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sibannac

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Carrie Moon said:
I'm still maintaining that bipolar must always have mania. You agreed that you oversimplified hypomania with increased energy. Again I reiterate read the section of hypomania you copied. You would have everyone believing that a reprise from depression indicates bipolar 2. It does not. * Reckless behaviors
* Risk-taking behaviors are important indicators to hypomania

3 years of depression is serious of course but no-where is that a suggestion that bipolar 2 is indicated. You've still not proven me wrong on that point.

with reference to St. John's wort.. another issue entirely. If we were talking about a case with someone who has bipolar 2.. it's an issue. We are not for the sake of this argument.
You can maintain what you want - you are still wrong - at the risk of sounding like a broken record please review the symptoms.

Now as for looking at Bi-polar that came up only with your reckless recommendation about St John's wort which could mask that disorder. The fact that the OP has struggled with depression for more than three years in itself means that Bipolar should be looked at because medication for clinical depression would have provided positive result by now long before three years. Never have I suggested that the OP has bipolar disorder only that by suggesting a herbal and unsupervised remedy is ill advised for a variety of reasons.

I still maintain Carrie you are arguing for arguing sake. Your posts and train of thought has been inconsistent while mine has been consistent. Go on about "increased energy" if you must but as I said in an earlier post it is the one symptom that rings alarm bells for Doctors or at least should.

You are not right in comparing the condition of mania to hypomania and if you saw both conditions side by side you would know the difference.
 

sibannac

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genintoronto said:
Going back to the topic at hand, ie, providing the OP with some encouragement and advices:

You have received a lot of good advices here, but it just occured to me that all those advices and suggestions may seem overwhelming to you and end up being more counter-productive than anything.

So with that in mind, here's one of the best advice I got from my therapist at the time:

Start with small steps, small, doable objectives. For instance, depending at where you're at right now, it might mean giving yourself only one objective for the day: getting out of bed and fixing yourself one healthy meal. Tomorrow's objective: calling to make an appointment to see a doctor. Next day: taking a 15 minutes walk outside.

The idea is to give yourself small and reasonable objectives for your situation. And cut yourself some slack if one day you just can't do anything. Like any other illness, you'll have better days and bad days.
Gen this is extremely good advice for coping with depression and too often people like myself forget about the little battles that need to be fought to overcome this illness.

I still think the OP should review the medical advice he is getting from his/her current Doctor since it clearly isn't working and seek a second opinion. If he/she is seeing a GP, which I suspect is the case, they should ask for a referral to a psychiatrist.

There is absolutely no reason for the OP to suffer here.
 

Insidious Von

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Here's a tip from someone who's dealt with depression/panic attacks since his early teens:

You'll never get better unless you take responsibility for your actions and decisions. If you chose to live with misery you can procrastinate your life away; at the end of it all you'll have only yourself to blame. Or you can use your handicap as your personnal powertrain and make your life better. Remember life isn't just about happiness, pleasure and comfort; it's also about duty, hard work and meeting obligations.

Best of luck to you and make yourself a wonderfull life...only you can.
 

mbaileyajc

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I would like to thank everyone that has replied to my post and those that will reply to it. There are many that have contributed to this thread and many that have PM'ed me as well. There is a lot of material to absorb but I would like to thank everyone for their concern and for their kind words and advice.
 

mbaileyajc

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One of the major problems Ive had is that Ive lost interest in life. Simple things like music , vacations, sunny day's none of these things make me happy. its like Ive just lost interest in everything. Its as if my life was in color before and now its in black and white if that makes any sense.
 

jwmorrice

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In the laboratory.
mbaileyajc said:
One of the major problems Ive had is that Ive lost interest in life. Simple things like music , vacations, sunny day's none of these things make me happy. its like Ive just lost interest in everything. Its as if my life was in color before and now its in black and white if that makes any sense.
When I read what you've written, I wonder if sometimes you experience your world as being flat, almost like it's two dimensions instead of three? Looking at some of your other posts, I'm curious if you're always so invariantly polite? Can you assert yourself in your marriage and other relationships? What's your fantasy life like?

Now, I'm not looking for answers to these questions. I'm just asking them to suggest to you that there's a lot that could be explored between you and competent psychotherapist. Meds can be a godsend but perhaps you're dealing with a personality disorder in addition to an affective one. I wouldn't waste time here. Get thee back to your primary medical provider and see what else might be done.

Again, best of luck to you in your life journey.

jwm
 
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Lisa of Toronto said:
you need to smoke a spliff.....and get laid...everyting gonna be in colour again :D
Way to downplay a person's pain. Man you just continually display your complete and utter stupidity and lack of compassion.
 

coolcat

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Top Northerner, I totally agree with your opinion of the thread. As for Insidiuos Von, you may have been able to beat your depression(good for you) but I do not totally agree with your advice. I personally did not chose to procrastinate my life away. When I was in my early 30's I had a house which was over half paid for. I was successfully self-employed in a business and had 5 employees. I was involved in a car accident which was not my fault. If I had not been wearing my seat belt I literally would have flown out the windshield. My face literally hit the steering wheel and bent it. The complex I got after people staring at my face afterwards really gave me a feeling of inferiority.To date, I have undergone 5 surgeries due to this and have 2 more pending. The fact that these surgeries are on hold right now is putting my life and abilities on hold as well. I am in pain most every day and some days I do just wish I could end the pain. The insurance company, the lawyers were f@#$$n A&^holes. I lost my house, I lost my business, I lost my RRSP savings, and I lost myself. Every time I have tried to open a door it got slammed in my face. A person can only take so much of that. But yet, life must go on. I try to make the best of every day. There is a lot of good advice on this thread but to those who mock or make fun of us, try spending some time living like we do. It is flippin tough.
 

sibannac

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mbaileyajc said:
One of the major problems Ive had is that Ive lost interest in life. Simple things like music , vacations, sunny day's none of these things make me happy. its like Ive just lost interest in everything. Its as if my life was in color before and now its in black and white if that makes any sense.
If this is how you are feeling now, Camgirl is very right. It's time to get to an ER for an assessment.
 

sibannac

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Top Northerner said:
Way to downplay a person's pain. Man you just continually display your complete and utter stupidity and lack of compassion.

What else to expect from Lisa here. Just review her posts she can't help herself.:rolleyes:
 

Carrie Moon

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sibannac.. I've left this thread alone for a couple of days because frankly the whole hostility you've expressed is upsetting. Your level of hostility is completely unnecessary.

I have seen hypomania and mania side by side. They are not 2 completely separate disorders. Hypomania is a lesser level of psychosis.. the same neurochemicals are at work in smaller levels. If what you were saying is true.. bipolar 1 would not manifest hypomania.. only mania.

It's quite common for people suffering from depression to go several years without result from medication. This in no way that I've heard of indicates bipolar 2.

You've already said that increased energy is an oversimplification yet you just said again.. that that is an indicator of possibility of hypomania.. I don't see how you can support this.

Also St. Johns wort is not indicated for serious depression. As I originally stated it's for mild to moderate and while it may not be helpful to the OP.. it might for others who suffer depression. I myself found it extremely useful several years ago when I had boughts of depression and several prescription meds made me worse.


IF you are concerned that St. Johns wort would put someone into a hypomanic state, why then wouldn't other pharmaceutical SSRI's that are way more potent also do this?

IF you are stating the opposite point of view now that St.John's wort would instead mask symptoms I am failing to see how that would do so? Please elaborate. What would it mask? the depression or the non-existent hypomania you claim might be present?

I am not arguing for the sake of arguing. This is both a very vitally important disease being manifested in my life as I've already stated and an emotionally affective one. Why you need to be so condescending? You've suggested rather inappropriately that I'm silly (suggesting a well known helpful herb as one of many suggestions by the way which you've blown way out of proportion).. and twice now said I'm like a dog with a bone.. (I do understand the saying and I'm not taking offense to you calling me a dog by the way). This is a very personal issue in my life not some frivolous argument I enjoy.

It is just completely unnecessary and also dis-compassionate of you to mock me when I have been dealing lovingly and painfully with this disorder in a case where a dear loved one has been near suicide on occasion, straight-jacketed and in jail when arguing with a health care professional in the hospital (in other words put there by the supposed psychiatric profession who is supposed to help)

Surely you know as well how damaging that is on the family members involved. I have stood by this particular individual for over 30 years during this struggle and watched as the psychiatric profession mishandled, mistreated and in some cases abused this individual. They are often ill-equipped to handle these cases and I would frankly love to see more education in this area. Being hostile doesn't help anyone.

The psychiatrists have seen this individual for literally minutes in some cases.. rarely more than once/month until this new one.. who actually seems to give a rats ass.

Now I think this can be a helpful and educational thread to people who know nothing about bipolar disorder since it's gone this way and I had no intention of hijacking the thread mbaileyajc but maybe it will help some other people.. anything's possible even on terb.

In my case, it took me about 20 of the 30 years to realize that this individual could go from hypomania to mania in mere seconds with the assistance of marijuana.. I'm not certain of course if all cases do this.. but marijuana in the case of this individual has the opposite effect of a 'normal' person smoking it in that it causes full blown psychosis.

The individual goes from the complete list of symptoms given earlier for hypomania which can be somewhat entertaining to the viewers to scary. As I've said above.. I have witnessed both very literally side-by-side.
 
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Sorry, I've read only the first page and I decided to post a reply to you...so I haven't read the rest of the pages.

You have a wife (as far as I can remember your post), you like Asian SC girls, you say things make you depressed and feel like there is never a "happy ending" on whatever you do. I take it, it's not money problems. Nobody, and God forbid, in your life has just passed away right?

I am not a psychiatrist, nor am I am trying to pretend to be one. But please take this advice....remove all the negativity in your head day by day starting now.

Before you go to sleep, Thank whomever you think is watching you for your blessings (whether you believe in God or Gardian angels or someone you love that has passed away -trust me they are watching you), thank them for everything you have right now in your life that is making you the tinyiest bit happy....your wife, your shelter, your job, your kids, your health, your wealth, ample food? Is everyone healthy? that is a blessing too. Think about the shit happening in this world and your not part of that, your lucky so don't forget that. People in third world countries are way worse shape than you so don't be negative. If you feel down, take your knowledge and experience and make some time to do what is right. Volunteer, help people become better people.

and when you wake up remember it's a new day and you have a calling to help others. If you are gloomy and sad, how can you help? Whatever that may bother you put it aside for next time because right now at this very moment YOU......ARE.......TOO.....BUSY....FOR......THIS.....SHiT!


P.S. When you actually see a face that gives you a very sincere "Thank you" It will change your whole life perspective, I promise you that.
 

sibannac

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Carrie Moon said:
sibannac.. I'
The individual goes from the complete list of symptoms given earlier for hypomania which can be somewhat entertaining to the viewers to scary. As I've said above.. I have witnessed both very literally side-by-side.

Well I'm going to let you have the last word. However anyone that can refer to the symptoms of Bipolar as somewhat entertaining simply will never understand this illness fully. I'm sorry that you've dealt with this for as long as you say but I have to wonder if all those arguments with psychiatrists have been unproductive on your part and based on a personal bias and not fact.

Oh BTW a treated depressive (almost all) should always start feeling better within weeks of treatment. Of course a depressive can be treated for years, but that is maintenance only.The OP mentioned that he is no better off than he was three years AGO so what ever treatment he's getting isn't working and as such needs additional help.
 
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brazilianpussy

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You need to see a specialist

Seeing your family doctor is not always enough. You need to see a psychiatrist. Insist that your family doctor refers you to one. It might only take one or two visits to figure out what's wrong with you. I find it strange that you did not respond to medication. It is possible that you were on the wrong medication, did not take it properly, did not take a strong enough dose, or did not take it long enough.
Secondly, therapy is a good option to do in addition to the medication. Studies have shown that medication and therapy in conjunction is the best option. If you are afraid of jumping into therapy, I recommend buying the book "Mind over Mood" by Greenberger / Padesky -- this is recommended by psychiatrists. I have personally used it and it's very useful.

To give you some hope, I'm in my early 30s, had problems with depression all my life including an intense period that lasted nearly a year. Finally, someone made me get help and I've been on a modern medication and it has worked. I'm a different person now and I never feel excess anxiety or sadness. Hang in there -- you'd be surprised how many people are in the same boat as you. Look for help and you will find it.

mbaileyajc said:
Ok, I'll try to be brief with this. Ive been suffering from clinical depression for 3 years. Ive gone for help, Ive tried medications, Ive seeked out help but I am probably worse off today than I was when this all started. I'm starting to feel like there is no scenario in which I can get out of this situation that doesnt involve a bad ending. I've pretty much lost any hope and fear that I will never be able to get out of this situation. Any advice would be appreciated.
 

Carrie Moon

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sibannac

I never said that I find it entertaining...Sorry if that was misleading. I think you are quick to judge rather than ask..btw. (Note: with your issue with St. Johns wort I asked about your history with it but you never replied)

People as I've said who have no experience with it sometimes find it entertaining.. the hypomanic individual is often very charismatic and not only fools non-trained people but supposedly trained individuals.

You're making incorrect assumptions about me and what I've gone through..same as you make incorrect assumptions about the OP. As I've maintained from the get-go and (not flip-flopped like you) 3 years of depression.. whether or not it is not responding to antidepressants in no way indicates bipolar disorder. Papasmerf also said this on the first page and it's simply incorrect. (Here's where I should say you are both 'dead wrong')

Bipolar disorder needs mania to be diagnosed as bipolar.. hence the term bipolar. Bipolar 2 still needs hypomania and as much as you wish to say increased energy is simply enough (which you recanted) it is not. You did clarify yourself which you could have easily done without the immature ''You're dead wrong'' several times and the other immature comments.

Hypo means lesser, means lower..means below - same thing! Hypomania is part and parcel of bipolar disorder and often presents before full blown mania.. which is why they term it full-blown mania. It is not a separate condition.. it is a greater more serious condition and exacerbated form of hypomania.

In order to properly diagnose hypomania..or mania you need to observe it or count on the patient to disclose this in his/her own history (or loved one being interviewed about the patient). There is no blood test or other medical test at this point in time to diagnose it so it's complicated and still highly misunderstood by the supposed experts. I've witnessed first hand psychiatrists in the direct presence of both hypomania and the more obvious mania and missing it, minimizing it or outrightly mistreating her because of it.

Let me elaborate on the incompetence I've dealt with and thankfully none of it with the police who've always been extremely helpful. I've been trying to be discrete but for the sake of this discussion it is my sister who I adore but who has caused me many many years of distress...most on here don't know her anyway.. and the ones who do.. also know my battle.

1) I've sent her by police car to the Toronto general hospital during a manic episode (not a new endeavour but thankfully I think the worst is over now finally). Thinking the few days of hell was overwith now.. the chief psychiatrist on staff at the time telephoned me to ask me to come down to help her determine if she should be admitted..and I told her my parents were on the way. She said. "It's kind of like you have a grandmother here who doesn't speak English and has had a heart attack so I would need you to translate for me'. I asked her ''Are you trying to guilt-trip me now''? She claimed no.. and of course her guilt trip worked anyway so I met my parents down there.

I get there and we are all being interviewed by this supposedly knowledgeable trained professional. Emergency was overwhelmed so we are in a non-normal interview room that had carts with needles, vials etc and had no chairs or bed so we were all standing. During the interview process the ''Professional'' suggested we move to another room.. everyone was obviously distracted and uncomfortable with my sister's antics and her playing near the vials/needles etc.

So..we moved.. then all of a sudden my common sense kicked in and I asked this woman "why did you feel the need to move us?" " Wasn't it because you were concerned with my sister's erratic behaviour'"?? She agreed and admitted her. I breathed a sigh of relief that I was done..and left the hospital while my sister was being taken care of. She had a history of being in that very hospital once for over a 2month stay so it wasn't like they weren't aware of her either!

2) In Ottawa my sister was in a group for people suffering depression/anxiety etc. It was some kind of life skills program to help them get a job/on with life etc. The psychiatrist in question treated her like 'teacher's pet' and with her hypomanic charm and wiles had him wrapped around her little finger. Meanwhile another girl in the group was so depressed by his criticism of her in ''class'' that she felt a desire to kill herself over a weekend. When told this in group the following session.. he laughed at her and said "over me???" My sister and this other girl in the class later told me alot of inappropriate stories about this guy. He frankly shouldn't have a license to practice but par for the course I've found over the years. Unfortunately more are incompetent than are competent.

Anyway.. we had our first sibling counselling session with him on a Monday when just prior to that on the friday before my sister had used pot and gone manic over the weekend where I had forced her out of the home to stay in a shelter and involved the police. She had ''come down'' with meds by the time we met with the doc.. but I was still a bit shell-shocked. She was appropriately contrite and it fed right into the role-play because unbeknownst to me she had him believing I was abusing her by threatening her with eviction whenever she did something I didn't like. She wasn't bipolar according to him.. she only had ''bipolar reactive like tendencies because I wasn't providing her with safety..'"' consistently holding eviction over her head.

Once I realized what was going on.. I told him. Oh really? Have you actually read her previous medical history of all her hospital admissions for this bipolar disorder you know believe doesn't actually exist? Also.. Did she tell you she smoked up on Friday and was manic all weekend? He was obviously clued out by the expression on his face. I told him yes I evict her when she does that as it's unbearable to live with that behaviour. He agreed.. but for the few months prior to this he totally believed she was charming and I think he had a crush on her. What a dufus! I was stunned once again to see what kind of care she was receiving at a supposedly well renowned mental health institution.

3) on another occasion after a verbal assault to someone in the place she was living she was admitted to the hospital. Being beligerant as manic individuals are apt to do.. she was given the ultimatum to 'behave' or go to jail.. of course part of the disorder makes them insolent soooo .. she mouthed back and said "jail" AND they sent her there!!!! This is akin to threatening a child in the back seat of a car with stopping and leaving them at the side of the road and then following through with it!

When she left jail after 3 days she was ordered to get out of town (with no financial assistance) get a psychiatrist (which by the way they did not provide for her), see a probation officer (which of course they did provide), stay away from the former roomate but not get her another place to live. She's on disability but had lost all her id in the meantime. At this point in time in her life I had stopped stepping in to take care of everything... long journey but one I had to take to keep sane myself.

4) this older example (probably 20 years ago) isn't with a psychiatrist (I think it was a counsellor of some kind but frankly don't recall whether she was a social worker or a psychiatrist). She was living in a group home in the Annex in Toronto and I forget the circumstances but I was overwhelmed with dealing with her in a situation and the counsellor recommended over the phone to me that since I was feeling helpless, that when I felt that way to call her and let her handle it.. so I could feel some sense of having accomplished a helpful move forward. I did just that during the next event and was relieved to have someone else take over the burden of dealing with her. The woman phones me a mere 2 hrs later in tears to me and I had to comfort her!

Just some of the examples of what I've experienced.. not once in the 30 years we've been dealing with this in our family by the way has any form of therapy been arranged for her until that dumb group therapy doc a few years back and he obviously had none of her prior medical history or common sense. No drug addiction counselling.. no counselling period. Again.. thank god she now has someone who seems to be helpful in this regard and we're all hopeful.

There is a major issue with the mentally ill falling through the cracks. Major.

Many people may remember when Brittany Spears started to go awry. She started speaking in an English accent and at one point shaved her head. At this point I knew right away she was bipolar. How? 30 years ago when my sister started smoking pot.. she exhibited the exact same behaviour. Until recently I thought she got manic from several different ways.. but now I realize probably 90% if not 100% of the time pot was the initiating factor. Of course she was very very secretive about it and the manic high she gets is like a crack addiction.

Here's my thoughts on the matter in the last few years. Had my sister never smoked up in high school would she even have experienced hypomania and eventually mania? Brittany - a very public example of this (and by the way not diagnosed for several months when this whole thing started) may not have either had she not started smoking pot. Now of course I have no proof to back this up..

BUT here's my point. You discover a lot more about an illness by living with one and being personally invested in it that you do by simply studying it. Many psychiatrists haven't got enough experience with it yet treat it. I can't imagine all the mal-practice suits they'd have on their hands if the psychiatric profession were better understood and all it's frailties.
 

sibannac

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Carrie there are several things I'm very surprised at in your post, so I'll list them with my thoughts:

[2) In Ottawa my sister was in a group for people suffering depression/anxiety etc. It was some kind of life skills program to help them get a job/on with life etc. The psychiatrist in question treated her like 'teacher's pet' and with her hypomanic charm and wiles had him wrapped around her little finger. Meanwhile another girl in the group was so depressed by his criticism of her in ''class'' that she felt a desire to kill herself over a weekend. When told this in group the following session.. he laughed at her and said "over me???" My sister and this other girl in the class later told me alot of inappropriate stories about this guy. He frankly shouldn't have a license to practice but par for the course I've found over the years. Unfortunately more are incompetent than are competent.
This sounds like day hospital which is generally run by psychiatric nurses under the supervision of Doctors. At no point should these classes provide for an unsafe environment. If someone presents the claim of directly harming themselves they are immediately pulled out of such classes.

Judging by your sister's propensity to lie, as evidence about the "eviction", which is not unusual for bipolar subjects, I have to wonder how true this is. I know you believe it because of the verification but believe me it is not hard to convince someone who is this ill that something happened that in fact didn't. It should have been reported because if a pattern emerges of such complaints it is the only way a Hospital can decide that something may in fact be wrong.

I think you are reading far too much into this Dr. blaming you for her behavior. I think he was just trying to find the stress that sent her into the manic phase. Certainly the belief, real or imagined, can cause enough stress to trigger an episode. Most likely the DR was testing to see if in fact it was real or imagined. From your testimony I'm sure the eviction was imagined - this is very important information for treatment purposes.

3) on another occasion after a verbal assault to someone in the place she was living she was admitted to the hospital. Being beligerant as manic individuals are apt to do.. she was given the ultimatum to 'behave' or go to jail.. of course part of the disorder makes them insolent soooo .. she mouthed back and said "jail" AND they sent her there!!!! This is akin to threatening a child in the back seat of a car with stopping and leaving them at the side of the road and then following through with it!

When she left jail after 3 days she was ordered to get out of town (with no financial assistance) get a psychiatrist (which by the way they did not provide for her), see a probation officer (which of course they did provide), stay away from the former roomate but not get her another place to live. She's on disability but had lost all her id in the meantime. At this point in time in her life I had stopped stepping in to take care of everything... long journey but one I had to take to keep sane myself.
Unfortunately this happens way too often. In this Country you can't make a person seek treatment unless of course it is an extreme case and that's very hard to determine and involves the courts. A Police Officer can invoke the 72 hour observation but rarely do. LEOs are getting better educated but have a ways to go.

In addition you did the right thing not to step in. Your sister clearly sounds like she is refusing treatment. While that is her right, provided that she is no immediate threat to herself or the public, you have the right to get on with your life. This illness can be very hard on family members especially if the patient refuses treatment.

How? 30 years ago when my sister started smoking pot.. she exhibited the exact same behavior. Until recently I thought she got manic from several different ways.. but now I realize probably 90% if not 100% of the time pot was the initiating factor. Of course she was very very secretive about it and the manic high she gets is like a crack addiction.

Here's my thoughts on the matter in the last few years. Had my sister never smoked up in high school would she even have experienced hypomania and eventually mania? Brittany - a very public example of this (and by the way not diagnosed for several months when this whole thing started) may not have either had she not started smoking pot. Now of course I have no proof to back this up..
The answer to this is that your sister would have experienced mania, with or without pot and most likely was at the beginning stages of mania when she took up smoking pot. Pot, crack, alcohol, gambling, sexual behavior are all things that Bipolar people use to excess to self medicate. Once properly medicated they generally stop. You may have associated this behavior of hers, smoking pot, as the trigger but it is likely that this is the first you noticed the symptoms. Your sister most likely was well on her way in an episode before she started to self medicate. You have to remember at the beginning stages most people with Bipolar who start to slip into mania actually enjoy that stage and appear happy and very functional. As mania advances then the hell begins as does the destructive phase. You are most likely observing the middle or end stages when she smokes. The smoking only seems to enhance the mania but really all the smoking is doing is further impairing her judgment beyond what the mania has already done.

Bipolar is thought to be a genetic problem since it is evidenced that it flows through the family tree. However you can have identical twins, one who has Bipolar and one who is not, so it is thought that in combination with the genetic error - that a stressful event occurred to trigger the illness. Stress is generally at the root of an event.

I would like to add that I once read a paper that a Toronto Psychiatrist wrote suggesting that the genetic defect that cause bipolar disorder is a evolutionary change in humans not complete. The point was that most Bipolar patients have higher IQs, are more creative and generally faster thinkers then general public. I found that kind of interesting when you consider that both Issac Newton and Winston Churchill were thought to be Bipolar. If the violent mood swings and psychosis could be eliminated without slowing the brain down think of the advantages a Bipolar person would have in an ever increasing stimulating world.
 

Carrie Moon

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re: the psychiatrist in the group session. No it was run directly by him.. no nurses. You are giving him way too much credit. I've later found out how reknowned he is by the other docs to be such an idiot. You are an allopathic supporter obviously... and biased. I am obviously biased too.. but this is based on my experience. If he indeed was trying to do what you claim.. he would have pulled me aside afterward to indicate this.. that he knew full well she was bipolar and was testing her side of the story.

After hearing the other girl's story and the 2 of them recounting his behaviour with the rest of the group believe me I wanted to do something about this guy.. but I'm sure you know full well what a wasted battle that is. In one case many years ago I complained to the College of Physicians and surgeons about a doc. You know what they told me to do? Write the doctor a letter.. let him respond and then go from there. They weren't even willing to let me make a report. That was probably 15 years ago.. this group incident probably 4 or 5.

In all the cases I mentioned (keeping in mind this is over several years and are only a snippet of what's happened) they are well documented.. not just tales from my sister. For the sake of discretion I cannot name names obviously.

I can see where you are coming from.. but re: the pot smoking. I have had enough experience watching this over almost 30 years that I've witnessed her going from depressed to manic in mere seconds complete with the dilation of the pupils when she smoked up in front of me and 3 other witnesses. That's when I finally clued in to it. I thought that pot was only one of the accelerants to her mania. Now I realized it was the only one or at least 90% and since realizing it I had tried to get her to go to NA meetings (again I'm not doing that codependant crap anymore). I know the psychiatric profession is accepting of dual diagnosis... bipolar/drug addict.. but I wonder if anyone is doing a chicken vs egg research on this.

Obviously there is a genetic component. Many studies have been done on that.. but what about a trigger? In both my sister and Brittany Spears I am 95% certain that it is..the similarities are too much the same.

Keeping in mind that her trying to hide the fact that she smoked up was part of the issue and you're right that the manic individual enjoys the high.. the last thing like any drug user wants is to be found out. If a crack/heroin addict could just get the same high for many many days with just smoking a few puffs off of a joint.. we'd all be in big trouble. This is what it's like. Crack apparently doesn't have the same effect on her as it does on crack users. Her brain biochemistry is the opposite I guess.

Yes. I have noticed that too with the bipolar people I've met and know in my life.. they are very intelligent and creative people. If she had never started smoking drugs in high school I think she would have accomplished alot! Here's hoping she's on the right path now. She is doing extremely well considering I never expected her to live this long. The recklessness of the highs is soooo dangerous and it's like a demon takes over their personalities so you're not even dealing with the same person.

btw sibannac.. I really appreciate your change in tone. Thanks.
 

sibannac

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Carrie Moon said:
I can see where you are coming from.. but re: the pot smoking. I have had enough experience watching this over almost 30 years that I've witnessed her going from depressed to manic in mere seconds complete with the dilation of the pupils when she smoked up in front of me and 3 other witnesses. That's when I finally clued in to it. I thought that pot was only one of the accelerants to her mania. Now I realized it was the only one or at least 90% and since realizing it I had tried to get her to go to NA meetings (again I'm not doing that codependant crap anymore). I know the psychiatric profession is accepting of dual diagnosis... bipolar/drug addict.. but I wonder if anyone is doing a chicken vs egg research on this.

Since you are insisting that Pot Smoking pushes your sister into mania, something I've never witnessed or heard of, I thought I would look it up.

I still maintain that "POT" is not a cause for Bipolar but I did find out some interesting issues around BP1 & BP2 and POT. It would appear that medical marijuana is effective for depression symptoms and it's mellowing effect alleviates mania however prolonged use has diminished effects to the point that long term use of medical marijuana will eventually lead to putting the Bipolar patient directly into psychosis.

From what you describe this is exactly where your sister is today.

Now the studies that I saw are not complete, in that they have not been approved by Health Canada or it's sister body in the States however there has been a warning issued about medical marijuana and depression and especially regarding Bipolar disorder.

Hope this helps.
 
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