Nightmare in Canada - a Harper Majority

[Malibook]

Harper is running a horrible campaign.
Making promises that might happen in several years if the budget is balanced is a stupid idea.
He deserves to lose the election.

 

[xssive]

Harper's arrogance is already coming to the surface. When he first started as PM he was humble and somewhat cooperative knowing he had a minority government that could be toppled. In the last 18 months there's been a noticeable shift in the way he operates, probably because he knows the Liberals and Ignatieff are toothless and without a candidate that has the leadership skills and charisma to challenge. The test was proroguing parliament. When he got away with that, it emboldened him to do as he pleased within a minority situation.

Examples of Arrogance:
Proroguing Parliament so that they couldn't debate Canada's treatment of prisoners in Afghanistan.
Dismissing a minister's contempt of parliament as nothing but a procedural matter.
Purchasing the F-35 fighter without any comparable shopping. Then forcing civil servants (ie. the military) to defend the decision.
Spending $1B for the G20 and then deciding that Toronto can just take it up the ass.

The list goes on. And will get worse if he achieves a majority government. Plus Harper is making no promises for now, all his promises kick in 3-4 yrs down the road when it's time for another election. Perfect! He makes these promises, gives them to you 4 yrs later and if he doesn't he'll offer them up next time. Nothing like a gift that you can give twice! All that being said, I am not a big fan of Ignatieff and the Libs. He is a horrible leader (no matter how schooled he is), he just doesn't know how to get ahead of an issue, always plays the obvious, speaks in a way that doesn't connect to the average Joe, and doesn't strategize only reacts. Not good leadership. Layton? Forget it. We finally got rid of our socialist municipal government, no point in getting one federally. The best outcome is a Conservative minority government. That way there are checks and balances in place to keep Harper from getting too crazy with his religious right-wing ideas, yet signal to the world that we are still good for business.

 

[maverick]

this election is truly a waste on money in harper's opinion.

we should just crown him king for life...

then everyday can be photops of king steven...

 

[CapitalGuy]

A Harper majority sounds like a dream come true. Although there would unfortunately not be any radical changes, he would continue to improve this fine nation by undoing more of the damage Comrade Trudeau did during his tenure(s), driving us into relative poverty. Vote Conservative - save Canada!!!

 

[blackrock13]

A Harper majority sounds like a dream come true. Although there would unfortunately not be any radical changes, he would continue to improve this fine nation by undoing more of the damage Comrade Trudeau did during his tenure(s), driving us into relative poverty. Vote Conservative - save Canada!!!

How big is your bumper. THat jiust won't fit on any bumper stricker I've seen.

Long on rhetoric short on facts.

As pointed out before, Trudeau was PM through 2 recession and governments need to spend to keep things going.

How did Mulroney handle the deficit and debt? It climbed even higher.

Who balanced the budget and gave the country a surplus? It wasn't a Conservative government.

 

[JustSex]

Making promises that might happen in several years if the budget is balanced is a stupid idea.

Actually I think it is brilliant. Harper started running a deficit as soon as he took power before the latest recession and has shown no real interest in fiscal responsibility. This tact in campaign promises is the equivalent of: "I will remove personal income tax and give every citizen $100,000 ....... when pigs fly out my ass !"

Listening to the campaign promises I realize that the cost of an election isn't $300 million to hold it - it's the billions of dollars in campaign promises made to get elected.

 

[blackrock13]

Actually I think it is brilliant. Harper started running a deficit as soon as he took power before the latest recession and has shown no real interest in fiscal responsibility. This tact in campaign promises is the equivalent of: "I will remove personal income tax and give every citizen $100,000 ....... when pigs fly out my ass !"

Listening to the campaign promises I realize that the cost of an election isn't $300 million to hold it - it's the billions of dollars in campaign promises made to get elected.

Actually a lot of people aren't buying it and seeing it for what it's worth.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...w-wrinkle-to-election-promises-119432234.html

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/cityn...n-2015-opposition-says-don-t-hold-your-breath

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/harpers-sp...le-election-promises-20110407-143443-766.html

 

[furt]

The GST took effect in January 1991 (it replaced a hidden 13.5% Manufacturers Sales Tax.) the recession in ended in March 1991. How could the GST which was only introduced in Jan. 1991 contribute "massively" as you put it to the "severity and extent of the recession of the early 90's' when the recession ending in March 1991? The recession in the early 1990's was lasted 8 months. Some factors contributing to the economic slowdown leading to the 1990 recession included a slowdown in the US economy, the restrictive monetary policy of the BANK OF CANADA which was designed to fight INFLATION, and finally, the constraints on fiscal policy.

Over the balance of the 1990's it was the introduction of the GST and NAFTA that allowed the Chretien liberals to balance the federal books. I am no big fan of Mulroney but he did finally bring forth some long term policies that future governments and the Canadian economy have benefited from.

Unemployment was extremely high in Canada long after the "end" of the recession (ie after the economy actually stopped shrinking). In fact one of KIm Campell's biggest blunders in the 1993 election was to tell Canadaians that unemployment would not return to its pre recession (1990) levels for many years after that . She was rewarded with two seats for this, neither of which was her own. You originally said that the GST was introduced to raise revenue. It probably was, but MUldoon and the tories lied about it, just as they lied about everything else. Are you saying then, that this massive, extremely regressive tax increase DID NOT contribute to unemployment? I thought you right wingers thought that taxes inhibited, not stimulated the economy.

The slowdown in the US economy in the early 90's was much milder than here. The Governor of the Bank of Canada was appointed by Muldoon who would have, or should have fired him, if he did anything Muldoon wasn't completely happy with. Besides there is no reason to believe that Muldoon wasn't anything but pleased with the Bank's disastrous policies or that they were any different from his own. PS there wasn't any inflation to fight; the economy was prostrate. High interest rates if anything would have contibuted to inflation by vastly increasing the cost of borrowing. (also the deficit, but that's another story)

Since you haven't addressed any of my other points, I presume you accept them, or at least offer no defence: ie Muldoon vastly increased the debt and deficit; Muldoon and Harper acted chummy until the former's stink simply overwhelmed the latter's stomach; the Canadian people were hoodwinked by the tories about the GSt, etc , etc,.
\
The massive debt actually started during WW 2, which, guess what ?, ushered in the greatest period of prosperity in the history of the western world. ( that debt also resulted in a remarkable achievement, the defeat of naziism... do you think it was worth it?) The great and the good (right wing division) struggled mightily to keep the debt low during that economic apogee known as the Great Depression . The tea partiers are Hoovers for our time; Harper is an R. B. Bennett for our time. (wait that's unfair- to Bennett!).

There is no evidence whatsoever for your last fabriucation that the GST or free trade helped Martin. He would have been helped far more by vastly more progessive income tax or a wealth tax. Are you in favour of those?

 

[5hummer]

A Harper majority sounds like a dream come true. Although there would unfortunately not be any radical changes, he would continue to improve this fine nation by undoing more of the damage Comrade Trudeau did during his tenure(s), driving us into relative poverty. Vote Conservative - save Canada!!!

Vote Conservative - Americanize Canada !!!

 

[alb]

Unemployment was extremely high in Canada long after the "end" of the recession (ie after the economy actually stopped shrinking). In fact one of KIm Campell's biggest blunders in the 1993 election was to tell Canadaians that unemployment would not return to its pre recession (1990) levels for many years after that . She was rewarded with two seats for this, neither of which was her own. You originally said that the GST was introduced to raise revenue. It probably was, but MUldoon and the tories lied about it, just as they lied about everything else. Are you saying then, that this massive, extremely regressive tax increase DID NOT contribute to unemployment? I thought you right wingers thought that taxes inhibited, not stimulated the economy.

The slowdown in the US economy in the early 90's was much milder than here. The Governor of the Bank of Canada was appointed by Muldoon who would have, or should have fired him, if he did anything Muldoon wasn't completely happy with. Besides there is no reason to believe that Muldoon wasn't anything but pleased with the Bank's disastrous policies or that they were any different from his own. PS there wasn't any inflation to fight; the economy was prostrate. High interest rates if anything would have contibuted to inflation by vastly increasing the cost of borrowing. (also the deficit, but that's another story)

Since you haven't addressed any of my other points, I presume you accept them, or at least offer no defence: ie Muldoon vastly increased the debt and deficit; Muldoon and Harper acted chummy until the former's stink simply overwhelmed the latter's stomach; the Canadian people were hoodwinked by the tories about the GSt, etc , etc,.
\
The massive debt actually started during WW 2, which, guess what ?, ushered in the greatest period of prosperity in the history of the western world. ( that debt also resulted in a remarkable achievement, the defeat of naziism... do you think it was worth it?) The great and the good (right wing division) struggled mightily to keep the debt low during that economic apogee known as the Great Depression . The tea partiers are Hoovers for our time; Harper is an R. B. Bennett for our time. (wait that's unfair- to Bennett!).

There is no evidence whatsoever for your last fabriucation that the GST or free trade helped Martin. He would have been helped far more by vastly more progessive income tax or a wealth tax. Are you in favour of those?

I wish I had the amount of time you have on your hands. Between you and some other people on this board not sure where you find the time. I don't have the time to go over each of your out to lunch points so please don't get the impression that I am in favour of any of the points you raised by not responding to them as that is not the case.

However, to your last point quickly to completely disregard that the liberals were not helped by the introductions of the GST is rediculous. If that were the case then why didn't Chretian's killed the GST like he promosed in the 1993 election. I will tell you why because they realized that it was a cash cow for them so they kept it. NAFTA has been a huge economic success for Canada!

 

[furt]

I am sorry you have so little time on yours. Alll your posts show it, regrettably.
The liberals were wrong not to get rid of the GST. How does that help your argument?

 

[CapitalGuy]

Vote Conservative - Americanize Canada !!!

Partisan rhetoric with no basis in fact.

 

[CapitalGuy]

How big is your bumper. THat jiust won't fit on any bumper stricker I've seen.

Long on rhetoric short on facts.

As pointed out before, Trudeau was PM through 2 recession and governments need to spend to keep things going.

How did Mulroney handle the deficit and debt? It climbed even higher.

Who balanced the budget and gave the country a surplus? It wasn't a Conservative government.

Trudeau turned a resource-rich nation with a small population into a socialist second-world country. We should be as rich as Japan or Switzerland, instead we are scraping by to pay for Trudeau's commie follies. I hope he's burning hot down there, the fucker.

 

[fuji]

Trudeau turned a resource-rich nation with a small population into a socialist second-world country. We should be as rich as Japan or Switzerland, instead we are scraping by to pay for Trudeau's commie follies. I hope he's burning hot down there, the fucker.

I'm just curious--do you have reasons for the things you think? It doesn't seem to me that you actually have reasons for your beliefs. You seem to think these sorts of things because of your ideology, despite the facts.

Perhaps you can explain, then, why, since 1968, Canada has experienced a much higher rate of growth than Switzerland has? Alternately, given that GDP per capita in Canada and Japan are roughly the same--in other words, we are as rich as Japan--perhaps you can explain what you mean when you say we should be what we already are?

Your assertion completely contradicts observed reality, which is why I am asking whether you have reasons--any reasons--for the things you think.

 

[blackrock13]

Trudeau turned a resource-rich nation with a small population into a socialist second-world country. We should be as rich as Japan or Switzerland, instead we are scraping by to pay for Trudeau's commie follies. I hope he's burning hot down there, the fucker.

A definition of second tier social nation escapes me again. Name a first tier socialist nation. As I pointed out early in another post, many indices for a quality or standard of life regularly have 4 of the top 10 countries as socialist countries. Canada pops on and off the various lists, but regularly claim a top 15 spot. Canada's bigger cities are also top rated on the world scene. Our socialist leaning tendencies must be doing something right. Eugene Forsey, you may be too young to know who he is, sometime back said all of Canada parties are socialist parties but some are obviously more than others.

 

[CapitalGuy]

Fairly common knowledge (except among Liberal fanbois) that Trudeau fucked up our otherwise fine country and that we've been digging our way out ever since he rode off. Books have been written on it. A quick search pulls up this guys' diatribe on it. Lots more out there. But if you love him, no point seeking the truth. Move to Montreal and you can re-live the glory days by re-electing his PC fucktard boy.

http://www.tpg1.com/protest/federal/trud/various_articles.html

 

[blackrock13]

Fairly common knowledge (except among Liberal fanbois) that Trudeau fucked up our otherwise fine country and that we've been digging our way out ever since he rode off. Books have been written on it. A quick search pulls up this guys' diatribe on it. Lots more out there. But if you love him, no point seeking the truth. Move to Montreal and you can re-live the glory days by re-electing his PC fucktard boy.

http://www.tpg1.com/protest/federal/trud/various_articles.html

Margolis made some good points but Worthington not so much.

Margolis that Canada was a very wealthy country, but not long before that I can remember a time when friends and family had to scrap enough money to pay for food OR pay a doctor for treatment. Eric didn't say anything about the Trudeau's government had to negotiate those two serious recessions. I wonder why.

 

[oldjones]

Don't I recall that the wage and price controls Trudeau slew the Inflation Dragone with were originally Tory proposals. They're pols; party labels mean nothing.

Now imagine a Prime Minister telling us the best and most important reason we should give him his very first majority—one he has yet to earn—is because another party was bad, and its present leader was once a Harvard prof.

Now there speaks a man of confidence and vision. And doesn't it say volumes about his party.

 

[blackrock13]

Don't I recall that the wage and price controls Trudeau slew the Inflation Dragone with were originally Tory proposals. They're pols; party labels mean nothing.

Now imagine a Prime Minister telling us the best and most important reason we should give him his very first majority—one he has yet to earn—is because another party was bad, and its present leader was once a Harvard prof.

Now there speaks a man of confidence and vision. And doesn't it say volumes about his party.

Hmmm!

 

[fuji]

Fairly common knowledge (except among Liberal fanbois) that Trudeau fucked up our otherwise fine country and that we've been digging our way out ever since he rode off.

Small problem. As I pointed out the economic data does not support this view. If you were correct you would expect to see a decline in Canada's GDP growth but that didn't happen. You mentioned Switzerland as an example to aspire to and I pointed out that we've grown faster than they have. You mentioned Japan as a nation that is supposedly richer, but I've pointed out that we have essentially the same per capita GDP they do.

So the data, the facts, they do not support your viewpoint.

The ONLY thing supporting your viewpoint is your ideology, and it appears that when your ideology diverges from reality you stick with the ideology and abandon reality.