Mayor Miller - wage freeze

[Dark Chimera]

One CANNOT fire an employee at the end of the contract, the contract runs until aa new one is signed the only thing that isn't in effect is their wages and there on hold until a new contract is signed and then retro wages are paid. Folks it's not so simple we have labour laws protecting idiots from taking over and that's why we have unions in the first place to save people (workers) from being screwed.

To say nothing of the literal blood that would flow of the streets of TO as they brought in the military to control the riots.

Every union in Canada would support the demonstrations.

Worker would be walking off their jobs in support.

This is not the USA where a Reagan clone can take away worker rights then set up a "free market" that has caused the greatest financial crisis in history.

 

[evilsgood]

Miller talks about of both sides of his mouth. If he's really trying to freeze wages for non-union employees (which I doubt) for the simple fact that police, fire and other emergency services already negotiated great contracts just before the bottom fell out, and the city union employees are up for renegotiation. If he's planning to run in 2010 he needs to make them happy too. They'll side with the non-union and offer up a strike mandate.

I think this is just lip service. They've tapped all the reserves and instituted a tax increase double that of inflation just to get through 2009. And if the Province harmonizes the federal and provincial taxes that's just another whammy against the taxpayer. I haven't seen one instance of King Miller actually decreasing or holding the line on spending since he's been in office.

 

[fuji]

To say nothing of the literal blood that would flow of the streets of TO as they brought in the military to control the riots.

Maybe we will have to bring the military in to control the riots, nevertheless it's the right thing to do. If former TTC workers can't abide by the law and want a violent confrontation with the authorities they will lose that fight.

 

[buckwheat1]

Well I guess you need someone to run against him he beat John Tory and Jane Pitman by a land slide, you need a relaible candidate like Pinball clemmons.

 

[a 1 player]

Well I guess you need someone to run against him he beat John Tory and Jane Pitman by a land slide, you need a relaible candidate like Pinball clemmons.

That is the best idea I have heard so far!

 

[fuji]

I have to say that Toronto Island Airport is working out great, I never fly out of Pearson any more for trips to New York, Chicago, Ottawa, Montreal, etc., and it even flies Tremblaunt in the winter! Awesome.

 

[oldjones]

Once their contract is up fire the lot of them. They can protest but it won't be a strike because they won't have jobs. Sell the infrastructure to a new transit agency and advertise for jobs at a proper market wage rate and with competative (and I mean competative) benefits.

Sure you don't mean competitive?

 

[buckwheat1]

true or not, isn't teh island just prop planes and no jets? is there any time differnece flying from Island then perason in the air. I bet one doesn't have to be at the island 3 hours before departure.

 

[good to go]

your right on I hope you love your new GM car what ya get (buy)?

Bought a Hyundai Genesis.

I dont want anything to do with the big 3, they are aging dinosaurs with cavemen for executives.

 

[landscaper]

Fair contracts generally don't include jobs for life, which is what the outside workers got two contracts ago, the contracts generally don't include increases that will cripple a municipality financially, which is what all the contracts to the unionized workers are doing to the city.( with the help of the congenital idiots running the show).

Toronto Police services assumes they will be the highest paid force in the country when the contract comes up they simply look for anybody making more and base the demands on that, fire is the same.

The TTC can be replaced it will be messy and it will piss people off but it can be done. If the city can not come to a usable contract a substitute provider can be contracted for. The equipment and facilities are the property of the city proper not the TTC . York region has both the YRT and VIVA . Viva went on strike last year YRT did not they are two separate companies contracted to provide the service. Service was slower but it worked. The VIVA drivers settled for less than the last offer .

When contracting is doen properly it works well. the problem shows up when a single union or company deems itself to important to deal with the little things like service.

 

[fuji]

If we reset to sensible wages and benefits for public employees of course they'll bitch. They feel entitled to the free lunch they get at taxpayer expense.

Maybe some taxpayers too would initially bitch about the withdrawl of services that would come with the resulting job action.

However I think taxpayer support would turnaround pretty quickly if the government did this to coincide with tax time and sent everyone in the country a cheque for their share of the wage savings. It would be a big cheque.

Remember it isn't David Miller or Dalton McGuinty who is paying for these union gas bags--it's you and me. We pay these inflated wages out of our own hard won earnings. It isn't the government's money that is being wasted on these whingers--it's OUR money.

 

[The Options Menu]

No productive work? You have got to be kidding me. They are the most productive of all. One does not get to be a CEO and lead an entire company by sitting on their asses and not getting results. Remember too, that a huge amount of their wealth is tied up in the company itself. Yes, Ted Rogers had a huge bank account, but that was only pennies on the dollar as to what he had invested in Rogers Broadcasting. Wealth generates wealth, not destroys it. The destruction comes from bad investments, business practices, and choices. Lending at sub-prime is just one example.

pretty sure he means productive labour in the Adam Smith sense. You know, the guy a lot of neo-con and neo-lib blowhards name drop but never got around to reading.

Unions are more or less fine. They're still the best protection for workers, and the best guarantor of a living, or heaven forbid, decent wage. I love how so many people are keen on promoting a race to the bottom. There's generally a reason for this: They think they're 'special' and would win that race. All of the evidence has proved that in the vast bulk of cases these people are wrong. (Just empirically wrong.) The only people that a race to the bottom helps is the rich... The growth mantra is largely BS, distribution is far more important, AND THE MEDIAN IS FAR MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE AVERAGE. Recent events should go a long way to showing that.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who think they can win a contest of 'fuck your neighbour' or who have chronic jealousy that they aren't actually winning at the race to the bottom. If Unions need anything, it is to be more strongly encouraged to fire the incompetent, to be less able to resist updating machine stock / technology when jobs are at stake, and to be forced into quotas that represent a sustained pace of work. In exchange for that it should be made easier to organize and harder to hire scabs / de-certify.

The vast bulk of Union employees work hard for their money. There are bad apples, and Unions have made some bad choices. The same could be said of most management, and of non-union employees. I sit beside non-union idiots who are borderline incompetent, and because your typical MBA is in no position to judge, these folks can coast along forever. To all those trying to cheer for contract busting, I hope somebody in a position of power craps on a contract with you and laughs in your face.

 

[5hummer]

I hate to say this.
But I agree with the freeze.
Considering, whenever I have to deal with the "City employee(s)" -- they are lazy, unintelligent, complacent, ignorant, and rude.

You get better service at a McDonalds!
(That's the sad part)

 

[Keebler Elf]

Open bidding for those jobs would be fair.

In other words, let's pay minimum wage (or lower). I'm sure the quality will be so much better.

What a stupid suggestion.

 

[LancsLad]

In other words, let's pay minimum wage (or lower). I'm sure the quality will be so much better.

What a stupid suggestion.

Thats why you'll always be beaten by those of us who see the upside.


Just like any other free market choice the potential employer can weigh the cost /benefits of each applicant on their own merit. the lowest wage person will not necesarilybe the on hired. A good purchaser of any service will always pay more for increased benefits as the incremental gain outweighs the costs.


Carry on as you were.


I'll pocket the rewards,


.

 

[biog]

Lancs,

Didn't you read the sign? Don't feed the trolls.

 

[spankingman]

Wage Freeze

Id rather have a frozen wage than NO wage!!!!! Suck it up and be THANKFUL you have a job for Christs sake!!!!!! Typical Civil Servant whine whine fucking whine!

 

[LancsLad]

Lancs,

Didn't you read the sign? Don't feed the trolls.

Good point.


I shall let them all wallow in their bitter jealousy.



.

 

[The Options Menu]

Thats why you'll always be beaten by those of us who see the upside.


Just like any other free market choice the potential employer can weigh the cost /benefits of each applicant on their own merit. the lowest wage person will not necesarilybe the on hired. A good purchaser of any service will always pay more for increased benefits as the incremental gain outweighs the costs.


Carry on as you were.


I'll pocket the rewards,


.

Hint: The plural of anecdote isn't truth. (And you've even managed to omit the anecdote, but I digress.) They've run this experiment for 30+ years and all you get is lower growth, and growth that isn't well distributed. Hence the increase between 'median' and 'average' throughout much of the Western world.

Anyway, I stay out of the politics forum for this reason... So I'm banning myself from this thread...

edit: The math on this is long in and races to the bottom only benefit the few, and the funny thing is that they also manage to be self destructive to 'that few' in the medium to long term.

 

[buckwheat1]

Miller and folks got a 2.5% raise in January 2008 so why not the employees.
This morning news, union worksers are asking for 3% like police and fire fighters, and TTC, if this was to go to arbitration they'd get 3% no problem.
so a 3% increase or there abouts is on its way.