O’Toole is out

[JohnLarue]

]That only means we are going to hate the new Conservative leader more.

Are you are such a fine judge of character and policy positions that you are able to state your hated for the new leader even before potential candidates are announced or communicate their views?
How can you pre-hate a person without knowing who they are?

Your pre-bias is noted as is your intellect (or lack there of)
Your opinions shall be treated as such

The Conservatives are no longer conservatives, they became an alt-right party, the old reform party with western interests only in mind.

see above

 

[lomotil]

But does he have Quebecois' best interest in mind or will he betray them by catering to Alberta's best interests?

It will be impossible to appease Alberta and Quebec simultaneously. Mulroney did it in an other era, but the sands have shifted .Harper was able to take Canada without support from Quebec.
If Quebec thinks that they can use Poilievre as a useful idiot to get more concessions from Ottawa, then they will but seriously wounded Alberta will not be amused.
The Conservatives need to figure out what century we are in and then stop cannibalizing their leaders.
Jason Kenny needs an enema filled with reality.before he is ready for a national role.

 

[JohnLarue]

Good Riddance.
Go Pierre Poilievre!
The Conservatives need a real conservative at the helm.

Erin O'toole is not an evil man and thus he should not be kicked while down
He just did not get the job done

I honestly believe him to be a good honest hard working man devoted to public service
I really hope he stays on with the party

His downfall was flip flopping on Key issues and trying to appeal to everyone.
He should have had a laser focus on exploiting the shortfalls of the moron Trudeau. No lack of material there

 

[Bbw hunter]

Define Real Conservative for me?

Seriously?
Read a book on Ronald Reagan, for starters.

 

[jcpro]

And now the Conservatives have a chance to elect a leader with a clear platform. I suspect - as I think you do - that it will not be a "red tory" platform, which I think will doom the Conservatives in Ontario and Quebec.

Since we haven't seen it yet, why rush to the conclusion? The last two years have been transformative for Canadians and the landscape has changed somewhat. Natives, climate change and gender issues will be low priorities in the upcoming months of the economic hardships and uncertainty.

 

[jalimon]

It will be impossible to appease Alberta and Quebec simultaneously. Mulroney did it in an other era, but the sands have shifted .Harper was able to take Canada without support from Quebec.

You are wrong. Harper did had just enough support in Quebec. And the Harper decade was not a good one for the sovereignty cause. He killed it. As it should be. He was instrumental for the Quebec shift out of radical leftist sovereignty.

If one guy can do what Mulroney did it's definitely Poilievre. And he knows it.

 

[K Douglas]

Good Riddance.
Go Pierre Poilievre!
The Conservatives need a real conservative at the helm.

Pollievre was my pick in the last leadership contest but he declined citing his family obligations. Wonder if he still thinks that way. O'Toole was a major disappointment for me. I think he's a decent guy but not a strong leader at all. He was simply Justin Trudeau lite. And its driven droves of Conservatives to the Purple Party (myself included).

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

Seriously?
Read a book on Ronald Reagan, for starters.

Canadian conservatism (which is virtually extinct) = British Toryism, not US Republicanism

 

[Bbw hunter]

The Conservatives (can people stop calling them the PCs; they're not the old PC Party) can only win an election by appealing to the centre, where most Canadians are. Their problem is that you can only get elected Conservative leader by appealing to the right, where most Canadians aren't. Harper clamped down pretty hard on the more extremist elements within the Party and was able to cobble together 3 election wins (2 minorities and a majority.) But as the extremists get louder and more emboldened without strong leadership to keep them under control the Conservative Party drifts farther and farther out of the main stream. The way things are going Justin Trudeau could end up being PM longer than Pierre Trudeau was if he wants to. Neither the Conservatives placing themselves on the hard right or the NDP placing themselves on the hard left are a threat to him.

Time will tell, Grasshopper.
I think 2 years of lockdown have made most people heartily sick of interventionist big government, including many nice Canadians.

 

[Valcazar]

Seriously?
Read a book on Ronald Reagan, for starters.

So you think "A Real Conservative" in Canada should adopt principles and goals similar to Reaganism?
(Assuming you even know what that is.)

 

[Bbw hunter]

Canadian conservatism (which is virtually extinct) = British Toryism, not US Republicanism

Fair enough...then have him read a book on Thatcher.

 

[Valcazar]

O'Toole was supposed to be a conservative who was "nice" enough for moderates to listen to the conservative platform and vote for it.

Interesting.
So in your view, his job was to lie and disguise the Conservative agenda because if it was presented honestly moderates wouldn't vote for it?

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

Fair enough...then have him read a book on Thatcher.

Ouch!

 

[K Douglas]

Stupid, stupid move by the Conservatives -- A-1 dumbfuckery.

Although I have not voted Conservative since the days they were the Progressive Conservatives, I will say that O'Toole was the only visible hope of getting the CPC to go back to being the Progressive Conservatives, which is where they need to be.

O'Toole didn't lose the CPC the last election, the CPC lost because the party is steeped in angry US Republican types (think MP Candace Bergen wearing a MAGA hat) whose views do not match those of Canadians at large.

The CPC scrapped Canadian-style conservatism for US-style Republicanism -- which is never going to fly Canada-wide -- during the Harper years. The CPC desperately needs Ontario and urban Canadian votes in order to win elections. As long as they are taking the social conservative path, they do not stand a snowball's chance in hell of achieving that.

The CPC is little more than a regional grievance party for Alberta and Saskatchewan these days. That's it. There is so much infighting within the party that if five CPC MPs stand up to support a policy, five more will become enraged.

Denying climate change, denying science in general, being in favour of loose gun laws and having a party full of religious whackjobs is never, ever, ever going to fly with Canadians at large.

Good luck to the Conservatives; they're sure as hell going to need it.

This right here tells me all I need to the know. That the Conservative MP's made the correct choice.

 

[JeanGary Diablo]

This right here tells me all I need to the know. That the Conservative MP's made the correct choice.

The tone-deaf Conservatives obviously don't think O'Toole is socially conservative enough to win elections.

 

[Valcazar]

Lots of differences.

1. SK is the only "red state" in Canada. AB is sort of red depending how Calgary and Edmonton are going to vote in any given election.
2. Canada is far more urban than the US and urban areas vote centre or left of centre.
3. Traditionally, small town Quebec votes differently than small town English Canada and doesn't vote CPC.
4. No senate.
5. No counter-ideology of "Jesus, the flag, anti-welfare" in Canada. No creation myth about the constitution and "God chose America". Lots of immigrants in melting pot cities who just want stability and prosperity.

1. More importantly, provinces aren't relevant to being elected federally in the same way they are in the US. With no "winner take all" aspect like the Electoral College, provinces aren't relevant as such.
2. Yes. There is also less malapportionment between the urban and rural areas, so the latter aren't over-weighted quite as much.
3. Also true, but I think this is somewhat less relevant as it once was. That said, the regional culture vote aspects in Quebec mean even if rural Quebec started wanting similar policies, there is difficulty making inroads there as a federal party.
4. HUGE difference that I don't think people understand. (Also no President. Both of those are veto points that change the structure of the system.)
5. The core mythology is different, agreed.

 

[Bbw hunter]

Pollievre was my pick in the last leadership contest but he declined citing his family obligations. Wonder if he still thinks that way. O'Toole was a major disappointment for me. I think he's a decent guy but not a strong leader at all. He was simply Justin Trudeau lite. And its driven droves of Conservatives to the Purple Party (myself included).

That was one of my issues with Error; he was trying to be like Justin.
At least he kept his shirt on when he marched in the Pride Parade, unlike JT.
Purple Party is a cool name but I think you mean The People's Party, headed by Maxime Bernier?

 

[mandrill]

Since we haven't seen it yet, why rush to the conclusion? The last two years have been transformative for Canadians and the landscape has changed somewhat. Natives, climate change and gender issues will be low priorities in the upcoming months of the economic hardships and uncertainty.

They were always NON priorities for everyone except Justin himself.

Justin wins because he's an idiot who runs against Tories. And Ontario despises Tories more than it despises idiots. Understand that and you understand Canadian national politics.

 

[jcpro]

The Conservatives (can people stop calling them the PCs; they're not the old PC Party) can only win an election by appealing to the centre, where most Canadians are. Their problem is that you can only get elected Conservative leader by appealing to the right, where most Canadians aren't. Harper clamped down pretty hard on the more extremist elements within the Party and was able to cobble together 3 election wins (2 minorities and a majority.) But as the extremists get louder and more emboldened without strong leadership to keep them under control the Conservative Party drifts farther and farther out of the main stream. The way things are going Justin Trudeau could end up being PM longer than Pierre Trudeau was if he wants to. Neither the Conservatives placing themselves on the hard right or the NDP placing themselves on the hard left are a threat to him.

Harper didn't clamp down on the "extremists". The party did during the convention in Montreal and before on the riding association level. The agenda for what became the Harper's CPC was not set by Harper, but was established before hand. In my own association the French language issue popped up and was promptly voted down while the 3E Senate was confirmed. Harper, once elected, like EVERY Canadian party leader enforced the party discipline ruthlessly- which is necessary in our system of government and applies as much to Harper, Chretien or Trudeaus.

 

[Valcazar]

The lefties keep forgetting that Trump, beside his unique style, actually ran on solid conservative issues that were important to the voters.

Such as?
What were those conservative issues?

I do agree that O'Toole - trying to juggle multiple factions in his party - never really established his own identity.

The question we are debating is whether or not that move to a Bernier or an O'Leary or a Pollivere is the next move, or someone with better media/leadership skills but the same Red Tory instincts as O'Toole?

I feel we aren't going to get a "more effective O'Toole" but are going to go off in a direction more guided by the GOP approach.
I could be wrong, I am not a member of the Party and I don't have an ear to the ground there.