Nightmare in Canada - a Harper Majority

[Ridgeman08]

I hadn't previously associated "higher intelligence" with "creationism", but knock yourself out.

Whatever. It sounded like you were insinuating such a leap, so I thought maybe I'd point that out.

Regardless, its all immaterial anyway.

Here's my prediction for the upcoming election:

Either the Cons will win another minority. Or maybe a majority. Doesn't really matter.

Whatever ruling party gets in will steal more of our money and give it to their buddies. Again doesn't matter which one.

The 4 parties (Greens don't count- no seats) will go on bickering and arguing amongst themselves about mostly mundane BS in order to shield themselves from having to deal with real issues.

In other words.... Same old, same old.

 

[Brill]

It always makes me laugh when I hear the media say Harper is really a libertarian maybe fiscally but socially he's far more authoritarian than any of the other leaders. I think the only true libertarian in the conservative party is Maxime Bernier.

Libertarians are fed up with Harper and his bailout of GM, Maxime supported it as well.

They want legal marijuana as well as other areas that the government is authoritarian on.

 

[tegR]

For $30 billion I would rather have some power-projection like an Iwo Jima or Tarawa class light carrier/MEU transport with a compliment of a second-hand (and retired so DIRT cheap) used harriers or cobras mixed with our existing transport choppers. The would could transport, land and support our recognized world-class infantry in a self-contained battalion-strength (~3000) force to trouble spots. It would allow us the capability to intervene in small peacekeeping or CDN-citizen-extraction situations without begging and borrowing (and securing the permission and assistance) of the USA.

Failing that, if we MUST buy fighter jets (because we are convinced that we are not "sovereign" enough without first-rate home-airspace shoot-down capability) then I don't see any reason why we need 5th-gen stealth fighter-bombers... Saudi Arabia just completed a military purchase from the US buying out massive quantities of 4th-gen fighters, tanks and choppers for disposal-cheap prices because the US treats its 4th gen stuff as "surplus."

By 4th Gen we are talking F-15 strike eagles, F-16 falcons, F-18 hornets (modern "E" type), apache and cobra fast-attacks, blackhawks in transport and gunship configuration + full modern ground units like the Bradley IFVs and Abrams tanks... basically all the ridiculously over-capable hardware that turns US/NATO soldiers into literal Gods of War against any realistically conceivable enemy.

If any enemy of Canada ever has sufficient technology and capability to punch his bombers past last-gen F-15 Eagles in interceptor setup he is going to be waaaay out of our league to take on alone, and whether or not the more expensive F-35's take more of the enemy planes with them will not change that such an enemy WILL put ordinance on our soil... or the fact that at that point we will have to hide behind NATOs skirts anyway.

Red Dawn fantasy aside, an F-15 is just as good (if not better - its significantly faster) for spanking an arctic spy plane or cutting down a hijacked airliner or suitably intimidating a leaky rust bucket full of illegal migrants as an F-35 - and at probably less than half the cost.

I'm 110% for a usefully strong and capable military but we should be more intelligent and realistic about it.

Mr. Harper - Flying F-35s will I suppose add at least a full inch to the national penis... but against the 10-inch monster schlong of the F-22 (Not for Export) what is the point of competing even if you care?

 

[2canchew]

I think we should all calm down and take a big chill -- we are FAR from certain that the Conservatives will win that majority government. Even though the latest poll indicates that they have widened the lead (this morning's poll indicated that they're overall popularity level is at 42%), that same poll indicated that this was primarily due to an increase in popularity in BC. The Liberals meanwhile have held steady in their support in BC, increased support in Ontario, and lost ground in Quebec. Given the fact that ridings as they are currently in existence does not necessarily reflect the areas with the highest density of population, it is still perfectly conceivable that the increase in support will not translate in any additional seats for the Conservatives.

It's also worth pointing out that these polls are highly volatile, with any number of people potentially changing their minds. I would suspect that there are probably a very high number of undecided voters, and there is always the question of voter turnout.

All that in mind, if I may be so bold, here is my prediction for the likely outcome of this election:

(1) The Conservatives will currently maintain all seats they currently hold in the Prairie provinces and in BC (maybe gaining one or 2 additional seats in BC). They may also gain or lose a seat in Ontario.

(2) The Liberals will likely maintain the majority of seats in Ontario and will likely do well in the Atlantic provinces

(3) The Bloc will of course take the majority of seats from Quebec

(4) The NDP will pick up a seat here or there from whatever riding is left over.

Final result: another Conservative minority government! In other words, the same result as what we had BEFORE the election!

So why have one and waste more money. I'm sure that Harper is laughing quietly to himself.

 

[xssive]

For $30 billion I would rather have some power-projection like an Iwo Jima or Tarawa class light carrier/MEU transport with a compliment of a second-hand (and retired so DIRT cheap) used harriers or cobras mixed with our existing transport choppers. The would could transport, land and support our recognized world-class infantry in a self-contained battalion-strength (~3000) force to trouble spots. It would allow us the capability to intervene in small peacekeeping or CDN-citizen-extraction situations without begging and borrowing (and securing the permission and assistance) of the USA.

Failing that, if we MUST buy fighter jets (because we are convinced that we are not "sovereign" enough without first-rate home-airspace shoot-down capability) then I don't see any reason why we need 5th-gen stealth fighter-bombers... Saudi Arabia just completed a military purchase from the US buying out massive quantities of 4th-gen fighters, tanks and choppers for disposal-cheap prices because the US treats its 4th gen stuff as "surplus."

By 4th Gen we are talking F-15 strike eagles, F-16 falcons, F-18 hornets (modern "E" type), apache and cobra fast-attacks, blackhawks in transport and gunship configuration + full modern ground units like the Bradley IFVs and Abrams tanks... basically all the ridiculously over-capable hardware that turns US/NATO soldiers into literal Gods of War against any realistically conceivable enemy.

If any enemy of Canada ever has sufficient technology and capability to punch his bombers past last-gen F-15 Eagles in interceptor setup he is going to be waaaay out of our league to take on alone, and whether or not the more expensive F-35's take more of the enemy planes with them will not change that such an enemy WILL put ordinance on our soil... or the fact that at that point we will have to hide behind NATOs skirts anyway.

Red Dawn fantasy aside, an F-15 is just as good (if not better - its significantly faster) for spanking an arctic spy plane or cutting down a hijacked airliner or suitably intimidating a leaky rust bucket full of illegal migrants as an F-35 - and at probably less than half the cost.

I'm 110% for a usefully strong and capable military but we should be more intelligent and realistic about it.

Mr. Harper - Flying F-35s will I suppose add at least a full inch to the national penis... but against the 10-inch monster schlong of the F-22 (Not for Export) what is the point of competing even if you care?

Totally agree. But I think there's more to the F-35 purchase than just Harper wanting a bigger penis. There's something really fishy about how this deal just appeared and was done. For one, when we purchased the CF-18s back in 1982 one of the reasons was that the requirement was for a double engined plane because of the remote distances in Canada's north. Now it's okay? There are several planes out there that will do the job and cheaper without going second hand, the F-15 Eagle being one, also the F/A-18E Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale and Eurofighter. All of these can be interceptors and attack planes. But none were seriously considered.

There is also another major plane purchase coming due soon and that is the replacement for our Aurora patrol planes. There are not as many options for this type of plane, the U.S. is going with the Boeing P-8 Poseidon (based on the Boeing 737) and the Harper government will probably announce that they will too. Bombardier is developing a twin engine plane (called the C-Series) that will be a better more efficient and modern airframe that can be turned into a patrol plane. Given all the money that we've given Bombardier you'd think that would be a consideration, develop our own and then sell it to compete with the P-8 and hopefully make some money for Canada. No dice. Not even a consideration. Like in America, nowadays big companies like Lockheed and Boeing scoop up all our retiring high ranking military officers and make them lobbyists. When our defence department guys are trying to figure out what they need, and they are being lobbied by their old superior/boss/general what do you think they will do? Country first?

 

[fuji]

For $30 billion I would rather have some power-projection like an Iwo Jima or Tarawa class light carrier/MEU transport with a compliment of a second-hand (and retired so DIRT cheap) used harriers or cobras mixed with our existing transport choppers. The would could transport, land and support our recognized world-class infantry in a self-contained battalion-strength (~3000) force to trouble spots. It would allow us the capability to intervene in small peacekeeping or CDN-citizen-extraction situations without begging and borrowing (and securing the permission and assistance) of the USA.

Failing that, if we MUST buy fighter jets (because we are convinced that we are not "sovereign" enough without first-rate home-airspace shoot-down capability) then I don't see any reason why we need 5th-gen stealth fighter-bombers... Saudi Arabia just completed a military purchase from the US buying out massive quantities of 4th-gen fighters, tanks and choppers for disposal-cheap prices because the US treats its 4th gen stuff as "surplus."

By 4th Gen we are talking F-15 strike eagles, F-16 falcons, F-18 hornets (modern "E" type), apache and cobra fast-attacks, blackhawks in transport and gunship configuration + full modern ground units like the Bradley IFVs and Abrams tanks... basically all the ridiculously over-capable hardware that turns US/NATO soldiers into literal Gods of War against any realistically conceivable enemy.

If any enemy of Canada ever has sufficient technology and capability to punch his bombers past last-gen F-15 Eagles in interceptor setup he is going to be waaaay out of our league to take on alone, and whether or not the more expensive F-35's take more of the enemy planes with them will not change that such an enemy WILL put ordinance on our soil... or the fact that at that point we will have to hide behind NATOs skirts anyway.

Red Dawn fantasy aside, an F-15 is just as good (if not better - its significantly faster) for spanking an arctic spy plane or cutting down a hijacked airliner or suitably intimidating a leaky rust bucket full of illegal migrants as an F-35 - and at probably less than half the cost.

I'm 110% for a usefully strong and capable military but we should be more intelligent and realistic about it.

Mr. Harper - Flying F-35s will I suppose add at least a full inch to the national penis... but against the 10-inch monster schlong of the F-22 (Not for Export) what is the point of competing even if you care?

Exactly. We just don't need stealth jets. In fact they're counter-productive. The number one use of an arctic capable fighter is to let anybody who strays into our airspace know that we're there watching them. It's actually easier to do that when they can see you on radar.

 

[nottyboi]

Exactly. We just don't need stealth jets. In fact they're counter-productive. The number one use of an arctic capable fighter is to let anybody who strays into our airspace know that we're there watching them. It's actually easier to do that when they can see you on radar.

Getting the latest spec F-15 will be a great idea. There is still a huge fleet of them, so updates will be coming for at least 30 years more. In terms of offsets, F-15 is made by Boeing so getting 150% in industrial offsets from Boeing will be a piece of cake.

 

[alb]

You are the prime example of history ignored will repeat itself. I often wonder if Harper in a majority government will follow his hero Brian Mulroney into a historic spending spree.

So you find these $1 billion programs more offensive then the $1.1 billion dollar G-20 photo op that closed down Toronto and benefited no one ?

Or that you glance over the $16 billion closed contract non-debated decision for the purchase of F-35 Raptors that the independent PBO (non-partisan budget watch dog) that has publish a report estimating the true cost at $30 billion. (That scary tactic was favored by Mulrony when he ran a muck with the largest deficit spending in history)

Sorry - I want a minority government for just this reason. I don't trust either of them.

Conservative gov't spending spree under Mulroney?? Get your facts straight. The spending spree happened well before Mulroney as it happened under Trudeau.

Lets remember it was Brian Mulroney who brought in the much dreaded GST in order to combat the massive debt left by the Trudeau liberals. Mulroney also governed during a recession so gov't revenues were down. It was through this and other policies (ie Free Trade) that the Chretian government acutally benefited from when the ecomony rebounded. One of Chretian's platforms was the abolish the GST when elected something which he never did because it brought in the revenue the government needed inorder to balance the books.

Harper is no fan or friend of Mulroney! The two don't speak to each other particularily after the Schrieber inquiry. Lets remember Harper was a member of the Reform Party which desimated the federal PC's.

 

[Ridgeman08]

Conservative gov`t spending spree under Mulroney?? Get your facts straight. The spending spree happened well before Mulroney as it happened under Trudeau.

Lets remember it was Brian Mulroney who brought in the much dreaded GST in order to combat the massive debt left by the Trudeau liberals. Mulroney also governed during a recession so gov`t revenues were down. It was through this and other policies (ie Free Trade) that the Chretian government acutally benefited from when the ecomony rebounded. One of Chretian`s platforms was the abolish the GST when elected something which he never did because it brought in the revenue the government needed inorder to balance the books.

Harper is no fan or friend of Mulroney! The two don`t speak to each other particularily after the Schrieber inquiry. Lets remember Harper was a member of the Reform Party which desimated the federal PC`s.

Exactly!

https://terb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...per-Majority&p=3519802&viewfull=1#post3519802

 

[nottyboi]

Conservative gov't spending spree under Mulroney?? Get your facts straight. The spending spree happened well before Mulroney as it happened under Trudeau.

Lets remember it was Brian Mulroney who brought in the much dreaded GST in order to combat the massive debt left by the Trudeau liberals. Mulroney also governed during a recession so gov't revenues were down. It was through this and other policies (ie Free Trade) that the Chretian government acutally benefited from when the ecomony rebounded. One of Chretian's platforms was the abolish the GST when elected something which he never did because it brought in the revenue the government needed inorder to balance the books.

Harper is no fan or friend of Mulroney! The two don't speak to each other particularily after the Schrieber inquiry. Lets remember Harper was a member of the Reform Party which desimated the federal PC's.

Mulroney had a GOLDEN opportunity to eliminate the deficit during the massive boom of the 80's....but even though the economy was booming he still delivered deficit after deficit...which is why we ended up with that awful slog in the 90's to rein in the deficit while the economy was weak

 

[dirk076]

This whole thread is a joke but typical from the same old posters. When you actually have some proof of a hidden agenda maybe someone will pay attention.

I'll take the guy the Liberals have failed to demonize with their bogeyman stories before the thieves Harper replaced anyday. That's right. Chretien and his party were nothing but that. When Canadians had their fill of their pockets being picked and billions of tax dollars "lost" or "misplaced" they tossed the smarmy assholes out. The Liberals still need an enema.

 

[exbrower]

"billions of "lost" or misplaced tax dollars"? source?

 

[nottyboi]

This whole thread is a joke but typical from the same old posters. When you actually have some proof of a hidden agenda maybe someone will pay attention.

I'll take the guy the Liberals have failed to demonize with their bogeyman stories before the thieves Harper replaced anyday. That's right. Chretien and his party were nothing but that. When Canadians had their fill of their pockets being picked and billions of tax dollars "lost" or "misplaced" they tossed the smarmy assholes out. The Liberals still need an enema.

Hmm yeah the G20 was such a model of integrity and prudence.

 

[wigglee]

i bet that 98% of the 58% who vote have easy internet access.......why does an election have to cost 300 million bucks? It doesn't have to, we could have one every week for next to nothing if those clowns really cared for democracy. But of course, they don't want more democracy, they just want power. And Canadians are too dumb and apathetic to demand proportional representation and internet voting.....maybe the 42% who don't vote are actually casting their vote for " who gives a shit, there is no democracy here, and little hope to change things!"

 

[Mervyn]

This whole thread is a joke but typical from the same old posters. When you actually have some proof of a hidden agenda maybe someone will pay attention.

That won't happen, if someone actually went to the trouble of proving the existance of a hidden agenda, it would no longer be hidden, and that would defeat the purpose of using the hidden agenda acusation.

 

[alb]

Mulroney had a GOLDEN opportunity to eliminate the deficit during the massive boom of the 80's....but even though the economy was booming he still delivered deficit after deficit...which is why we ended up with that awful slog in the 90's to rein in the deficit while the economy was weak

Not sure where you get your information. In the early 1980s Canada suffered a deep recession and unemployment rose to 11%. From 1981 to nearly 1983 the country went through a terrible recession that strongly shook the foundations of Canada's welfare state. Mulroney was 1st elected in September 1984 while just coming out of the recession with a high national debt and high unemployment left by the liberals. Throughout most of the 1980's we still had high levels of inflation and high interest rates to contend with.

One of Mulroney's ideas to eliminate the debt was the introduction of the GST which the Chretian libererals rode the coat tails on when they came to power in 1993 to reduce the deficit. Further another plan was the Free Trade Agreement with the United States which were long negotiations. The treaty was ratified in 1988 and entered into effect on January 1, 1989.

After a brief recession which lasted 8 months and ended in March 1991 the "massive boom" you mentined was in the 1990's (not 1980's). Of which both economies in the US and Canada (and the world) saw there greatest period of growth in history where inflation was under control and interest rates started to decline. Chretian was elected in 1993 and presided over the country in a global economic boom which further increased the gov't coffers. Lets remember how Chretian balanced the books they did it on the back of the provinces but cutting transfer payments for education and healthcare etc. and they also were able to elimnate the debt by benefiting from the GST and Free Trade Agreement enacted my the Mulroney Gov't.

 

[Don]

Ah! A lame attempt to diffuse the article without directly refuting any of it's actual content, because of course, you can't.

Would you waste your time trying to research information from say a Rush Limbaugh blog? You would see the source and just go, this man is full of crap. Same goes with counterpunch.

 

[Anynym]

Considering all the large jails they are building, the crack down on crime they already passed and the religious zealot that Harpo has running the justice department, you are 100% correct.

You do realize that the Liberals have announced that they plan to keep all the Crime Bills in place which have been passed by the Conservative Government, right?

The Liberals talk about not keeping criminals in jail for so long, but that's not up to them.

At least, not without interference with Judicial Independence. Clearly, you know what they need to do to implement what they have announced.

 

[JustSex]

Conservative gov't spending spree under Mulroney?? Get your facts straight.

My facts come from the Canadian Government Publications - Not the revised history of Conservative Party. if you dared to defend Mulroney when he was run out of office in 1992 - you'd be hung ! My God - you guys could do wonders with Hitler's image.

I hated Trudeau but we were bent over and raped when this crooked sleazeball hit town. NINE YEARS - How the f*ck can you put nine years of record deficits on Trudeau ??? We were astonished when Trudeau ran the deficit to $200 Billion - imagine our shock when in 9 years Mulroney did not stabilize the deficit - he took it up to almost $600 Billion dollars ! Only the most gullible of Tory blue die harts could possible blame that on Trudeau. If only he had 10 to 25 more years ... his strategy would have kicked in. You see you have to triple the deficit before your fiscal rewards kick in. Wake Up !!!!!

Amazingly (I never associated Liberals with fiscal responsibility before) the 10 years of paying down the debt occurred under the Liberal budgets. The first year that the budget started to run a deficient - Stephen Harper's first full year in office. In the next year - under his careful supervision - the next budget is going to wipe out the 10 years of budget decreases. Of course with $1 Billion dollar photo ops, $30 Billion closed door Jet purchases .... maybe I'm worrying too much.

Sadly - Bob Rae & Micheal Enigma is in the other camp so it's between the devil you know and the unknown

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/Content/LOP/ResearchPublications/2010-08-e.htm

http://www.debtclock.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=45&Itemid=42

 

[red]

i bet that 98% of the 58% who vote have easy internet access.......why does an election have to cost 300 million bucks? It doesn't have to, we could have one every week for next to nothing if those clowns really cared for democracy. But of course, they don't want more democracy, they just want power. And Canadians are too dumb and apathetic to demand proportional representation and internet voting.....maybe the 42% who don't vote are actually casting their vote for " who gives a shit, there is no democracy here, and little hope to change things!"

i agree- we could just do a poll on terb which would be binding