Pride and Ultimate Fighting

[Manji]

Anybody watch either of these fights?

I managed to catch Pride (Japanese version of UFC) and it was extremely entertaining.

The best fight was when Quintion "Rampage Jackson" lifted Ricardo Arona (who was trying to go for a triangle choke) over his head and smashed him into the canvas.
Rampage is one strong motherfucker.

I would be interested to know how UFC turned out? Sort of know the results. Heard Tim Sylvia had his arm broken?
Was the tournament entertaining? Kimo and Ken Shamrock? Was that a laugher or was it worth watching?

 

[I*heart*BBBJJs]

I watch almost all forms of MMA/NHB fights.

Wasn't the Genki Sudo v. Royler Gracie on that same Pride card? That knock out was pretty nasty.

You may have seen clips already, but the Kimo v Shamrock was pretty fast. Nasty knees knock out.

 

[Manji]

Finally, some replies!

The Genki Sudo and Gracie fight were on a different night.; that was K-1 Romanex (K 1's new mixed martial arts tournament). I didn't know you could get that here; I watched Romanex when I was in Japan but I didn't know that they started showing it in North America. I*heart*BBBJ, did you catch that on satellite?

The fight I was talking about was Pride, Critical Countdown. I personally prefer Pride over UFC. I think that quality of fighters are better (and more international) than UFC. Pride also has better rules that force fighters to fight and not stall on the ground.
That being said, I still enjoy watching UFC; but if I had to choose it would be Pride.

I think the next Pride will finally decide who the Heavyweight champ is and I am hoping that it will be Fedor. That man is a machine. Got thrown on his head by Randleman and didn't even blink; and then got him in a Kimura.

As for your choice of fighters, Kathleen, I love Sakuraba (although he will have to retire soon if he doesn't want to become a vegetable).

Can't stand Tito, he's a punk. Missed him get his ass whupped by the Iceman. Too bad!!

Newton is a great guy but he's seem to be on a downward spiral. He's losing more fights then he is winning. Don't know if it is a mental issue or a training issue, but he's got to change his game.
His last UFC fight, he got owned by Churato. (As for the Canadian thing, sometimes he pulls a Lennox and says he's from whatever Carribean island he came from even though he trained here in Canada; a little bit ungrateful in that respect.)

Other than that, K-1 Max Grand Prix is on tonight.
Some of the best stand up fighting in the world (at 155 pounds) with the best fighters from all over the world. This Grand Prix shoudl be very entertaing. Compared to their heavyweight counterparts, these
fighers are more conditioned, faster and much more technical.
The shitty thing is, I am not sure if you can get it here by satellite. I have only been able to watch them because I got friends from Japan sending me tapes of the fights.

 

[I*heart*BBBJJs]

Actually, I catch the majority of my fights either via Internet or hookups with my trainer who so happens to be Gary Goodridge's trainer. Gary's a hilarious guy. It's like hanging out with a big kid. A really big kid who can pound my face in and has on a couple of occasions.

I'm going to have to side with Manji here about Tito. It's hard to say which I liked better what happened to Tito: The pummeling from the hands of the Iceman or the literal spanking he got from Couture. The new jackass thing I hate that Tito did was he's ducking Ken Shamrock by hiding behind his weight class.

I don't know where my position stands right now about Crocop. I like his style and how his fights in MMA doesn't look like your generic MMA match, but some days I think I'm on the Mirko bandwagon or is he one of my faves. I know right now I'm definitely on the Bonjasky bandwagon, even if it's only K-1.

 

[Manji]

I"heart"BBBJ, is that Ultimate Gym that Goodridge trains at? I heard the he trains there (though I don't know how frequently).
Can't say I'm a big Goodridge fan. Don't really like his attitude (during his interviews and before and after his fights). He's sort of a journeyman fighter when it comes to mixed martial arts. Wins more by toughness and aggression rather than technique and skill.

He's one of those fighters that will probably never reach the top but if an up and coming fighter beats him then that fighter is ready to compete with the top echelon of fighters. Sort of like the Arturo Gatti of Mixed Martial Arts (sort of).

I remember when he lost to Fedor. Fedor gave him a beating to remember. I think it was a minute and a half of Fedor pounding on Goodridge without Big Daddy even throwing one punch. Actually, I think he did throw one punch but it didn't connect.

Have to agree with Tito and his ability to duck fights. Kept dodging and dodging fights with Couture and the Iceman. If you got the title, you got to be ready to defend it against the best. "No heeing and hawin!"

I have to say I'm sort of in the same position as you on Crocop. Probably one of the best stand up fighters in his weight class; and he has arguably the best kick in both K 1 and Mixed Martial Arts.
Crocop is a pure stand up fighter and the only reason that he survives in Mixed Martial is his ability to counter ground fighters. His knees and his sprawl have thwarted some of the best grapplers.

That being said, if taken to the ground (like Nogueira did) he looks terrible. He looked like he didn't train a day on any grappling/jiu jitsu. That fight was his to lose though; if he had thrown some low leg kicks, Nogueira would not have managed to take him down. Crocop's tree trunk legs would have prevented Minatoru from even being able to walk much less attempt a quick take down.

Instead he loves that high kick to the head and always tries to knock people out. Getting a little too arrogant and he also paid for his over-confindence with his fight against Randelman (who read him like a book).
Hopefully those losses will straighten the Croatian out and have him be a little more disciplined (like keeping his hands up) and not relying on the same signature moves.

I've only seen Bojansky fight once, and that was in the K 1 USA qualifier. He's from Holland, and that country is famous for producing some of the best Kickboxers in the world.
I remember he knocked out someone with a flying Thai roundhouse; something I never seen before. Think it was supposed to be a knee but his opponent tried to duck and he extended his lower leg and clipped the guy in the head. Very entertaining!

Have you caught any K-1 Max fights? Those are amazing; as mentioned earlier, a lower weight class at 155 but the speed, skill and conditioning is way higher.

Only drawback is that there isn't as many knockouts in the K-1 Max as their is in the heavyweight division.

 

[I*heart*BBBJJs]

Gary usually trains at Ultimate every Friday. Most of the time, training is done at his house in Barrie. It's that big. There's usually a hundred people living at his house at once. He has this sweet deal on his contract from K-1 where K-1 pays a professional fighter to come and train Gary. When Gary was supposed to fight Shannon Briggs, who was replaced by Tua, a boxer from Africa came to train Gary. Back when he fought in Pride, he normally trained with Mark Coleman and Maurice Smith whenever they're in town.

Manji, I'll agree with you about Gary's lack of skill. He was lucky that Tua's punches suck when he fought him at the end of April. Whenever he would go up against people with more skill, he gets demolished even though he stays on his feet longer than most people would due to his toughness. It's because of that trait is what made him so popular in Japan. Then again, Japanese people love giant black guys.

I guess you've never seen Bonjasky throw that jumping knee of his. This move is pretty much his trademark and the one move he does that everybody remembers. What was amazing was that he was able to lift Bob Sapp off his feet doing this move during the K-1 Grand Prix. This guy is as much fun to watch as Ernesto Hoost, another fellow Holland fighter.

I'll try to catch some K-1 Max somewhere. My coach probably has his hands on a few. I've heard good things about this division. I'll check it out.

 

[Manji]

Never seen Bojansky throw a jumping knee. Though those Dutch fighters are quite lethal with their knees.

Alijistair Overeem is another Dutchman who throws great knees. Overeem versus Chuck Liddell was quite entertaining. Liddell actually ate a few knees and I think he took one or two square into the solar plexus. Either way, those knees lifted the Iceman off the ground. A testament to Liddell's toughness is that he still won the fight. (That fight was one of the qualifiers for the Light Heavyweight division in Pride; a few Pride fights ago)

Hoost (Mr Perfecto) was great to watch. Very lethal combinations an incredibly tough. A little long in the tooth now.

I heard that Bob Sapp retired. I guess he figured out that he sucked and that the other fighters were figuring out how easy it was to beat him.

The winner of the last K 1 MAX Grand Prix was a Thai Muay Thai fighter. Buakow Pramuk supposedly cleaned up at the Grand Prix. Can't wait to see it.

Disappointed Masato "The Silver Wolf" didn't win but its good to see that a Thai figher won it. Heard he trained hard and with the prize money that he won he can live comfortably for the rest of his life in Thailand.

You can order DVD's of K 1 Max fights of this site (as well as other fights):
http://www.samurai-tv.com/K1/MAX/worldmax4.2004SE.htm.

 

[I*heart*BBBJJs]

Our gym does have some K-1 Max tapes. I caught a few matches. They were the exact ones you were describing, Manji. Nice fights. What I noticed that was crazy was the Thai guy fully commiting to all his push kicks. He didn't even care if he'd catch an elbow on the ball of his feet and those are a bitch.

Sapp retired? I thought he was too busy making music videos, doing interviews, promoting stuff, and avoiding the general Japanese public to even train for fighting.

 

[Manji]

Hey "I*heart"BBBJJs"

In K-1, there are no elbows. I think the reasoning behind it is that in a Grand Prix format, fighters wouldn't last three fights with elbows.
Not only are elbows pretty devestating but they do have a tendency to cut the fighter. A deep cut to the head, the fighter can forget about winning the tournament. Even if they could contain the bleeding, any opponent he faces will be focusing on opening up the cut.

Also K-1 attracts fighters from all the stand up martial arts; karate, kickboxing, kung fu etc...; and only Muay Thai really uses (if not specializes) in using the elbow. That would pretty much cede the tournament to the Muay Thai fighters (thought it already pretty much has with Masato and Buakow winning the last two years).

As for Thai fighters, they always commit to attacking and have little if no fear of getting hit. I've seen some Thai fighters take punishment that would knock out most fighters, but these guys just keep coming and coming. Even injured, they don't show it and will just press on.

The Thais start fighting as young as ten and are used to taking extreme punishment. Also their legs are unbelievably strong and it takes a lot of power to knock them down. I've seen a couple of fights where one Thai would kick a roundhouse and the other fighter would catch his leg. The fighter would try to knock the Thai down with a foot sweep or a kick or a punch but the Thai would not go down.
One Thai fighter jumped all the way around the ring with his leg caught. I think his opponent was trying to dump him over but he would not go down.

By the way, when you are training (and fighting), do you train on the balls of your feet?

As for Sapp retiring, I may be wrong on that. My friend told me that he had retired but I have not heard anything since so it could be false. Sorry bout that.

 

[LexLuger2000]

i dont care if Bruce Lee himself was training at Ultimate Gym...i wont go back...thumbs down

 

[Manji]

Well, I personally don't train at Ultimate; so I cannot comment on the gym.

But there are plenty other places to train in Toronto, so hopefully you found another gym Lex.
If you need any suggestions, just pm me.

 

[I*heart*BBBJJs]

Manji, what I meant with elbows was using it to defend, ie vs. high kicks & push kicks. When a lot of people fight kickers, they usually stick their elbows out wider than usual in their stance.

When I train, I'm on the balls of my feet. I still have a long way to go to develop my shins and toes before I can throw them out full force without fear of breaking something. Training with broken toes sucks.

Lex, Ultimate isn't for everyone. You may probably prefer Tiger or Siam No. 1. However, by saying "I don't care if Bruce Lee himself was training at Ultimate", if you're training because some underground celebrity trains at a gym, you're in it for the wrong reasons.

What's really cool but a long way away is Dec. 31st: Royce Gracie vs. Genki Sudo.

 

[Manji]

Okay, I got ya

Though what do you mean by sticking their elbows out wider. Do you mean that the elbows are then placed further away from the body? So that they are actually pointed outwards from the body?

If that is the case then that situation is actually better for you (the attacker). The more the defender opens up his guard, the easier it is to slip something in like a roundhouse or even a body shot.

You can't really develop your toes like you would your shins.
The only thing you can do is develop you push kick.
Work on the quickness of the push kick and full extension as well as accuracy.
Find the hardest and heaviest bag and work the push kick. Work drills by yourself or with a partner and just kick. Do it in sets of fifty or a hundred (that way you will build muscle memory as well as technique). Do some drills that concentrate on the speed of the kick and do other drills that concentrate on strength.
Try to make that bag move.

As for fighting or sparring. Don't throw out the puch kick just for the sake of throwing it out. Either lead with the hands, jab and then lead push or wait til your opponent throws something out such as cross or a roundhouse and counter a push kick to the body. That way your opponent is preoccupied and will have less of a chance of blocking or evading your push.
(Obviously, there are many other instances you can use the push effectively, but those moves above are some of the most basic tactics for using the push)

I know this easier said then done. Do it in drills (and lots of drills), that way when you have to do it for real it will come automatically.

"Train hard, Fight Easy"

(If you knew all this, sorry about that!)

 

[Manji]

As for events regarding Pride and UFC, there are going to be two huge events in the near (or at least) nearer future.

Both around the 22 of August (on the Sat and Sun), UFC is a day earlier and Pride is on the following day.

UFC: Vitor Belfort versus Randy (The Natural) Couture
I think Randy got hosed when he and Vitor fought last. 15 seconds into the fight and Vitor cuts Randy in the eye with his glove and they call it a win for Belfort. Thats a bad call.
Should called it No Contest and let Couture retain the belt. Then schedule a rematch.

Chuck Liddell versus Vernon White. Should be an exciting fight!

Pride: The Heavyweight Grand Prix.
Who will win? Nogueira? Fedor? That other Russian guy Kharitanov? Oyama?
I'm thinking it will be Fedor! I'm also predicting that Fedor will pound Oyama to a bloody pulp.

Also Fedor's little brother Alex is fighting Cro-cop. Cro-cop has got the skills but those Russians have proven to be tough fighters. Though I think it will be Cro-cop by knock out.

 

[Manji]

Oh one more thing, UFC stripped BJ Penn out of his belt.
For the sole reason that Penn fought in Japan in K-1 Romanex.

Turns out UFC has a contract that stipulates the fighters can only fight in the UFC and are not allowed to fight in other events unless allowed by the UFC.

Sort of bogus.
I think the fighters should be allowed to fight in any event as long as it does not interfere with their obligations to the original promoters.
Penn was planning to fight again in the UFC without any problems so I don't see why the UFC should strip him of his belt.

Penn is suing for his belt but I don't think he is gonna get it back.
Looks like Penn will not fight again in the UFC.

I think fighters fighting in other events is good for the event organizers, cross-promotion always works out well for all involved.

Maybe the UFC thought that if their fighters get their asses kicked it will look bad on them? Maybe!?!

 

[hornydawg]

yeah, I thought the fight between Vitor and Randy should have been a draw. Couture nearly got his eye poked out, within the first 20 secs. or so. I'm sure it wasn't intentional. I can't wait to see what happens this time. Couture is such an amazing well rounded fighter and Vitor is powerful, should be an amazing bout...I can't wait!

I think UFC stripping Penn of his belt is bogus, but, this guy's a pro, IMO, he must have at least suspected that he may run into difficulty fighting for other organizations. His management is to blame .


Manji, I was taking a class the other day (grappling) and trying to mount my oponent whom was in half-guard. Now, when I watch the UFC fights, seems these guys, almost always are at 45 degree angle, or at least seek to be, when trying to get into full mount. I really have difficulty throwing my second leg over their guard, so, likewise, they pull me in close and neither of us can do anything. I'm usually stronger than most of the guys I spar with, but, I cannot seem to get the hang of passing somebodys guard into full mount. What's the trick

oh.. I got ahold of some UFC dvd's.....never really saw Tank fight before, I wasn't really impressed, but, man, does this guy have power. seems to knock out alot of people. Does he still fight, what's his training background, it appears that he's just basically a bar brawler...hahaha

 

[Manji]

When you say 45 degree angle, do you mean the side mount?

Getting from the side mount to the guard is a much easier then passing the guard or half guard and then getting straight into the mount.


Although strength is a factor, technique (in both stand up and ground) is always the most important factor. Strength can only take you so far; work on positioning; that is one of the keys to grappling.

There is no real trick, just keep training and experimenting with what works for you and what does not. Doing drills brings results and don't hesistate to ask questions; that what the instructors are for.

 

[hornydawg]

well, not, so much a side mount as they seem to either prefer leaving one of their legs in between the other guys guard.
Yeah, technique seems to be everything. I do the body- building thing, so, I'm not all that strong...guess I'll be concentrating on lifting heavy from now on and since I'm such a newbie at the fighting thing, I got lots to learn! I'm totally fed up with body buliding. I'm already slated to compete next summer at the Ontario Nationals, but, I don't see myself going any further than that. Honestly, I can't find training like a madman twice per day, 6 days per week, just to flex on stage with other guys in g-strings! that's not what I call competitive and, seriously, I can no longer respect a sport where my drug bill exceeds my bloody rent!

stupid question....are these fighters jacked? I'm sure they are in the off season. Look at Randleman...old pics a few years ago, don't even look like him

 

[hornydawg]

oh...BTW...ever check out this site www.sherdog.com

they have a good forum , some guys are assholes, but, generally pretty nice. My member name is RAINY in their forum, check it out...

later

 

[Manji]

Well, in the UFC, being in that position is perfect for the ground and pound; especially if you got your opponent propped up against the cage. You're in a good poisition to pummel the guy with your hands or forearms and in a good position to move to a more favourable position for a submission. All the while your opponent is kept in check because he doesn't want you to move forward and it will be hard for him to buck or shrimp (especially when he's getting pounded).
(Grappling isn't really my strong point; I'm just happy if I can prevent them from submitting me and then getting back on my feet)

Bodybuilding! Can't say I'm famliar with the sport!?! hobby!?! What is it exactly?
Is steroids a huge factor in it?
I knew a few people who worked at the Musclemag stores and they said that it is a big factor. But they just worked there and did not bodybuild. Just wondering what an insider's perspective is on the sport!?!

Yeah, some fighters are jacked.
Randleman is juicin it up. Went on a steroid rage in a weigh-in a couple of Prides ago.
He trains with all those American wrestlers like Randleman and Kerr.
Should call them the All-American Juice team.
When Randleman grapples and they show his leg, look at his right leg (or his left, one of them) it looks fucked. Its a like million veins trying to pop out of his leg.

Josh (The Babyface Assassin) got caught with roids in his system and got suspended from the UFC for a year.
Tim Sylvia lost his Heavyweight belt because of steroid usage, but no suspension. I think he said sorry and the UFC forgave him.

I think the foreign fighters don't use them as much. I think the American athletic system make steroid use a way of life unlike other nations. That's probably why the American wrestlers love the stuff.