No Fly Zone

[fuji]

If we are providing arms and air support for the rebels, and they begin to engage in massacre, I think we could stop providing arms and air support. I'm not convinced it needs to go that way, though I can see that it COULD go that way. From where I sit if we do nothing it IS going to be a blood bath. If we do something it MIGHT be a blood bath--and we'll likely end up with someone we can work with, as opposed to Gadaffi.

If boots on the ground are actually needed I think they should be Arab boots, maybe a joint effort by the armies of several Arab league countries, with air support provided by the West. I know it's far fetched. There's too much political animosity to make it happen, but if it could be made to happen, it would be the right answer.

 

[hinz]

Well the UN say no No Fly zone. Can anyone say Rwanda?

Yes and No.

Libya has the potential to become another Rwanda, even Somalia but unlike Rwanda, Libya has oil and does not have former colonial masters who speak French.

Plus regrettably, those Semites in North Africa are being taken seriously compared to the Blacks in the rest of the continent. Needless to say, it's hard to see UN to let Libya degenerate into ethnic cleansing like those in Rwanda.

 

[Rockslinger]

The rebels surrender to NATO, par example, and become our prisoners and responsibility -

NO! NO! NO! I don't want any responsibility for these guys. Can you imagine if one of them breaks his fingernail? The Arab press and Al Qaeda will be all over us.

 

[Rockslinger]

Maybe the rebels have an exit plan like getting on a boat and heading for Canada (works for the Tamils).

 

[hinz]

NO! NO! NO! I don't want any responsibility for these guys. Can you imagine if one of them breaks his fingernail? The Arab press and Al Qaeda will be all over us.

Agree. That's the LAST THING NATO really wants.

Let those in that neighborhood, be Egyptians, Turks, Saudis be the leaders and help those rebels, with the rest of the world provide logistic and technical support. Nothing more, nothing less to help the Arabs help themselves.

That being said, NATO should monitor the situation and have contingency plan, should the Arabs eventually plead us for help....of course privately outside the press lens.

BTW, the Al-Qaidas are pretty much on the sideline and like everybody else are caught by surprise. Not going to be shocked they have a hard time to take credit, let alone co-op/usurp the movements in that region when their reputations among the moderate Arabs are not that good.

 

[hinz]

Maybe the rebels have an exit plan like getting on a boat and heading for Canada (works for the Tamils).

Doubtful since I do not recall there are significant Libyans in Canada who could do the lobbying, like those Tamils.

 

[seth gecko]

France has recognized the rebels as the official gov't of Libya.

 

[hinz]

France has recognized the rebels as the official gov't of Libya.

Sure they could recognize whatever they want as long as they are not obligated to deploy the Foreign Legionnaire or Commando Hubert or GIGN for action.

BTW, didn't France return to the membership in 2009 after their "hiatus" since 1966? I wonder why?

 

[Rockslinger]

Doubtful since I do not recall there are significant Libyans in Canada who could do the lobbying, like those Tamils.

There weren't always 500 million Tamils in Canada. I think the first ones arrived by boat as refugees from of all places --- Germany.

 

[hinz]

There weren't always 500 million Tamils in Canada. I think the first ones arrived by boat as refugees from of all places --- Germany.

C'mon Rock, there are only 300 million Americans and 33 million Canadians in North America.

 

[landscaper]

according to reports today the rebels are going to be in for a few hard days, the Libyan army( the parts that are answering to a Gadhaffii anyway) have finally mobilized and are moving on the rebel main force in an oil town.

The rebels are complaining that they are outgunned and don't have anything that will stop a tank or an aircraft. Perhaps they should have thought about those details prior to starting a fight.

 

[rld]

according to reports today the rebels are going to be in for a few hard days, the Libyan army( the parts that are answering to a Gadhaffii anyway) have finally mobilized and are moving on the rebel main force in an oil town.

The rebels are complaining that they are outgunned and don't have anything that will stop a tank or an aircraft. Perhaps they should have thought about those details prior to starting a fight.

It was a calculated political risk. The time to arm them is now. "The tree of Liberty..."

 

[landscaper]

I just watched an Obama press conference, on energy he was asked how far he would go to oust Gahdaffi, he talked around the question did not say anything beyond we are consulting with our allies in NATO, The UN , Africa and the Middle East...... he also brought up the ICC in The Hauge as something that the Colonol should be warry of. Interesting that seeing as the US does not recognize the courts authority over Americans.......

 

[Rockslinger]

The time to arm them is now.

We armed the Mujahideen in Afghanistan in the 1980's and look what followed. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. So far, I think the West is saying and doing all the right things.

 

[landscaper]

At this point arming the rebels is not going to help beyond possibly putting some advanced weapons into the field that could very well disappear. The time constraints will not allow anykind of training in order to use the weapons properly so you would have ot include people to actually use them or supervise their use on the ground... i don't know you could call them military advisors.... but that has already been done once and it did not workout that well.

Col Gadhaffi or his advisors have realized that finishing this fast is the only way to get out of it without outside interfearance. Finish the rebellion try and hang the rebels and carry on business as before. Most of Europe will not disagree with him, and I don't think Obama has the nerve to start another war.

 

[Rockslinger]

Col Gadhaffi or his advisors have realized that finishing this fast is the only way to get out of it without outside interfearance. Finish the rebellion try and hang the rebels and carry on business as before.

He is following the "Saddam Script" to the letter.

 

[hinz]

I don't think Obama has the nerve to start another war.

Could very well be but I get the feeling Obama's lack of concrete action is like admitting the mistake he made in Egypt, namely stabbing loyal ally, albeit stubborn Hosni back at ease.

Maybe Obama freaks out big time and face the reality when the Arab Street got emboldened and try to replicate what happened in Tahir Square in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, two of the most important US Ally and oil producers.

 

[danmand]

Could very well be but I get the feeling Obama's lack of concrete action is like admitting the mistake he made in Egypt, namely stabbing loyal ally, albeit stubborn Hosni back at ease.

Maybe Obama freaks out big time and face the reality when the Arab Street got emboldened and try to replicate what happened in Tahir Square in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia, two of the most important US Ally and oil producers.

Face the fact that the US is an impotent bystanter to the uprisings in the arab world. Viagra or Cialis would be the only hope.

 

[onthebottom]

Face the fact that the US is an impotent bystanter to the uprisings in the arab world. Viagra or Cialis would be the only hope.

What would you recommend we do?

OTB

 

[hinz]

Face the fact that the US is an impotent bystanter to the uprisings in the arab world. Viagra or Cialis would be the only hope.

LOL, how come you omit Levitra? Never heard that one in the commercial?

BTW, it's a perfect storm of the successive American administrations own making, starting...

-Dubya lame/BS excuse, namely spread democracy in that neighborhood when he wanted to enter Iraq to eliminate that SOB and his two sons, and split the Iraqi oil between the Big Oils.

-Obama hype up unrealistic expectation, giving false hope in the same neighborhood by his second to none oratory skills. Not going to be surprised those Arabs who were born after 1970s felt betrayed or deceived by Obama when they rebel and demand for regime change, yet Obama seems to have cold turkey on the whole Arab Spring movement and start backtracking.

Worse, both presidents continue to endorse misguided Ethanol policies, say produced from corn, not sugar crane or switch grass by using subsidies to buy votes.

-Last but not the least, the side effect of the QE 1 & 2, maybe soon to be 3 implemented by the Fed under Bernanke to save the US economy. The unintended consequences are excessive USD flooding overseas, emerging markets in particular to create asset bubbles of all kinds and more importantly additional ammo for gigantic carry trade.

Needless to say, the end game is going to be ugly.