Ontario Privatization?

[my2cents]

So for those that are all in favour of selling everything off everything, I suspect you have no problem paying the high prices charged by the 407. Of course you accept being billed years late with a huge interest charge and you rejoice that the current government can do nothing about the 407 practices. Oh yea how much did each taxpayer get back directly when they sold the 407, oh yea nothing.
Sorry this whole privatize everything, it will be better campain, has been shown time and again to have its flaws. Consumers, who used to own the company, get higher prices and nothing in return. Pro union, anti union is another argument than the one of privatizing.
Anytime privatization is mentioned it is wrapped in anti union arguments I say seperate the two arguments because one does not relate to the other.

 

[shakenbake]

So for those that are all in favour of selling everything off everything, I suspect you have no problem paying the high prices charged by the 407. Of course you accept being billed years late with a huge interest charge and you rejoice that the current government can do nothing about the 407 practices. Oh yea how much did each taxpayer get back directly when they sold the 407, oh yea nothing.
Sorry this whole privatize everything, it will be better campain, has been shown time and again to have its flaws. Consumers, who used to own the company, get higher prices and nothing in return. Pro union, anti union is another argument than the one of privatizing.
Anytime privatization is mentioned it is wrapped in anti union arguments I say seperate the two arguments because one does not relate to the other.

I agree with what you have said 100 %. Although I agreed with some of Harris' Common Sense Revolution, the 407 privatisation debacle was one of the worst things that he did. Thank goodness the power utility and teh LCBO weren't privatised! They latter makes tons of money for the province, and, because of the tax structures in place, booze would be far more expensive in private hands, IMHO.

 

[hinz]

The privatization is long over due since neither the Tories nor the Liberals have the backbones to make it happen, without adequate NDP votes as roadblocks.

Privatizing 407 makes sense since this force people to pay for the realistic cost to use the highway. Too bad not all 400s series highway are toll and the unions take hostage to the decrepit transportation, while the politicians cut the funding in order to show their consituents, many of them suburban car owners and in the past autombile companies that they work for them.

Regarding LCBO, Ontario should follow Alberta example by privatizing the retail stores, making stores that are essentially cash cows survive and stop subsidizing the money losing ones. Plus, it's always a good thing to stop hiring overpaid union workforce.

For Toronto Hydro, they should privatize long ago to the insitutional investors as long as they have scheme of control agreements, guaranteeing min 10% on the return on net fixed assets. This could be done by having IPO at the TSX and waiting TransCanada Pipeline, Enbridge, Fortis, Canadian Utilities of the world to takeover and have both big insitutional say Teacher's Pension Fund and Mom & Pops retail investors to invest their retirement funds and get the dividends.

Again Union is the stumbling block and helding hostage to all common sense Canadians looking for securing retirements.

As far as the Lotteries are concern, the gaming industry should merge with Woodbine racetracks, Casino Niagara and Rama into one big entity which monopolize all gambling and betting entertainment in Ontario. This new entity should invest heavily on marketing, technologies to place bets on line, revamping locations for the punters to place the bets similar to day trading stocks at Bay or Wall Streets, while using the big annual surplus to fund a minority to gambling addiction (to cover their butt and slient those religious fundamentalists on the right ) and devote the rest to charity and community projects.

But again both the extreme left and right are stumbling block to the plan.

Who's going to be next? How about TTC and Go Transit?

 

[SkyRider]

Private vs public ownership is always an interesting debate.

Our telecom companies are all privately owned but heavily government regulated as are Enbridge and TransAlta and to a large degree the banks.

Just heard that the Toronto Police Services submitted a budget of over $900 million for next year. Wonder if the private sector could do a more efficient job at a lower cost?

 

[good to go]

I still think that we would get better, more efficient and FRIENDLIER service from private sector employees. Anybody bought TTC tickets from a TTC employee recently? I tried to buy one of those temporary tickets and the TTC guys simply said "NO". He rudely said I had to buy at least 5. Why would I buy 5 TEMPORARY tickets that will be worthless in 2 weeks?

Yeah , I know that you hate unions. What makes you think that it was his idea to price it and sell it like that. It all comes from above my friend, try and look at both ends of the box. All you see is one problem, if you had to work for these clowns you would really get an eye opener.Most if not all management at the TTC have only a high school education.

 

[Keebler Elf]

Unions were very valuable in the days when employers had all the power and abused that power.

Because of course today's employers wouldn't abuse their power the instant the unions disappeared.

So naive.

 

[Keebler Elf]

There is no better reason than the 407 fiasco for government NOT to sell off the assets in question.

The Lottery Corp and LCBO are licenses to print money (as was the 407). Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One are to an extent as well, but in those cases the benefit is more than it makes economic sense to have them be public or quasi-public because the capital involved is so huge that to get private enterprise involved means spectacular electricity price increases in the short run (Mike Harris, anyone?).

 

[JohnLarue]

Yeah , I know that you hate unions. What makes you think that it was his idea to price it and sell it like that. It all comes from above my friend, try and look at both ends of the box. All you see is one problem, if you had to work for these clowns you would really get an eye opener.Most if not all management at the TTC have only a high school education.

My boss is an asswipe so I get to treat the customer like an asswipe?

That is the most pathetic excuse for piss poor customer service I have ever heard.

Some of the TTC employees are friendly and curtious, probably because they treat other people with some respect and dignity in thier non-professional life and they understand that without a customer there is no job.

However there are a number of rude ticket takers who treat the customer like shit.
Why do they act this way
1. They are probably self-absorbed, unfriendly, lazy fucks in their non-professional life.(Yeah a professional ticket taker with an attitude, what a joke)
2. They know they can get away with it.

Unions have done some positive things in the past, most notably improve worker safety, however they have out lived their usefulness when customers get treated like shit because a union will protect an asshole from being corrected

 

[Keebler Elf]

Unions have done some positive things in the past, most notably improve worker safety, however they have out lived their usefulness when customers get treated like shit because a union will protect an asshole from being corrected

Unions are no substitute for being raised properly by your parents. They can't teach manners.

 

[Rockslinger]

Yeah , I know that you hate unions.

Bad unions should not be exempt from criticism.

 

[Rockslinger]

However there are a number of rude ticket takers who treat the customer like shit.
Why do they act this way
1. They are probably self-absorbed, unfriendly, lazy fucks in their non-professional life.(Yeah a professional ticket taker with an attitude, what a joke)
2. They know they can get away with it.

They are on a power and ego trip. Petty little wannabe aristocrats.

 

[duang]

Because of course today's employers wouldn't abuse their power the instant the unions disappeared.

So naive.

Oh, those big bad companies.

Today's employees have much more protection than 100 and 200 years ago when unions were a net positive influence. Now unions are often a net negative influence and their influence should be lessened since they cost consumers more and weaken the economy.

Thank you for your educational comment. I will try to learn from you to lessen my naivite you condescending little... oops, I mean oh wise little elf.

D.

 

[duang]

There is no better reason than the 407 fiasco for government NOT to sell off the assets in question.

The Lottery Corp and LCBO are licenses to print money (as was the 407). Ontario Power Generation and Hydro One are to an extent as well, but in those cases the benefit is more than it makes economic sense to have them be public or quasi-public because the capital involved is so huge that to get private enterprise involved means spectacular electricity price increases in the short run (Mike Harris, anyone?).

The 407 sell off might very not have been done well but it's still better to look for a way to get running some enterprises out of the government's hands. But you do want to make sure that the long term interests of the taxpayers are being taken care of and that the bureaucrats aren't being paid off by the purchaser.

The Lottery Corp and LCBO aren't profit centers as they like to spin it out to the naive people: they are just extra taxes on consumers. Tax payers would benefit enormously if you ran those without the waste that the government adds to their structure [scads of 6 digit earning middle managers; bottle shufflers being paid way more than the $30K per year they deserve; etc.].

Pensions would buy into the utilities in a heartbeat [see today's National Post] and I would much rather have private enterprise running these than the short term dolts in government. Do you think they are doing a good job? I don't think so unless you happen to be one of the overpaid enjoying the cushy job and gold plated pension.

http://www.financialpost.com/news-sectors/story.html?id=2360120

I don't think you really make much sense here by invoking Mike Harris since I think the price increases were due to trying to reflect the true cost of energy. The prices charged are artificially low to keep it palatable and the tax payer is absorbing the difference to keep the low prices. Better to face reality and start to show consumers what energy really costs instead of keeping your head in the sand.

D.

 

[hinz]

I don't think you really make much sense here by invoking Mike Harris since I think the price increases were due to trying to reflect the true cost of energy. The prices charged are artificially low to keep it palatable and the tax payer is absorbing the difference to keep the low prices. Better to face reality and start to show consumers what energy really costs instead of keeping your head in the sand.

Mike Harris is a wuss when it comes to seriously cut the fats out of the system.

Like other so-called "fiscal Conversatives" on paper, they do not have the backbones to cut the fat and raise the fees/taxes to fix and balance the budget, money that is vital as emergency reserve to perfect storm like the "Great Recession" following the collapse of the Lehman Brothers.

Guess it doesn't matter since the politicians of all stripes follow the maxim of spending the way out of their messes they dig deep in by promising entitlements without the sacriface necessary to pay the cost for upkeeping. They argue, correctly that this is the "price" for a democracy since no sane politicians would risk their careers, tell the constituents the inconvienient, ugly truths by doing these simple, not easy resolutions.

Somethings never change and learn when the majority bet their kids and grandkids would understand and pay for the bills....eventually to fix their mess.

 

[21pro]

uhmmm... perhaps this entire thread is a political argument?

 

[duang]

Would you be an interested buyer if Ontario privatize Ontario Lottery, Liquor Board and Ontario Hydro? Seems like these entities produce an almost guaranteed income stream.

Today's National Post:


Michael Nobrega, president and chief executive of Ontario Municipal Employees Retirement System (OMERS), says his pension plan has weathered the economic crisis. The bounce in equity markets and the strength of OMERS' real-estate and infrastructure portfolio has helped take the bite out of 2008's dismal returns, a decline of 15.3%. Mr. Nobrega, a former accountant who grew up in Guyana, is looking forward to the future. While OMERS lost its bid in October to buy the Gatwick Airport in the United Kingdom, he does see "huge" opportunities in infrastructure and real estate, particularly assets the Ontario government may put on the auction block to offset its deficit, estimated to be $24.7-billion this fiscal year alone. In an interview this week, Mr. Nobrega talks about the assets the pension plan is most interested in acquiring and why OMERS would run them better than the Ontario government.

Read more: http://www.financialpost.com/news-sectors/story.html?id=2360120#ixzz0aAJqFxTG
The Financial Post is now on Facebook. Join our fan community today.

http://www.financialpost.com/news-sectors/story.html?id=2360120

If OMERS is interested it seems safe to assume that other pension plans would be too.

D.

 

[duang]

Mike Harris is a wuss when it comes to seriously cut the fats out of the system.

Like other so-called "fiscal Conservatives" on paper, they do not have the backbones to cut the fat and raise the fees/taxes to fix and balance the budget, money that is vital as emergency reserve to perfect storm like the "Great Recession" following the collapse of the Lehman Brothers.

Guess it doesn't matter since the politicians of all stripes follow the maxim of spending the way out of their messes they dig deep in by promising entitlements without the sacrifice necessary to pay the cost for upkeeping. They argue, correctly that this is the "price" for a democracy since no sane politicians would risk their careers, tell the constituents the inconvienient, ugly truths by doing these simple, not easy resolutions.

Somethings never change and learn when the majority bet their kids and grandkids would understand and pay for the bills....eventually to fix their mess.

I agree, even the so-called Conservatives don't have the cojones to actually cut spending. I still hold out hope that if they get a majority they might actually act like Conservatives and cut spending so they can lower taxes while downsizing government.

D.

 

[hinz]

I agree, even the so-called Conservatives don't have the cojones to actually cut spending. I still hold out hope that if they get a majority they might actually act like Conservatives and cut spending so they can lower taxes while downsizing government.

The chance is slim since we're living in a democracy and people vote for the politicians who share the same wave length and further the agendas that suit their immediate needs, not necessarily for the good of the country.

As far as having the Tories to be a majority, don't count on them "walk the talk" since it's more convienient and easier for them to be social conservatives to win votes instead of having common sense to do the "heavy lifting", meaning raising user fees and cutting non-essential government services altogether while simultaneously implementing "severence packages" to buyout baby boomer civil servants to retire early, (rehiring them as consultants on contract basis at a fraction of cost if necessary) and grandfather the generous, not sustainable DB plan for most government departments, except discplinary services. New hired going forward are going to have DC plan with government matching.

Assuming if any of the ideas above could be implemented and that's big IF, income taxes should be lower and CRA should be shrunk. Whatever costs saved should be used to pay down debts and improve spending incrementally on the military.

One must be dreaming all of them could happen in this land without violent resistance from the Union and the NDP. Do not be surprised the fiscal health of the government is going to be disturbingly identical to General Motors or Chrysler of world.

 

[hinz]

Just heard that the Toronto Police Services submitted a budget of over $900 million for next year. Wonder if the private sector could do a more efficient job at a lower cost?

I assume you are not suggesting City Hall and the Police to cut cost by outsourcing some duties and hiring guards from Xe, formerly known as the Blackwater to arm to the teeth on patrol, and execute search warrents and arrests in neighborhood say Jane and Finch or Regent Park areas.....

 

[JohnLarue]

I assume you are not suggesting City Hall and the Police to cut cost by outsourcing some duties and hiring guards from Xe, formerly known as the Blackwater to arm to the teeth on patrol, and execute search warrents and arrests in neighborhood say Jane and Finch or Regent Park areas.....

If you were to look closely at that budget, I suspect you would find a huge amount is spent on administration.
Is there waste?
In most government run agencies yes