Mayor Miller - wage freeze

[good to go]

Open bidding for those jobs would be fair.

The concept of the closed shop removes any chance of an optimal contract from the paying publics perspective.


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Since the job is basically learned on the job. The public would be at a huge disadvantage. It takes years to learn the nuances of a job to be truly good at it.

 

[good to go]

We should fire everyone who works for the TTC the way Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers. I can't imagine that TTC workers are any more critical than ATC's.

Sure the city would take a hit for a month or two while their replacements are hired (probably in many cases the same people being hired back under new terms) but in the long run the savings to taxpayers would be HUGE.

Having done that the city could then approach all its other unionized groups with a simple message: You want to be next, or are you going to make us a fair deal?

This is not possible due to safety of the public, the system is very antiquated and only with 5 yrs or so of knowledge can you even attempt to run it.

 

[buckwheat1]

I agree, look at the subway accident years ago a new driver and millions of $$$ in damages. You don't drive a bus over night either

 

[Dark Chimera]

Open bidding for those jobs would be fair.

The concept of the closed shop removes any chance of an optimal contract from the paying publics perspective.


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Ok I see your point.

If someone was allowed to bid on a TTC job at a lower hourly wage - which they would in this environment for sure - then the employee will have to lower their wage or find a new job.

I guess this is what you mean.

BUT

Unions and the "closed shop concept" was made legal in order to protect workers from over exploitation , you do not agree with this law but free market capitalism.

Fair enough. Your point is made and it is intelligent


I will argue against the free market as being incredibly exploitative as its history shows.

Do you think it is OK for less than 20% of the population to own over 80% of the wealth? This is the bigger concern IMHO

The end result of this market meltdown is increasing this disparity as the rich are buying up stocks and land at fire sale prices. Why are not you not angry at this? They are far richer and do no productive work for society that I can see. How does selling short and driving up prices through speculation create wealth for the workers who produce ALL THE WEALTH ? As we have seen , it actually destroys the wealth.



What protection do you feel the workers should have if any?

In the Godfather it was made clear that the business of business is business.


The Mafia is simply capitalism without the rules.

Is this what you prefer?



BTW they have open shops down south in the USA they call it " right to work law " a euphemism if there ever was one

perhaps you should work in one of those unions for $10 with no rights before deciding, or perhaps not, just a suggestion



Capitalism is quite the merry dance, on this we can agree I suspect

 

[buckwheat1]

Well said, look no furthure then Walmart and the way it treats its employees.
The largest sued employeer in the world.

 

[good to go]

I would say that the people who complain about the TTC the most dont actually ride it. They just need something to bitch about since they are in a mood.

 

[buckwheat1]

I don't mind the TCC but I will say TTC stands for take the car lol!!!

 

[fuji]

This is not possible due to safety of the public, the system is very antiquated and only with 5 yrs or so of knowledge can you even attempt to run it.

Shut it down for a month while that gets sorted. The savings to taxpayers would make it worthwhile.

 

[fuji]

You cannot fire them for taking a legal action.

Once their contract is up fire the lot of them. They can protest but it won't be a strike because they won't have jobs. Sell the infrastructure to a new transit agency and advertise for jobs at a proper market wage rate and with competative (and I mean competative) benefits.

 

[RogerRabbit]

David "time-bomb" Miller is good at SPIN but...

Mayor Miller is wanting a wage freeze for NON - UNION workers in the city of Toronto. He says this will save the city 20 million over 2 years.

I have no problem paying people for an honest days work, especially when you compare them to Bay St. iBankers who repackage companies for a living...

My issue with many City employees is their lack of results for these good wages, that is why we have far too many on the payrolls. At very least how can we do more, with what we have? We don`t need another 1300 staff unless 1300 are let go, through packages, retirement incentives, etc. Time to let some new blood in...

David Miller is good at SPIN and helping his supporters, but what about the rest of us? What has he done for you lately, as a taxpayer?

What would change people minds about him, as he has gotten away with so much?

He and his crew will bankrupt this City if they continue to spend far more than they take in...

What will be his legacy, when he leaves....

 

[tboy]

Not that I support 85% of counsel, but getting rid of that many would only be a drop in the bucket in terms of the budget.

Not sure if Miller's entire voter base is comprised of the unions, but perhaps his campaign support is, not to mention that he's a leftwinger anyways.

He should be concerned about the taxpaying public and not special interest groups and exercise the same fiscal restraint that he wants to impose on the non-union sector to the unions as well. Personally, I don't think he has the balls.

You said it, but it isn't so much whether he has the balls or not, but does he have the real desire to......

Problem with Miller is he is first and foremost a politician more concerned with staying in office than actually running the city correctly. Then his next priority is cowtowing to the unions and making sure they are firmly, totally, and unequivocally forever in power....then comes the running of the city, IF there is money left over I mean.....

 

[good to go]

Shut it down for a month while that gets sorted. The savings to taxpayers would make it worthwhile.

It would take much longer than a month. Plus the politicians would burn at the stake for that one.

 

[good to go]

Once their contract is up fire the lot of them. They can protest but it won't be a strike because they won't have jobs. Sell the infrastructure to a new transit agency and advertise for jobs at a proper market wage rate and with competative (and I mean competative) benefits.

The riders of the TTC would cry like babies, look at when they were off for just two days. It was a Saturday and Sunday at that too, the businesses would lose their shirts on that one.

 

[fuji]

It would take much longer than a month. Plus the politicians would burn at the stake for that one.

Put it out for tender now, start training their replacements now, fire the lot of them in a year. I suspect many current TTC employees would opt for jobs with the new transit agency at a market wage rather than face unemployment so I don't see there being a big problem attracting or training up the necessary skills.

 

[buckwheat1]

One CANNOT fire an employee at the end of the contract, the contract runs until aa new one is signed the only thing that isn't in effect is their wages and there on hold until a new contract is signed and then retro wages are paid. Folks it's not so simple we have labour laws protecting idiots from taking over and that's why we have unions in the first place to save people (workers) from being screwed.

 

[good to go]

Some people are just jealous of what others have.
Gotta pick up my new car today at 3, later.

 

[buckwheat1]

your right on I hope you love your new GM car what ya get (buy)?

 

[fuji]

The riders of the TTC would cry like babies, look at when they were off for just two days. It was a Saturday and Sunday at that too, the businesses would lose their shirts on that one.

I suggest the city mail every taxpayer a cheque for their share of the amount of money that is being saved over the first five years of operation. If the plan gets voted down people would have to return the money. That ought to shut people up.

 

[fuji]

One CANNOT fire an employee at the end of the contract

Yes you can. The business is shutting down. No more TTC. The assets of the TTC to be sold to the new business which will hire its own new staff.

 

[a 1 player]

Do you think it is OK for less than 20% of the population to own over 80% of the wealth? This is the bigger concern IMHO

This is indeed right. There are very few who have the ambition, drive and talent to be the cream of the crop. I for one an thankful for these men and women as they employ millions of people.

The end result of this market meltdown is increasing this disparity as the rich are buying up stocks and land at fire sale prices. Why are not you not angry at this? They are far richer and do no productive work for society that I can see. How does selling short and driving up prices through speculation create wealth for the workers who produce ALL THE WEALTH ? As we have seen , it actually destroys the wealth.

No productive work? You have got to be kidding me. They are the most productive of all. One does not get to be a CEO and lead an entire company by sitting on their asses and not getting results. Remember too, that a huge amount of their wealth is tied up in the company itself. Yes, Ted Rogers had a huge bank account, but that was only pennies on the dollar as to what he had invested in Rogers Broadcasting. Wealth generates wealth, not destroys it. The destruction comes from bad investments, business practices, and choices. Lending at sub-prime is just one example.

What protection do you feel the workers should have if any?

There are laws in place that protect the rights of ALL workers.