Rebuilding The GOP

[Darts]

It is happening as we speak. Led by McConnell and Cheney they are putting the final nails in the Trump era.

Liz Cheney is the daughter of Dick Cheney. Wonder if she has presidential ambitions?

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Jordan calls on
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Liz Cheney, No. 3 House Republican, to vote to impeach ...
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16 hours ago — (CNN) Wyoming Republican Rep. Liz Cheney, the party's third-ranking House leader, announced on Tuesday that she will vote to impeach ...

 

[Valcazar]

It is happening as we speak. Led by McConnell and Cheney they are putting the final nails in the Trump era.

Liz Cheney is the daughter of Dick Cheney. Wonder if she has presidential ambitions?

Yes.

Don't be sure it is final nails, though. The Corporate Board wing of the party is trying to nail that coffin shut, but I don't think it is going to be that easy.

 

[shack]

This is going to be exactly what Butler has been calling for. Tear down the party, start from scratch and re-establish what their policies and priorities should be.

Unfortunately, he was predicting this for the Dems when Bernie did not get in.

A hearty guffaw for Butler as the polar opposite happened.

 

[shakenbake]

as long as you have guys like Cruz and Hawley talking lies that they fully know as lie than those ignorant will follow. Those two graduated from top law schools, supreme court clerks. they know exactly whats going on. unfortunately they watched trump and see that is the path to power. As James Mattis said this week. judge someone moral and ethics first before you discuss policy.

Oh, what Lincoln’s party has become.

 

[Valcazar]

This is going to be exactly what Butler has been calling for. Tear down the party, start from scratch and re-establish what their policies and priorities should be.

Unfortunately, he was predicting this for the Dems when Bernie did not get in.

A hearty guffaw for Butler as the polar opposite happened.

To be fair to Butler, if the Corporate Kings win this fight for the GOP, there are probably some Democrats who will defect to that party as the more Progressive elements of the caucus become stronger. There are people voting Democrat and running as Democrats who are there because the racist, authoritarian, anti-democratic elements of the GOP are too much for them. But it would take the GOP showing that it really has put down the virus for them to jump ship so it won't happen immediately.

 

[Butler1000]

This is going to be exactly what Butler has been calling for. Tear down the party, start from scratch and re-establish what their policies and priorities should be.

Unfortunately, he was predicting this for the Dems when Bernie did not get in.

A hearty guffaw for Butler as the polar opposite happened.

Actually I'm happy to see this as well. It is The two party system and it's systemic corruption thats the issue.

And the REAL progressive caucus is starting to increase. Those two senators elected are pro universal healthcare. Add in a few more in the house.

The Sanders Campaigns have inspired a large increase in progressive candidates and wins at the State legislative level as well. The fundraising machine and new groups like Justice Democrats and the Sunshine Movement are learning how to get candidates through primaries and elected.

Meanwhile your love of grifters like the Lincoln Project just shows how easily fooled you are. They are Dinos at best, and will be the downfall or split of the Dems.

 

[Butler1000]

Yes.

Don't be sure it is final nails, though. The Corporate Board wing of the party is trying to nail that coffin shut, but I don't think it is going to be that easy.

We shall see when the primaries come up. If they install rules preventing candidates then they won. At least a few are going to run on a populist message again.

What that message is will depend on what Biden does or doesn't do in the first two years. I don't know what Senate seats are up in 2022 but that is where all the attention will end up. And that will drive House voting.

 

[Valcazar]

Meanwhile your love of grifters like the Lincoln Project just shows how easily fooled you are. They are Dinos at best, and will be the downfall or split of the Dems.

I'm letting the rest slide but this is fucking hilarious. Fickleness, thy name is Butler.

We shall see when the primaries come up. If they install rules preventing candidates then they won.

As usual, you are terrible with antecedents and clarity. Who are you referring two in the second sentence or the third?

It seems like you are saying that we will know if the Chamber of Commerce GOP types have won if they install rules preventing candidates. Is that what you are saying? Could you clarify what you mean here? All parties have rules requirements for candidates to run, so presumably you mean something more specific.

At least a few are going to run on a populist message again.

A few of whom? The Chamber of Commerce GOP faction? The Trumpists? The GOP in general?

What that message is will depend on what Biden does or doesn't do in the first two years. I don't know what Senate seats are up in 2022 but that is where all the attention will end up. And that will drive House voting.

Yes, the midterm will involve voting on the Senate and the House. Very observant.

 

[Butler1000]

I'm letting the rest slide but this is fucking hilarious. Fickleness, thy name is Butler.



As usual, you are terrible with antecedents and clarity. Who are you referring two in the second sentence or the third?

It seems like you are saying that we will know if the Chamber of Commerce GOP types have won if they install rules preventing candidates. Is that what you are saying? Could you clarify what you mean here? All parties have rules requirements for candidates to run, so presumably you mean something more specific.



A few of whom? The Chamber of Commerce GOP faction? The Trumpists? The GOP in general?



Yes, the midterm will involve voting on the Senate and the House. Very observant.

Trump ran and won because they have no qualifying rules. They may state running has to include party membership for a period of time, having held office, other methods to limit who can run. Or introduce Superdelegates like the Dems.

A few like Cruz if he goes again.

 

[Valcazar]

Trump ran and won because they have no qualifying rules. They may state running has to include party membership for a period of time, having held office, other methods to limit who can run. Or introduce Superdelegates like the Dems.

A few like Cruz if he goes again.

The Republicans may restore Superdelegates (I'm assuming you mean automatic and unbound and not just unbound.) They still have some of course, and the non-automatic unbound and since the Dem Superdelgates can no longer vote on the first round, the Republicans have more delegates who can ignore the voting in their state than the Dems do. They might change it in 2024 of course. Massively limiting their superdelegates in 2016 helped get them Trump (although it was really their use of the winner take all/winner take most format that did more damage) and I could see them wanting to add more back in. As for other requirements, I would be shocked. No party has ever done that as far as I know and I suspect the backlash would be huge. But I will agree with you on that - if somehow those rules suddenly showed up it would be a sign of the party elite having truly banded together to freeze out Trump-like challenges.

From your Cruz comment I assume you mean that the Trumpists would run "populist". Populist is super squishy of course, but if we are going with it meaning "run something that looks like the Trump playbook" then I fully expect to see a handful of people try it. Like I said, I see this is a the beginnings of a potential intra-party fight, not the end of one. If it really does break out into a fight at a higher intensity than the general "factions in the party disagree" that always exists then I don't see it being resolved by 2024. Maybe one side smashes the other quickly, but I doubt it.

 

[Butler1000]

The Republicans may restore Superdelegates (I'm assuming you mean automatic and unbound and not just unbound.) They still have some of course, and the non-automatic unbound and since the Dem Superdelgates can no longer vote on the first round, the Republicans have more delegates who can ignore the voting in their state than the Dems do. They might change it in 2024 of course. Massively limiting their superdelegates in 2016 helped get them Trump (although it was really their use of the winner take all/winner take most format that did more damage) and I could see them wanting to add more back in. As for other requirements, I would be shocked. No party has ever done that as far as I know and I suspect the backlash would be huge. But I will agree with you on that - if somehow those rules suddenly showed up it would be a sign of the party elite having truly banded together to freeze out Trump-like challenges.

From your Cruz comment I assume you mean that the Trumpists would run "populist". Populist is super squishy of course, but if we are going with it meaning "run something that looks like the Trump playbook" then I fully expect to see a handful of people try it. Like I said, I see this is a the beginnings of a potential intra-party fight, not the end of one. If it really does break out into a fight at a higher intensity than the general "factions in the party disagree" that always exists then I don't see it being resolved by 2024. Maybe one side smashes the other quickly, but I doubt it.

As always the donors are going to get involved. To what degree remains to be seen. Adelson's death is under reported imo. This is 100's of millions now in question. And he got his Embassy. What the family does now will be interesting.

As to the fight follow the money. I think Mitch will calm things down at the higher levels. But what happens if a New Tea Party starts primary challenges with more Q wackadoodles and other extremists? Thats what will hurt them.

 

[wigglee]

Are they gonna rebuild with another yahoo con artist? If not, how are gonna get the poor to support a party that just works to help the rich? I guess they'll need the usual fake Bible thumping and dog whistle racism to have a chance.

 

[Valcazar]

Are they gonna rebuild with another yahoo con artist? If not, how are gonna get the poor to support a party that just works to help the rich? I guess they'll need the usual fake Bible thumping and dog whistle racism to have a chance.

Yes, they always have. The whole point is that their policies aren't popular so they need to go with culture war.

As always the donors are going to get involved. To what degree remains to be seen. Adelson's death is under reported imo. This is 100's of millions now in question. And he got his Embassy. What the family does now will be interesting.

As to the fight follow the money. I think Mitch will calm things down at the higher levels. But what happens if a New Tea Party starts primary challenges with more Q wackadoodles and other extremists? Thats what will hurt them.

That's what I am saying, there isn't a clear winner right now. And unlike back when they were the Tea Party, this has actual grassroots now.

 

[danmand]

Yes, they always have. The whole point is that their policies aren't popular so they need to go with culture war.

That is what I have been posting for several years.

The Republican party is the party of the 1%. They need a con to get the disadvantaged people to vote for them. What did Trump do for the poor people? Nothing. He tried to take away health care for them, while giving the richest people in the country huge tax cuts.

The people who voted for Trump would be much better served by a socialist. Ironically, they should vote for AOC.

 

[LickingG2]

From 20,000 feet looking over the Canadian border (and from the pictures from Capital Hill) the Republican Party looks a bunch of dumb Billy-Joe-Bob's, some farmers, maybe sprinkled with few Texas oil barons and religious wing-nuts. The only way they are going to change is the mid-terms continue what happened in Georgia.
I hope they change because their needs be a balance.

 

[Valcazar]

That is what I have been posting for several years.

The Republican party is the party of the 1%. They need a con to get the disadvantaged people to vote for them. What did Trump do for the poor people? Nothing. He tried to take away health care for them, while giving the richest people in the country huge tax cuts.

The people who voted for Trump would be much better served by a socialist. Ironically, they should vote for AOC.

No they wouldn't, because most of the people who vote for Trump are NOT the disadvantaged people and the poor. The proletariat mostly votes Democratic. The petite bourgeoisie votes for Trump. (To stick with Marxist terminology, since we're talking socialism.)

From 20,000 feet looking over the Canadian border (and from the pictures from Capital Hill) the Republican Party looks a bunch of dumb Billy-Joe-Bob's, some farmers, maybe sprinkled with few Texas oil barons and religious wing-nuts. The only way they are going to change is the mid-terms continue what happened in Georgia.
I hope they change because their needs be a balance.

It's more the party of the owner of the car dealerships, CEOs and the like. It isn't necessarily the richest people overall, but they tend to be the richer ones in their given community.
(All of these are trends of course, individual people can be anything.)

 

[LickingG2]

It's more the party of the owner of the car dealerships, CEOs and the like. It isn't necessarily the richest people overall, but they tend to be the richer ones in their given community.
(All of these are trends of course, individual people can be anything.)

Sorry to disagree, aside from Texas the "red "states don't have anywhere near the number wealthy people as the "blue" states. More CEO's in New York and California which voted against Trump by a wide margin. Trump's base is the Mid-West.
If you have facts to back up your statement show your cards otherwise I put it down to the desire to paint the people you dislike with the same brush.

 

[danmand]

No they wouldn't, because most of the people who vote for Trump are NOT the disadvantaged people and the poor. The proletariat mostly votes Democratic. The petite bourgeoisie votes for Trump. (To stick with Marxist terminology, since we're talking socialism.)

Do you have any data on that.

The Trump supporters you see on TV looks disadvantaged. The white people who have lost their jobs.

The terminology in USA is different than in Europe (Marx' terminology). Middle class in USA means workers.

 

[Valcazar]

Sorry to disagree, aside from Texas the "red "states don't have anywhere near the number wealthy people as the "blue" states. More CEO's in New York and California which voted against Trump by a wide margin. Trump's base is the Mid-West.
If you have facts to back up your statement show your cards otherwise I put it down to the desire to paint the people you dislike with the same brush.

Yes. We agree. Midwest CEOs aren't as rich as Blue State ones. That's what I said. They are rich relative to their location.

 

[Valcazar]

Do you have any data on that.

The Trump supporters you see on TV looks disadvantaged. The white people who have lost their jobs.

The terminology in USA is different than in Europe (Marx' terminology). Middle class in USA means workers.

"Middle class" in the US means "everybody because nobody admits they are rich or poor".

If you are defining "middle class" to mean "anyone who works for a paycheck" then that becomes complicated.