Once a John, Always a .............

[Ulan Bator]

Let's all admit one thing.....We're just basically johns nothing more nothing less.

I went to an MP a few weeks back and, after washing up in their bathroom/shower room, saw that their toilet was stuck on -- ie. wouldn't shut off after flushing. On my way out, I showed it to mamasan and offered to fix it. She just said, "I call you, I call you" and proceeded to literally push me out the door. WTF? How could she call me? She didn't have my number!

Back in my car I started to ask myself why I even bothered. Was it because I wanted to be thought of more than just a john? I think so. Later, I remembered reading a post one time (here on the TERB actually) about an SP who had dropped out of sight for one reason or another and a poster commenting that he was 'worried about her'. Why? Would she worry if that person stopped calling her for whatever reason? Or the poster that said if he heard a client yelling at a lady in an MP, he'd jump up from the table and intervene to 'protect' her. Why? Another time, on an SP's discussion board, everyone was talking about a hockey game that had been on T.V. the previous night, the SP included, and some genius piped up with an offer to take her to that team's next game forcing her to diplomatically refuse. Was this guy for real? Was he serious?

Why do some people feel that being some sort of hero, saviour or 'buddy' to an SP or MPA will make them more than just a 'john'?? It doesn't. As for myself, I try to labour under no illusions no matter how friendly the ladies seem to be. I've been given cell numbers, phone numbers on the back of calling cards...etc. and I've thrown all of them away, usually right in the parking lot as I'm driving off. Once I made the mistake of calling a lady who gave me her cell # and I was shocked at how unfriendly she was. You see, I wasn't calling to make an appointment, just to ask a scheduling question. Never again after that!

If you ever find yourself trying to take things to another level in this hobby, stop and think. You're just a john, that's all you've ever been and all you ever will be. Sorry.

 

[genintoronto]

I always find this kind of posts somewhat amusing.

Do you also feel the need to remind yourself that you are just a client after seeing a therapist, going to a spa, being served a good meal at a restaurant, saying good-night to your babysitter, etc.?

Why yes you are a client, nothing more nothing less. That's why you paid to get the service that was provided to you. You'd think the exchange of money would make that clear, and that there would be no surprise or hurt feelings about the nature of the relationship.

 

[1andun]

I always find this kind of posts somewhat amusing.

Do you also feel the need to remind yourself that you are just a client after seeing a therapist, going to a spa, being served a good meal at a restaurant, saying good-night to your babysitter, etc.?

Why yes you are a client, nothing more nothing less. That's why you paid to get the service that was provided to you. You'd think the exchange of money would make that clear, and that there would be no surprise or hurt feelings about the nature of the relationship.

OUCH!! But true

 

[genintoronto]

OUCH!! But true

See, I don't get why/how this is hurtful.

You are paying me to provide you with a service. I give you the best service I can, within the confine of our relationship. Which means that I don't bother my clients with the mundanity of my life, I put on a smile even if I'm not feeling it, I give my clients the most pleasant and sexiest version of me, and if need be, I'll pretend to have the best time of my life even if the client is a lousy lay. That's what I am paid to do. But no, you can't pay me to be your friend or partner.

You can't at once pay for a fantasy, and then complain that you're only getting a fantasy.

 

[LatinDancer]

You know you are no longer just a john when they accept your acts of kindness.

 

[Davy.Biggie]

I am simply me

But what do you do when the lines are no longer there? When there is no exchange of money? When the time you share has nothing to do with business? When the SP is no longer an SP? This must happen.

 

[Noir]

But what do you do when the lines are no longer there? When there is no exchange of money? When the time you share has nothing to do with business? When the SP is no longer an SP? This must happen.

Yup, it happens. Quite often but it really is not an easy or savory change.

I've established friendships with very select clients that I got along with and I got burned TERRIBLY by the end of the friendship. For some reason, certain guys think that once you become friends, sex is just a natural daily occurrence...and of course they don't have to pay. =p (I mean, I am having sex all day, everyday aren't I? I should be able to squeeze them into my day somewhere free of charge...*dripping with sarcasm*)

If they manage to get it through their heads that I am probably not going to want to entertain that bed-ridden fantasy, then it moves onto something more romantic. Dinner, candles, Barry White and some wine...hoping to lead into sex. (lol, the wool was pulled RIGHT OVER my eyes.)

If they manage to get past the wining and dining stage, they start to see what Noir is really about - the fact that I don't shave my arm pits on my off days, I like to have my hair up and I don't in fact clean my house in 7" stilettos. Sometimes they stay after that...sometimes they don't. I have met some "friends" who used to be clients, but realistically very few of them stayed once they realized that I wasn't going to confess my life story in one day, and that I don't fall for their MO of getting free punani (anymore).

When there is no money exchanged, no sexual activities taking place and a mutual respect between both parties - then you are friends. If you're screwing on the side with no money exchanged, you're a FB. If there are confirmed romantic feelings between the two parties then it's called dating. Just like normal people. ^_^

I find that it is very difficult to move between the two levels of a real friendship and a business engagement, given the fact that I (as an SP) has been with you (client) at your most intimate time. It's kind of hard for most hobbyists to sweep that under the rug and look at an SP as a normal person as opposed to a bucking bronco.

Just take it a day at a time and go with the flow. ^_^

 

[james t kirk]

Who cares.

There are no hard set rules in life. You be nice to someone, hopefully they'll be nice back. If you want to ask an SP to a hockey game, she might say yes, she might say no because she doesn't want to mix business with pleasure or send out mixed signals.

Take it how it comes.

If she says yes (you never know) then have a good time, but don't assume it means anything more than the 2 of you going to a hockey game. If it leads to more and you both want it, that's nice.

If she rejects your attempt at being nice - well, then I say a big, "Who Cares" on go on with my buiness. Helps me sleep better at night.

 

[RayFinkel]

I went to an MP a few weeks back and, after washing up in their bathroom/shower room, saw that their toilet was stuck on -- ie. wouldn't shut off after flushing. On my way out, I showed it to mamasan and offered to fix it. She just said, "I call you, I call you" and proceeded to literally push me out the door. WTF? How could she call me? She didn't have my number!

I guess she didn't want a John fixing her John.

 

[alphanig]

I guess she didn't want a John fixing her John.

 

[toughb]

The client/provider relationship is playing with some of the strongest feelings a human can have. It doesn't surprise me that sooner or later someone is going to cross the line and want the natural none immediate sexual thing.

Does the provider want a relationship that will flourish and spawn a strong love. I'd say yes. But finding that person while in this line of endeavor is virtually impossible.

I've dated a dancer and it's not easy. Yet I tried because I really cared for her...

 

[toughb]

 

[tboy]

I always find this kind of posts somewhat amusing.

Do you also feel the need to remind yourself that you are just a client after seeing a therapist, going to a spa, being served a good meal at a restaurant, saying good-night to your babysitter, etc.?

Why yes you are a client, nothing more nothing less. That's why you paid to get the service that was provided to you. You'd think the exchange of money would make that clear, and that there would be no surprise or hurt feelings about the nature of the relationship.

Actually, since I am in the service industry as well, I can speak quite honestly and say: yes, there are clients, and then again, there are C L I E N T S. Some of mine tell me their whole life story, introduce me to their parents, talk to me about exes, life love and the pursuit of happiness, invite me to one of their concerts (they were a musician), etc. Some have invited me out to dinner just for the company (male and no homo!!), one or two bought me a christmas present, all kinds of things.

Yes, to some it is black and white, but to others, there are shades of grey.

I will say this: one time an sp invited me out for a drink and to see a band after our session and to this day, I regret saying no. It was an automatic response after being in this hobby for so long, it caught me totally off guard. I can't help but think to this day, that I must have hurt her feelings. Especially if she thought "oh, I'm ok to fuck but not be seen in public with"???

Oh, and one of those friends I mentioned in a previous post? The one that I trust with my pin number? She started out as a client.....

 

[genintoronto]

Of course, since we're talking of human beings interacting with each other, there are going to be shades of grey.

But my point was that if you are paying someone to provide you with a fantasy, it shouldn't exactly come as a surprise that what you are getting is a fantasy, not the real thing.

I also think that the more intimate the service provided, the more likely the provider is going to draw hard boundaries between her/his professional and personal life. It is unlikely that your therapist or care-giver is going to be OK with hanging out with you outside of the professional service they are providing. And if they do decide to see you in a non-professional capacity, they will most likely stop being your therapist or care-giver. For most people in the caring industry (whether sex workers, nurses and other caregivers, therapists, etc.) we need those boundaries in order to remain emotionally and mentally sane.

 

[BallzDeep]

Guys try to cross the line all the time on this board, just the other day a girl posted that her car battery was dead and within minutes some guy was offering to go over and boost her, wasn't what she asked but he offered anyway.

Anytime an sp has any kind of problem and they post it on here, many guys are offerering to go over and help her, they're just asking for advice and guys always think they need to go over and help her, we're just johns, nothing more. If they need a boost, they'll call CAA, not us.

These girls don't want their real life and this life intersecting.

Remember the slogan 'It's a business doing pleasure with you'

 

[1andun]

See, I don't get why/how this is hurtful.

You are paying me to provide you with a service. I give you the best service I can, within the confine of our relationship. Which means that I don't bother my clients with the mundanity of my life, I put on a smile even if I'm not feeling it, I give my clients the most pleasant and sexiest version of me, and if need be, I'll pretend to have the best time of my life even if the client is a lousy lay. That's what I am paid to do. But no, you can't pay me to be your friend or partner.

You can't at once pay for a fantasy, and then complain that you're only getting a fantasy.

Sometimes the blatant truth hurts

 

[reboot]

Fantasy and reality have a funny way of getting mixed up all the time. All you have to do is look at whatever happens to be the latest craze to see that fantasy is being presented as reality. With that in mind, it should not be all that surprising that someone takes offense when reality interferes with fantasy.

Anytime that something like interpersonal relationships is considered, the balance of fantasy and reality becomes extremely difficult to maintain. That applies to both sides of the original post, clients and service providers. A good experience necessarily leads to a desire for more. At some point, if the interaction persists, there is a shift in expectations beyond the original basis of the relationship.

While it is easy and wise to remind yourself of the reason the relationship was formed, it is not so easy to accept that it could not ever develop beyond that basis. It can. That is the problem but reality is not the same as the fantasy. While an hour or day or even week in someone's company may prove extremely satisfying, there is a great deal that is not addressed in the context of a client to service provider relationship.

In the original relationship, it is more than likely that a great deal of reality has been glossed over or ignored completely so there is an enormous divide that needs to be bridged. Both parties might feel regrets when that process gets underway. Successfully reconciling the fantasy with reality is not trivial and, honestly, not very likely to succeed.

From both perspectives, there are good reasons to simply maintain the fantasy. However, it is hardly the case that only clients end up pressing for the fantasy relationship to move into a reality based relationship. While I am certain that from the perspective of any given service provider, the impression seems to be that a lot of clients seek this, I can attest, as a formerly very active client that it is just as common for service providers to seek moving the relationship along.

The dynamics are the same too. Clients see the evolution of a relationship in terms of a withdrawal of direct payments for service (sex, to be more explicit) and service providers do the same. No one involved is immune. The potential pitfalls are massive, however, and they have been addressed in many other threads here.

From a client perspective, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that your feelings are not necessarily being reciprocated. Even if, as mentioned in this thread, a service provider acccepts "acts of kindness" it should not be assumed that the relationship is no longer professional. Most professionals accept some amount of interaction with their clients beyond merely their service. I suspect that a lot of clients fail to grasp this subtle differentiation.

The same basic guidance applies for a service provider too.

I find that it is very difficult to move between the two levels of a real friendship and a business engagement...

...we need those boundaries in order to remain emotionally and mentally sane.

Although I believe the sentiments expressed to be very reasonable, I do wonder the extent to which such a division is ultimately possible, especially as service providers in this activity.

 

[S.C. Joe]

Who cares..its their problem. You were nice enough to offer, not sure I would have even thou I have change every seal in toilets.


You need to cheer up about yourself. We might be "johns" but look around at other guys...I see some not doing so good in my eyes who are married. Maybe they are "in love" and are happy. I'm happy being a "john"..get to meet new ladies, get along great many times....so I pay her for her time, big deal.

I needed four tires mounted on my new rims I got on E-bay..cost me $60 US to have them done in 20 mins..nothing in life is free.


We all be dead soon enough, enjoy life and stop getting yourself down.

 

[lunar1]

I'm happy being a "john"..get to meet new ladies, get along great many times....so I pay her for her time, big deal.

Agreed. Further, in this capacity, I'd prefer to be referred to as a 'john' than as a 'hobbiest'. My hobby is fly tying.

 

[dreamblade]

I've established friendships with several of the Companions I've seen. One of which I talk to on a daily basis. Nothing's changed between us in the client/SP aspect, but we do hang out outside of work and enjoy each other's company. Then again people do open up to me easily. It's my knack.

I think the point is that I'm just as impressed by their civillian sides as I am with their SP personnas. These are strong, intelligent, dedicated women who do not do an easy job. But they too need to complain, speak proudly, confide, and share with someone who knows where they're coming from. There seems to have developped a sisterhood of a few ladies here on terb, but many others aren't quite comfortable with confiding in their collegues. That's where I come in and lend an ear or a shoulder.

Some of these relationships fizzled. Others were cut off abruptly for whatever the reason. Life goes on.

I don't ask for anything in return. To me every new friendship is money in the bank. If something develops from it, ok. If it doesn't, ok. I just like to help people.