Once a John, Always a .............

[genintoronto]

Commodity fetishism is a favorite sandbox of second year graduate students, but former sex worker Sarah Katherine Lewis is misapplying Marx's concept here. His point was to poke fun at the notion that value resides in physical objects rather than the human effort that goes into producing said objects. It is NOT "the reduction of human relations to that of producer and consumer".

Commodity fetishism is more like thinking that Genintoronto's Gucci clutch is worth $300 rather than her human effort in producing your orgasm(s).

I am so NOT getting into an argument on Marx and commodity fetishism, but I'd like to point out that I own only one designer purse, which was given to me by the lovely Jillian for Xmas, and it's a Marc Jacob, not a Gucci one.

Please, lets get our facts straight here.

 

[saliksalik]

I am so NOT getting into an argument on Marx and commodity fetishism, but I'd like to point out that I own only one designer purse, which was given to me by the lovely Jillian for Xmas, and it's a Marc Jacob, not a Gucci one.

Please, lets get our facts straight here.

We may now delve into the exotic eroticism of Gucci v/s Marc Jacob. That I hope is better than commodity fetishism of Marx. ;-)

 

[lavameltme]

And they say that women are the one who can't separate sex from love...


What many of you fail to understand is that being treated like a client by your sex worker (SP, strippers, MPs) is not a comment on your potential as dating material or friend material. She treats you like a client because that's her job, that's what you are paying her for.

As I said before, but it bears repeating, you can't at once pay for a fantasy and bitch that you're only getting a fantasy and not the real thing.

As I've also said before, you wouldn't expect your therapist to treat you as anything less or more than a client/patient. She won't see you outside of your professional appointment. And she won't call you, like a friend would do, just to check up on you. If she does call you, it will be as a professional. Your therapist provides you with a very intimate, personal, caring service: she is there to listen to you, to help you understand and process your feelings and emotions, to give you support and guidance in dealing with whatever is going on in your life. In many ways, the service she provides you with resemble what a friend, family member, or partner would do for you. But she's not a friend, family member, or partner. And while she most likely genuily care about your well-being, in order to the the job you pay her for properly, she will refrain from getting emotionally involved in the relationship you have with her, and she will always treat you as nothing less, nothing more than a patient/client. And if she needs debriefing or support to deal with her own emotions and needs as they relate to her job, she will seek the assistance of another professional therapist, not you.

My job as an SP is to provide you with a fantasy, to cater to your sexual needs and desires. This is not a reciprocal relationship: it's all about you, what you want, what you need, how you want to fuck me, how you want me to cum, how you want me to dress, how you want me to make you feel. You are paying me to be a fantasy version of me, to not have emotions and feelings of my own outside of the limited ones that you want to inspire in me, you are paying me to not bother you with the mundanity of my life, you are paying me to be always smilling, always happy to fuck, always wanting to fuck more, you are paying me to not care about my own orgasms unless you want me to make you feel like the best lover on earth.

In order for me to do my job, and to do it well, I have to treat you as a paying client, not a friend, not a lover. And in order for me to keep my own sanity and to not be hurt and frustrated by the non-reciprocal, unidirectional, and sometimes very instrumental aspect of my relationships with my clients, I have to keep the boundaries very clear between my professional and personal life.

Yes I agree but after many years of experience I realize that what we try to do and actually accomplish is not always the same. Good Luck PS I am turning sixty next week do you offer birthday fantasy f**ks with oral ending.

 

[Ulan Bator]

I'snt ANYONE going to ask where this place is so someone can go fix that john!!!!!

Hey, bro.......Don't worry about it...I'm sure mamasan fixed it herself!

 

[smylee52]

The term "hobbying" IMO is a joke! My hobby is working on my car and playing hockey. Having sex with prostitutes is no where near my hobby!

A john will always be and only be a john.
A whore will always be and only be a whore.

Without a whore there are no johns.
Without johns there are no whores.

Whore:
Pronunciation: \ˈhȯr, ˈhu̇r\
Function: noun
Date: before 12th century
1: a woman who engages in sexual acts for money : prostitute
I dont see anything wrong with being either of the two.

Thx for posting .


Pejorative

Tending to make or become worse.
Disparaging; belittling.
n.
A disparaging or belittling word or expression.

pejoratively pe·jor'a·tive·ly adv.


That's what John and whore represent to me . You call me a John I will think of you as a whore . Those words are used with a demeaning and dehumanizing intent . No different then any other personal slight . It's basically name calling .

SP and client or customer impart a little more sense of respect for our respective places in the sex industry . You can say it nicely or not so nicely , your choice .

So I would never say once a John is always a John . If I did say a whore is always a whore it would be meant as an insult and I would expect a woman
to accept it as nothing less .

 

[Carrie Moon]

I also think that the more intimate the service provided, the more likely the provider is going to draw hard boundaries between her/his professional and personal life.

Absolutely.. but also I have found myself because of the intimacy of the appt sharing information that I wouldn't share to another person because of the secret we share.

Having said that I wouldn't meet them in public outside of an appt. I also do not have friends become clients once they find out what I do. I like to keep my boundaries clear.

It is unlikely that your therapist or care-giver is going to be OK with hanging out with you outside of the professional service they are providing. And if they do decide to see you in a non-professional capacity, they will most likely stop being your therapist or care-giver. For most people in the caring industry (whether sex workers, nurses and other caregivers, therapists, etc.) we need those boundaries in order to remain emotionally and mentally sane.

Care-givers in the medical/therapy sector can't see clients outside romantically for sure! They will lose their license if it's found out. This is of course to protect the clients from possible emotional injury.

 

[enduser1]

Having said that I wouldn't meet them in public outside of an appt. I also do not have friends become clients once they find out what I do. I like to keep my boundaries clear.

Hello,

As I have been involved in the swinger community I can say that boundries should always be respected. But frankly, I do have friends who are ex escorts. If an escort wants hard boundries I certainly shall respect them. As someone here on TERB posted there are plenty of fish in the sea.

What I reject is the idea that two human beings can share something as intimate as a sexual encounter and then deny the existance of feelings if they arise. They may reject a future relationship because they are already in one, but if the feelings are there they should not twist themselves out of shape denying them. It is actually recognized as one of the big relationship dangers of swinging.

As for my approach to escorts I very rarely see the same escort twice as a way of guarding myself against emotional attachments.

EU

 

[Carrie Moon]

Here are some interesting excerpts on the subjects by an SP who wrote a book: How I Make It and Fake It as a Girl for Hire

"“ There was no love, and there was no caring; there was no gentleness. There was nothing erotic about it in any way, and the communication was all lies ... Frankly, it broke my heart. And that’s when I started writing my book.”


“Sarah made an excellent point that, while the sex industry is exploitative of women, it goes both ways. She said she was equally exploitative of the male customers, whom she eventually failed to view as humans.”

http://cornellsun.com/node/22711

I find this disturbing that this woman took such disillusionment out of her job. I believe you get exactly in life what you are looking for.. and I find the exact opposite happens in my line of work. I think providing sex-work is full of caring, gentleness and eroticism. In fact love as well.. because love is an action/verb.. as well as a romantic ideal.

I've even recently found that while I was previously incapable of domination I could offer that (ie slapping a client in the face) as a service of caring and love.. because that was his fantasy and he thanked me for it!

I get great satisfaction out of the customer serviced aspect of my job that Gen so eloquently explained.

And as for boundaries.. I've worked for several years in a customer service/sales/corporate environment as well and some clients we met and became friends with outside of work.

BUT when I went from customer service to sales I was told point blank not to socialize at lunch any more with my previous customer service rep colleagues.

There was even more of a defined line/boundary between this group of employees and the management staff/sales reps. I was appalled.. but realized how true they kept to it.. previously thinking it was an unwritten rule.. here I was being told directly by my manager.

Another example (because I do spend so much time shopping)... when I buy something and the sales clerk is going out of their way to be friendly.. do I think they wish to be friends? heck no.. they're just trying to make a sale. In other words.. we're all whoring in one way or another.

 

[Carrie Moon]

Hello,

As I have been involved in the swinger community I can say that boundries should always be respected. But frankly, I do have friends who are ex escorts. If an escort wants hard boundries I certainly shall respect them. As someone here on TERB posted there are plenty of fish in the sea.

What I reject is the idea that two human beings can share something as intimate as a sexual encounter and then deny the existance of feelings if they arise. They may reject a future relationship because they are already in one, but if the feelings are there they should not twist themselves out of shape denying them. It is actually recognized as one of the big relationship dangers of swinging.

As for my approach to escorts I very rarely see the same escort twice as a way of guarding myself against emotional attachments.

EU

totally agree.. and I have not only dated clients (about 5 in my total 20 years of my career) I have wistfully wished on several occasions that some of my married clients were single so I could ask them out.. BUT this is rare.. in the similar rarity that I would find someone as an office colleague to date. 95-99% of my clients I wouldn't date in other words.

And your last statement is true as well.. some clients have stopped seeing me because of the emotional feelings they were developing.. while others have expressed them and been able to contain them so as to continue seeing me.

Also interesting how you said.. ex-escorts. This just reiterates my previous and other's comments that once the relationship moves from a non-escorting to friend/other basis.. it can't go back.

I've had only one instance where I dated a regular client and it didn't work out and we went back to the client/escort relationship.. he is now married and we're still friends but from a distance.

 

[enduser1]

Ok Carrie,

I think we are on the same page. The internet can be very frustrating because it makes people sound more strident that they really are.

EU

 

[Carrie Moon]

yes! The written language leaves out sooooo much in communication.. that's why so much clarification is needed on thoughts. Body language, vocal intonation and facial expression tell you way more than words.. esp as I'm so kinesthetic. I tend to put a hand on a knee/arm in some cases as I say something as well when I laugh to connect with a point.

 

[toughb]

Santa Claus and the Easter Bonny don't exist for real.

Good news Gen. He exists. I saw him kissing sis last Christmas...

 

[genintoronto]

That's what John and whore represent to me . You call me a John I will think of you as a whore . Those words are used with a demeaning and dehumanizing intent . No different then any other personal slight . It's basically name calling .

SP and client or customer impart a little more sense of respect for our respective places in the sex industry . You can say it nicely or not so nicely , your choice .

So I would never say once a John is always a John . If I did say a whore is always a whore it would be meant as an insult and I would expect a woman
to accept it as nothing less .

Yes, those terms have a pejorative connotation to them, but like most pejorative terms, they can be re-appropriated. I personally much prefer "john" to "client" and "hooker", or even "whore" to "escort". Maybe it's my french ear, but john almost sounds endearing to me, like a cute nickname. "Client" is too business-like, too impersonal. At least with "john", the term implies some sort of more personal relationship to me, because of the use of a first name rather than an impersonal category.

And outside of Terb, where it's just faster to type SP than hooker, I never use the term SP or escort to refer to what I do. I usually refer to myself as "hooker". I like the dirtyness associated with the term: that dirtyness is part of what I like about this job. I don't want to pretend it's not there by using a sanitized term to refer to what I do.

But that's just me. I know other SPs hate being referred to as hookers or whores, and never use these terms when referring to themselve or their job.

Of course, it's always contingent on the context. But then again, if someone calls me a 'whore' to insult me, it's usually not only the term they use that is insulting, but what is being said around it.

 

[genintoronto]

What I reject is the idea that two human beings can share something as intimate as a sexual encounter and then deny the existance of feelings if they arise. They may reject a future relationship because they are already in one, but if the feelings are there they should not twist themselves out of shape denying them. It is actually recognized as one of the big relationship dangers of swinging.

I completely agree with you that we can't completely control what feelings or emotions will come our way, and it's foolish to believe we can. But we always have a choice on how to act on those feelings and emotions.

 

[toughb]

This is from another thread now running...

I completely agree with you that we can`t completely control what feelings or emotions will come our way, and it`s foolish to believe we can. But we always have a choice on how to act on those feelings and emotions.

***

Has a lot of merit...


https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=231277

...

 

[enduser1]

I usually refer to myself as "hooker". I like the dirtyness associated with the term: that dirtyness is part of what I like about this job. I don't want to pretend it's not there by using a sanitized term to refer to what I do.

Currently I'm not in a GFE phase. Certainly you have the attitude I have been looking for for some time........

EU

 

[Ulan Bator]

I've read the most recent postings here and enjoyed them but I believe the meaning of my original post has been somewhat slurred in the interim.

My point was that posters on this board, not all but many, seem to think that being some sort of hero, saviour or buddy to an SP or MPA will get them some weird sort of brownie point. Why?

Why, if an SP posts here about, say, trouble starting her car, posters here have to fall all over themselves to come over and offer their services. What do they expect? Or if somebody happens to give a popular MPA a negative review, posters jump all over him?

Maybe I am overly suspicious of motivations but I think a lot of posters feel that if they ingratiate themselves enough with a particular provider they may be lucky enough to get the proverbial holy grail -- A FREEBIE -- for being so nice, so heroic, so.....wonderful. Either that or they are obsessed with the idea that they are more than just a 'john'.

My original observation was that it doesn't matter. You are a john. Whether you throw your coat over a mud puddle to let an SP pass or whether you beat the crap out of a client bickering with an MPA over fees -- IT DOESN'T MATTER!!

 

[Carrie Moon]

I've read the most recent postings here and enjoyed them but I believe the meaning of my original post has been somewhat slurred in the interim.

My point was that posters on this board, not all but many, seem to think that being some sort of hero, saviour or buddy to an SP or MPA will get them some weird sort of brownie point. Why?

Why, if an SP posts here about, say, trouble starting her car, posters here have to fall all over themselves to come over and offer their services. What do they expect? Or if somebody happens to give a popular MPA a negative review, posters jump all over him?

Maybe I am overly suspicious of motivations but I think a lot of posters feel that if they ingratiate themselves enough with a particular provider they may be lucky enough to get the proverbial holy grail -- A FREEBIE -- for being so nice, so heroic, so.....wonderful. Either that or they are obsessed with the idea that they are more than just a 'john'.

My original observation was that it doesn't matter. You are a john. Whether you throw your coat over a mud puddle to let an SP pass or whether you beat the crap out of a client bickering with an MPA over fees -- IT DOESN'T MATTER!!

Yes. well the enjoyable part of a forum is discussion.. if you only want your point to be heard start up a blog I have one and then only the people I want to comment, get to do so once I approve their comment! http://www.milfcarriemoon.blogspot.com

 

[S.C. Joe]

Looking back I am glad I dated a few SP many times..yes at first I got emotionally involved but now 15-20 years later I'm numb. I seen this one gal a few times cause I really liked her but last summer she wasn't the same with me (told me she never liked petting, etc cause shes ticklish) knew dam well she was lying to me--last date was 8 months earlier but if she was like that at first I would not have ever re-book her. Then she cuts out a good 10 mins early...we still was friendly to each other right to the "good bye" see you next time.

Ha, her butt is history...she was even booked on when I was in town last and I was looking for a date...just looked at her name and moved right on....went with two others from another company.

I guess the saying "Men are like carpet...lay them right the first time, you can walk all over them forever" has some merit....but not all men, not all

 

[Mencken]

This whole thing stirs up a lot of emotion...

SP's are professionals. As Noir said, clients are clients most of the time, and remain so. I think they try hard to make it a great experience for their clients, but clients are still clients - not boyfriends.

The clients get it confused. Because they want something more than just sex really. They want a "relationship" of some kind (friend, lover whatever) with these ladies who are just trying to provide a good experience and keep good clients happy.

So if you offer to change her tires, fix her plumbing, do her taxes...whatever...you are still a client. Some may decide to humor you and others won't want anything to do with it.

Basically we, for the most part, are not boyfriend or potential husband material. If you want a relationship then find someone who may want one with you. And that won't be a pretty girl half or less your age...usually. As nice as that might seem as a fantasy.