Open Discussion: Increasing Average Rates Getting Too High?

[Callmerey]

I mean look at how everything has gone up. Basic gas and food and housing. I agree this is the sole income for a lot of girls in the city or outside so charging a little higher is not a harsh behaviour.
I mean look at it this way- if we guys complain about how expensive it is hobbying around or how high a girl is charging, the same way the provider is perplexed about the same. She is also complaining about the same high rate of living standards.
At this point, either find a gem who does it in budget or just hobby around once in a while.

 

[Nakid1]

Before COVID my rates were some of the highest. After COVID they are now considered lower and I haven’t changed them.

Before COVID it was harder to get away from the office and therefore it needed to be worth my time. Now after COVID, I’m semi retired, working from home with minimal expenses and therefore I kept the rates the same.

We all do what works for us. If a lady is bitching because another escorts rates are too low, then that is her problem. If you feel the escort at the lower rate is making more then you and you need more, lower your fucking rate. It is not rocket science. You have a quota, you break it down by client and then average out the rate. It is stupid to blame someone else for your lacking.

However, this bullshit complaint about rates is stupid as well. EVERYTHING has gone up. Housing, gas, utilities, food, insurance, clothing, all merchandise, etc. Minimum wage has gone up, government funded supports like OW/ODSP/OAS/GIS has gone up, so can someone please explain why escort rates should not go up as well.

I haven’t even gotten into escort expenses. Hotels, phones, ads, photography, websites, hair, make up. I’ll be lucky if I can get a bra for under $100. And that is not that fancy shit either. Just a nice black supportive bra. Granted my tits are huge and that is part of the problem, but this is 2024. We all have to deal.

These are the rates. Can’t afford them, find another sandbox to play in or spend the time to save. This is a luxury, not a necessity, no matter how much you guys wanna think that it is necessary to bust a nut.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but this is the reality and it is annoying AF to continue to read men whining about rates over and over.

You guys had it good in Durham for a long time. You lost basically every agency because of bitching and lowballing etc that it made it impossible for an agency to make money and keep the rates lower. Now you are left with indies and soon you might be out of those as well. The good ones anyways. Look around at some other sections of the board or ask your fellow hobbyist in Peterborough how dire the scene is. It can get worse. Just sayin’.

I will say, having said all that - I wouldn’t call $200/hh an average price. That is a more higher end price. Durham still has girls charging $100/hh. I would say average Durham price is $160ish.

I think we are confusing what is “average”. Although basic escort economics 101, hh price should be able to cover the full cost or at least 80% of the cost of the hotel. An escort should only need two hh calls to make her hotel, food, gas, ads, phone and site per shift. Then the rest of the calls should be profit which pays for all the escorts personal shit like her rent/food, etc. However, also from that profit you can minus other expenses like hair, nails, lingerie, etc. but for regular shift work, it is what I listed. This is breaking down expenses per client session of course. Lots of numbers to break down but that is standard from our end. Look at the average hotel cost for Durham. You will see why some rates are what they are. The bloody Super 8 and Motel 6 are 130/140 per night minimum. Without a “Priceline” booking. And those are shit holes. Anything worth using is 160-200 per night and that is with a Priceline booking. Just trying to put it in perspective

This explanation is the most concise and realistic answer so far to this thread! No surprise though given the person posting. There are valid points and concerns from the start and I actually like Rebbel’s start of the pole! I have an opinion myself but like to hear others thoughts just to confirm my opinion is not off based or distorted.

end of the day… price is an ask? Reality of real.value, settles the number over time. Just like the real estate industry. It has peaks, but when no one can get into the market prices need to come back in line. !
poor example using market I can’t believe we haven’t had more of correction as of yet???

 

[RebelinBed]

Sorry but no. Escorts are not making that much. You didn’t account for any expenses. You assume 5 days at 52 weeks a year. Which is also not correct. You left no times for periods, sick days, burnout days, etc.

I like you man, but your numbers are off.

You're right, I didn't account for that. Mainly because, as you rightly pointed out the are way too many variables to consider in terms of expenses that vary so wildly that it's almost near impossible to calculate an average. So I went with gross pay to simply illustrate what I was trying to convey.

On the not including vacations, sick days, personal days etc, that's fair and is my bad on that.

I suppose what I should have said is "200/HH is becoming the average rate" or that I'm seeing more and more ladies charging that for either services that don't and shouldn't command that price (cbj and fs only) or their quality of service shouldn't command that price. I guess the reason I brought it up is because I personally am seeing that more and more normally than anything under 200/HH. I didn't exactly bring it up to "complain" as much as I wanted this to be an open discussion of thoughts and opinions on what my observations are.

As for this talk of agencies having been in Durham before and how clients here drive people away, I can't speak much in that because that was slightly before my time. I only caught the tail end of Class & Elegance before they stopped too. On the note of clients here being lowballers who drive people away, I can confirm that is 100% true. However, I would say that painting us all with that broad stroke isn't fair. Many of us, myself included, have no issue paying whatever is being asked for if the services and quality of that service match the price tag.

As I said, for me, it's more about the consistency in seeing unknowns, unreviewed ladies with this price or minimal or bad service with this price tag. As has already been said, providers talk and scout competition. You all know roughly how much each other are charging. The more frequently 200/hh is the answer, the closet it gets to becoming the average especially with new girls coming into the industry every day trying to figure out what to charge.

As for the economy, that is such a loaded topic to address. Yes it affects all of us. However, you ladies have the ability to match your wages with the rising cost of living. That's part of being self employed. What isn't being accounted for is that many of us clients don't have that luxury to increase our hourly wages as we see fit. Our income actually lessens over time as cost of living rises, for those of us (which I'm pretty sure the majority of us) who make over minimum wage. As minimum wage goes up and the price of living goes up more and more our rate of pay stays the same while everything gets more expensive leaving us less money to spend on seeing you (not you specifically, royal you).

So the more the ladies raise the average cost of service, the less clients there will be over time as many of us have to reduce our frequency or get priced out entirely. Someone said it best earlier, it's about striking the perfect economic balance. Something that ladies like you, Ashlee, Kaydence, and many others do very well. Ultimately though, if ladies raise price to keep pace with inflation, economy, etc. in the long run, its SWs who will have less and less clients in the long run. With that being said, I would like to reiterate that I whole-heartedly believe that people should be compensated fairly. That will never change.

 

[Jenesis]

You're right, I didn't account for that. Mainly because, as you rightly pointed out the are way too many variables to consider in terms of expenses that vary so wildly that it's almost near impossible to calculate an average. So I went with gross pay to simply illustrate what I was trying to convey.

On the not including vacations, sick days, personal days etc, that's fair and is my bad on that.

I suppose what I should have said is "200/HH is becoming the average rate" or that I'm seeing more and more ladies charging that for either services that don't and shouldn't command that price (cbj and fs only) or their quality of service shouldn't command that price. I guess the reason I brought it up is because I personally am seeing that more and more normally than anything under 200/HH. I didn't exactly bring it up to "complain" as much as I wanted this to be an open discussion of thoughts and opinions on what my observations are.

As for this talk of agencies having been in Durham before and how clients here drive people away, I can't speak much in that because that was slightly before my time. I only caught the tail end of Class & Elegance before they stopped too. On the note of clients here being lowballers who drive people away, I can confirm that is 100% true. However, I would say that painting us all with that broad stroke isn't fair. Many of us, myself included, have no issue paying whatever is being asked for if the services and quality of that service match the price tag.

As I said, for me, it's more about the consistency in seeing unknowns, unreviewed ladies with this price or minimal or bad service with this price tag. As has already been said, providers talk and scout competition. You all know roughly how much each other are charging. The more frequently 200/hh is the answer, the closet it gets to becoming the average especially with new girls coming into the industry every day trying to figure out what to charge.

As for the economy, that is such a loaded topic to address. Yes it affects all of us. However, you ladies have the ability to match your wages with the rising cost of living. That's part of being self employed. What isn't being accounted for is that many of us clients don't have that luxury to increase our hourly wages as we see fit. Our income actually lessens over time as cost of living rises, for those of us (which I'm pretty sure the majority of us) who make over minimum wage. As minimum wage goes up and the price of living goes up more and more our rate of pay stays the same while everything gets more expensive leaving us less money to spend on seeing you (not you specifically, royal you).

So the more the ladies raise the average cost of service, the less clients there will be over time as many of us have to reduce our frequency or get priced out entirely. Someone said it best earlier, it's about striking the perfect economic balance. Something that ladies like you, Ashlee, Kaydence, and many others do very Ultimately though, if ladies raise price to keep pace with inflation, economy, etc. in the long run, its SWs who will have less and less clients in the long run. With that being said, I would like to reiterate that I whole-heartedly believe that people should be compensated fairly. That will never change.

A couple of points.

We have the luxury of matching our rise in rates with the rise in inflation. Yes and no. Some do and some don’t. However let’s say we all do for the sake of debate. We have that luxury because this is a luxury service. Don’t hate the player and all that jazz. We put up with a lot of shit too and I’m not taking client wise. We don’t get benefits or CPP (unless taxes are claimed properly) or EI like regular working stiffs. We don’t have a steady pay cheque. Trade offs right. There are benefits to being employees and benefits to being self employed. The grass is always going to look greener for some.

As for the rise in rates meaning less clients, all I will say is then the rates will come down or ladies will leave to richer places of work. Which is what happened to the agency girls. They made more out of the split in TO than agencies could give here in Durham. The guys controlled the market and controlled it so hard, that the girls simply left. I know plenty of girls who read the Durham section, who are still living in Durham but working TO and laugh saying “serves them right” when they see complaints of Durham being dry or complaining that they have to drive to Markham, etc for sessions.

Now I’m not saying all men, just like I know you were not saying all women. I thought that was a given but the majority of men, especially here on TERB were adamant about pricing back in the day and they fucked it for the lot of you.

Now if the average price does get to $200/hh maybe an agency could work with that or more girls might want to stick around but only time will tell on that one. The rise in the average rate may actually turn out to be a good thing, offering more competition because more ladies would be willing to work here again. Probably something you didn’t think about.

As for unknowns, non-reviewed ladies - I have no comment because if I was a guy, I wouldn’t touch them with someone else’s dick. That is just me though. I know guys want variety and shit but pay the higher rate for a known escort in Toronto over paying an unknown here in Durham. Part of the responsibility lies with the client. Half these women are 2-3 working the same hotel room so they only need a couple legit calls in the day. They rely on new-comers, not regulars and then change their ad when things get slow. It is the same in every city. You just don’t notice it as much because in TO, there is enough big game out there that seasoned hobbyist know where to look. But don’t get it twisted - there is just as much BS going on with girls in TO too. Charging stupid rates for basically no service and getting away with it. You just don’t hear it because those guys are not on TERB and the ones that are, use TERB.

Here in Durham, the guys on TERB still look for variety because there is just over a dozen or so of us who are legit based on reviews but tons more ads. However - there are still easily over 50-60% if not more of the client pool in Durham who are not on TERB and getting screwed over every day.

But let’s get back to your question. If I was a guy, would I pay $200 for a cbj and no kissing, no breast play, no daty, and one position usually being missionary so she can just lay there? In TO - hell no. Because there are more options. In Durham - probably not because I could just driving to TO. Or see a well reviewed lady here even if the pickings are slim. In say Linsday - maybe once in a while because I would probably be tried of flapping it to porn. It’s all relative isn’t it?

I hope this is more inline with your desire to debate and discuss.

 

[Subz109k]

The service is not matching the rates for 99.9% of these girls

 

[Mikediamond]

I’ve been around for a long time are well and yeah, a $400+ per hour session will never ever make sense to me. I’m not knocking the ladies that are able to charge it nor their clients that pay it but I’m fortunate enough to have options that serve me as good or better for a far better price.

Spending more isn’t always a sure sign that you’re getting a better service in this hobby or any other type of service.

Before COVID my rates were some of the highest. After COVID they are now considered lower and I haven’t changed them.

Before COVID it was harder to get away from the office and therefore it needed to be worth my time. Now after COVID, I’m semi retired, working from home with minimal expenses and therefore I kept the rates the same.

We all do what works for us. If a lady is bitching because another escorts rates are too low, then that is her problem. If you feel the escort at the lower rate is making more then you and you need more, lower your fucking rate. It is not rocket science. You have a quota, you break it down by client and then average out the rate. It is stupid to blame someone else for your lacking.

However, this bullshit complaint about rates is stupid as well. EVERYTHING has gone up. Housing, gas, utilities, food, insurance, clothing, all merchandise, etc. Minimum wage has gone up, government funded supports like OW/ODSP/OAS/GIS has gone up, so can someone please explain why escort rates should not go up as well.

I haven’t even gotten into escort expenses. Hotels, phones, ads, photography, websites, hair, make up. I’ll be lucky if I can get a bra for under $100. And that is not that fancy shit either. Just a nice black supportive bra. Granted my tits are huge and that is part of the problem, but this is 2024. We all have to deal.

These are the rates. Can’t afford them, find another sandbox to play in or spend the time to save. This is a luxury, not a necessity, no matter how much you guys wanna think that it is necessary to bust a nut.

Sorry if this sounds harsh but this is the reality and it is annoying AF to continue to read men whining about rates over and over.

You guys had it good in Durham for a long time. You lost basically every agency because of bitching and lowballing etc that it made it impossible for an agency to make money and keep the rates lower. Now you are left with indies and soon you might be out of those as well. The good ones anyways. Look around at some other sections of the board or ask your fellow hobbyist in Peterborough how dire the scene is. It can get worse. Just sayin’.

I will say, having said all that - I wouldn’t call $200/hh an average price. That is a more higher end price. Durham still has girls charging $100/hh. I would say average Durham price is $160ish.

I think we are confusing what is “average”. Although basic escort economics 101, hh price should be able to cover the full cost or at least 80% of the cost of the hotel. An escort should only need two hh calls to make her hotel, food, gas, ads, phone and site per shift. Then the rest of the calls should be profit which pays for all the escorts personal shit like her rent/food, etc. However, also from that profit you can minus other expenses like hair, nails, lingerie, etc. but for regular shift work, it is what I listed. This is breaking down expenses per client session of course. Lots of numbers to break down but that is standard from our end. Look at the average hotel cost for Durham. You will see why some rates are what they are. The bloody Super 8 and Motel 6 are 130/140 per night minimum. Without a “Priceline” booking. And those are shit holes. Anything worth using is 160-200 per night and that is with a Priceline booking. Just trying to put it in perspective

Concise and well-articulated, thank you very much.

 

[Mikediamond]

Everything is going up, so I can see why some providers who rely solely on this income to finance their life would have no choice. When I came back last November I had not been keeping up on rates and tried to do some research and see what everyone was doing for what. I too was surprised to see 200hh basic services so frequently. But then I thought hey, if they are getting that, good for them. I thought I priced myself reasonably for the service I provide/location/age I am in and all I got was hate from other ladies who have chosen to place themselves in a higher price bracket. So one really can't win when it comes to pricing.

That kind of hate comes from a place of insecurity about themselves and an inability to understand what an open market is. Competition is a good thing. If you’ve got a great product and service at a great price, you’ll stay busy. If you’re asking 40 percent more than the average going rate for the same thing, you’re going to be less busy. Both lanes have their pros and cons but watching your competitors pockets is a sure way to make yourself miserable. If your product is solid and you’re doing well, being petty towards your competitors is a bad look.

Comparison is the thief of joy.

 

[justplainbob]

Higher prices are good for me. Now every time I jerk off I put $160 in the jar instead of $120.

 

[taker2ez]

lots of long winded posts made here.
the truth is the whole world is based on supply and demand

 

[Ibeefat]

To me, I don't mind paying 200 for hh as long its:

- a full hh even if I only do one shot
-services are there such as bbbj, daty , dato etc

but there is always desperate moms on Tinder

 

[Callmerey]

One thing I know is agencies keep a huge cut to themselves so most likely you wont get a good service there, go for an independent girl who has good reviews. Don’t try new ones only to get scammed or can if you are trying to find a gem amongst scammers. Some girls are desperate of course but only due to their financial obligations. Although it’s always good to tip them a little which is for them and they don’t have to split it with anyone else.

 

[Jenesis]

One thing I know is agencies keep a huge cut to themselves so most likely you wont get a good service there, go for an independent girl who has good reviews. Don’t try new ones only to get scammed or can if you are trying to find a gem amongst scammers. Some girls are desperate of course but only due to their financial obligations. Although it’s always good to tip them a little which is for them and they don’t have to split it with anyone else.

Actually agencies usually only take 35-40% and incur all the expense cost. Advertising a girl could run $50 per shift, hotel on the conservative side $150. If we go just with that, and rates at $200/hh the split is $120/girl and $80 agency. The agency would have to ensure the girl did 3 calls, which is usually the girls close to max quota for the day based on tiredness and “wear and tear” so the agency is making $40 profit per shift per girl.

Now if you want to get into apartments, the average price of a 2 bedroom in say - white oaks, would be $2500 on the conservative side. Not including utilities and Internet. Making that roughly $85 per day. Meaning the girl would have to do 2 calls to cover expenses and make profit. Now you get 2 girls a day and you are into good profit margins. But I have not included site, phones, phone staff, supplies, laundry, photography. And you have to multiple girls to keep the place running on 12-14 hours a day/ 7 days a week. And multiple good girls who provide the types of services that guys want which is basically the kitchen sink.

And remember, you have to pay out of pocket at first to furnish the place properly. That is not even getting into security and lockers and other stuff that guys don’t see because they only go into the bedrooms.

This is why I say an agency could not survive on $120 like it was back in the day or $140-$150 even now. Even then, that would have been hard, but even harder now. There is not as much profit as one thinks.

Now these are just numbers being thrown out. Not much proper math involved, just quick math but agencies do all of the admin work and pay out all the expenses. They earn their cut. IMHO.

 

[m.diver]

Even if the lady only sees 2 clients per day, 5 days a week at $300/hour, that equals out to being 152k per year.

Tax free

 

[DesRicardo]

These women gotta buy groceries too.

 

[Jenesis]

Tax free

I wish.

 

[walleyejack]

These women gotta buy groceries too.

yea they do that also.. and scam the govt for the tax cash, thats how they buy groceries.. just a tax free cash grab.. you think they reporting it LOL
occupation.. Sex worker
income.. $200k per yr
ok.. you are good to go.. we not taking tax from you

 

[walleyejack]

One thing I know is agencies keep a huge cut to themselves so most likely you wont get a good service there, go for an independent girl who has good reviews. Don’t try new ones only to get scammed or can if you are trying to find a gem amongst scammers. Some girls are desperate of course but only due to their financial obligations. Although it’s always good to tip them a little which is for them and they don’t have to split it with anyone else.

my buddy only uses agencies the last few years. reliable girls, all mint, $160 fs. he uses 2 or 3 different ones. All good service ladies.. can t beat the service or the pricing.. NO upcharge.

 

[DesRicardo]

yea they do that also.. and scam the govt for the tax cash, thats how they buy groceries.. just a tax free cash grab.. you think they reporting it LOL
occupation.. Sex worker
income.. $200k per yr
ok.. you are good to go.. we not taking tax from you

You graduated high school?

 

[ashlee.]

Tax free

lots of us pay taxes. I have to remit HST. I could even give you a quickbooks invoice if you needed it.

 

[justplainbob]

lots of us pay taxes. I have to remit HST. I could even give you a quickbooks invoice if you needed it.

What would you call it? My per diem is pretty generous...