The formula are high-school level. The numbers have been provided to you, use a calculator if you must!
Basketcase stated "To be specific, the energy released by the collapse was not that much less than the first atomic bombs". --- The early bomb tests were between 1-20 KT, Hiroshima was 15KT and US nuclear artillery were .1KT and up. The energy of the collapse of both buildings is calculated as ~.3 Kiloton which is certainly the size of a small atomic bomb. Atomic bombs can absolutely melt steel.
Both Basketcase and Fuji are stating there was sufficient energy (heat) to have melted steel as the the structures collapsed. The energy was .3KT or the equivalent of 600,000 lbs of TNT. The physical proof at ground zero is undeniable, lots of steel was pulverized and melted.
The bio of the article's author:
Dr. Frank Greening
I have a Ph. D. in chemistry , but my official title for over 20 years was Senior Research Scientist at what used to be called Ontario Hydro and is now Ontario Power Generation. I was in charge of radioanalytical chemistry research and discovered all sorts of problems with OPG's CANDU reactors... [Google Frank Greenings name and you’ll find him described as a “nuclear whistle-blower”]. I have published scientific articles in the Journal of Molecular Spectroscopy, Canadian Journal of Physics, Chemical Physics Letters, Journal of Nuclear Materials, etc. I even worked with the great Nobel prize winning spectroscopist, Gerhard Herzberg, for 2 years back in the 1970s.
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This is an really good thread with lots of interesting/informative debate and I enjoy the fun insults, but you are starting to regularly cross the line with many, many people. You've aggressively insulted 18 people in just the last 3-4 days and this has become your MO. You really need to turn it down - allot.
If you look at my previous posts, I've debated Fuji's BS on quite a few technical-based posts where I have some interest or expertise. Never did we drop down to your level of language or personal attacks.
The molten iron was spotted before the collapse, gallons of it pouring out the building. Its bright orange with white smoke, the white smoke is a characteristic of a reaction because molten metal does not produce smoke. What type of reaction creates molten metal? Iron oxide and alluminum that is thermite.
Buliding is still standing, jet fuel can't melt steel even at its maximum temperature.
It is thermite either in the buildings or on the planes, but even if it was on the planes it still leaves questions un answered.
And try to be more mature with your responses, you dont need to be losing your shit, doesn't add anymore credibility or validity to your arguments.
Who flew up and tested the metal?The molten iron was spotted before the collapse, gallons of it pouring out the building. Its bright orange with white smoke, the white smoke is a characteristic of a reaction because molten metal does not produce smoke. What type of reaction creates molten metal? Iron oxide and alluminum that is thermite.
Buliding is still standing, jet fuel can't melt steel even at its maximum temperature.
It is thermite either in the buildings or on the planes, but even if it was on the planes it still leaves questions un answered.
And try to be more mature with your responses, you dont need to be losing your shit, doesn't add anymore credibility or validity to your arguments.
I call bullshit.
See the post above about the inanity of a conspiracy theory that requires piloting a plane into exactly the right floors that have been wired with explosives, and having those explosives NOT go off until an hour or two later.
It's beyond dumb. It never happened and use just a stupid claim with no possibility of being true.
Is it the same colour as a light bulb ? Would you suggest that the light from a light bulb is melting steel ? How about the sun - a big ball of molten steel ?
Without a spectral analysis - it is a guess. The picture below is molten glass:
Different items give off different light depending on their temperature as well as the composition. I have no idea what was melting - glass from the building, material that was used as insulation, items in a storage near the area that was burning, liquid gold, etc. I do find it hard to understand how the beams holding the floors could be liquefying and still have the strength to hold the floor up.
Here is a 4 min video that debunks your picture and theory. Can you debunk it's points?
In summary:
1) The molten metal is most likely aluminum which melts at 887F to 1184F. The 9/11 fires were burning at 1800F for 49 minutes before the molten metal was photographed.
2) The aircraft had 141,000 lbs of aluminum. The office space would have aluminum furniture and fixtures.
3) Plane debris was piled in the area where the molten metal was photographed
4) Reports from NIST, FEMA and MIT support the aluminum theory
5) The aircraft crashed on floor 81 and the molten metal is seen dripping from floor 80 just below the main debris area.
6) According to the provided chart in the video, at 1800F the aluminum would have been the photographed colour (alternate info: http://www.hearth.com/talk/wiki/know-temperature-when-metal-glows-red/)
7) The estimated amount of thermite required to cause the demolition would have to be ~60 tons. How did the bad-guys hide the transport of the material to the 81st floor, installation, wiring of 60 tons of material and all the people required to perform the work from a building full of people?
8) The molten material is only photographed in a few locations, not from a large quantity of support beams. If thermite was used to sever many support beams, should we not be seeing molten metal from many locations?
Although my quoted info is not 100% guaranteed as correct either, it's much more plausible than the thermite theory. Can you imagine the effort required to remove drywall from office walls, drill holes in columns, install the thermite, wire it back to a central controller (involves fishing wires, removing ceiling tiles, more drilling, etc.), test, close the walls up, paint, clean the dust, remove all the packing materials all from 10PM to 5AM, even if spread out over several weeks or months. We are talking 100s of columns and 60 tons of materials and lots of people.
Glass melts orange/yellow at 1600F, the 9/11 fires were 1800F. Are you suggesting that the evil-doers snuck in 25+ tons of glass, hide it around the support columns (may be disguised as beer bottles from a previous office party) and then arranged for a very precise hit from an aircraft knowing that the glass would eventually melt and bring down the towers? I like it!
And yet with all that heat people were still able to make their way out of the building up until the building collapsed? How is that possible?
What I am saying that the stored gravitation energy in the building was massive. I calculated it a while back to be slightly less than the atomic bombs. And yes, GPE becomes Kinetic Energy which becomes heat energy through friction and internal deformation.
I have no idea if that heat energy was concentrated enough to cause metal to melt but I have also seen no credible evidence that structural steel actually melted.
Then you just happened to post the exact same unsourced nonsense as another member.
Grief gives them no more insight than any other outside observer. In fact the emotional component may make them less likely to accept things that don't fit their assumed beliefs.
They could have disguised the glass as windows ....
I am pointing out that you can't know what it was without testing ... you didn't like the liquid gold idea ?? They could have lined the crates holding 60 tons of explosives with gold to confuse the guards would had to do the inspections when you entered the building.
What good is a conspiracy theory if you have to make it plausible ?
Molten glass is thick and slow like lava it would not drip out at that consistency. Molten aluminum doesn't glow a bright orange it looks exactly the same in its molten state. So does lead.
That is molten iron or you are welcome to say its molten a36 supports which also would glow orange.
That is molten iron or you are welcome to say its molten a36 supports which also would glow orange.
