Less lethal guns

[SchlongConery]

This is nothing more than a glorified paintball gun with solid balls instead of paint. Or a BB gun with .68 cal plastic bb's.

In the US, the balls are filled with various pepper spray and tear gas that explode upon impact, thereby (maybe) incapacitating the person getting hit. Pepper spray is illegal in Canada unless marketed to, and carried for the purpose of bear or dog protection. Those rounds are not available in Canada.

The gun and solid ball combination are limited to the projectile delivering less than 57 joules of energy at the muzzle. They fall under the air gun exemption which limits muzzle velocity to 500 fps or muzzle energy of 57 joules.

Those little bruises are maybe slightly worse than getting hit by a paintball where you have no protection. No way theya re stopping anyone unless you "shoot them in the (proverbial) eye".

Here are some of most important things for anyone and every one needs to realize about using a weapon for self-protection:

1. Do not carry, brandish or point anything that looks like a gun at anything or anyone you have already decided in your weapon buying/carrying decision that you are ready to kill a threat. Simply pulling out what looks to be a gun at a criminal with a gun or a cop, is going to get you shot with a real gun.

2. Do not carry or brandish a knife for self-defence unless you are such a good street fighter than you could win the close combat fight you are going to get into. And unless you are a trained fighter to some degree, count on the criminal assailant to be a better, dirtier, more experienced street fighter than you. That knife can be used against you, escalating what might be the loss of your wallet and cellphone into your death.

3. Carrying a small can of pepper spray is legal only if your intention is to use it to protect yourself against an animal. If you carry it for self-defence against a person, it is then considered a weapon. Same with a knife.

a. SO IF you are caught carrying pepper spray in the city, you can say that you have a fear of dogs and simply want it just in case you get attacked. NEVER, EVER admit you are carrying it for personal protection against a human. Do not embellish this reason with lies such as you got bit by a dog before etc. That reduces your credibility.

b. If you do carry it and have to use it as a weapon, when you get questioned never waver from the premise that you were carrying it for dog protection purposes and only when you were accosted/assaulted etc did you grab for and use it. No difference than if you used your keys or a pen to fend off the attacker.

CAUTION: Normally, when you are being investigated by the police, it's better to shut up and not say anything except ask to see a lawyer. TERB's lawyers are invited to offer their thoughts about breaking the cardinal rule of keeping your mouth shut. There is some principle of spontaneous utterances that gives them more weight than your lawyer coming up with the story later.

 

[SchlongConery]

No different than paintball bruises and welts from getting hit at 15'-20' ft.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

3. Carrying a small can of pepper spray is legal only if your intention is to use it to protect yourself against an animal. If you carry it for self-defence against a person, it is then considered a weapon. Same with a knife.

a. SO IF you are caught carrying pepper spray in the city, you can say that you have a fear of dogs and simply want it just in case you get attacked. NEVER, EVER admit you are carrying it for personal protection against a human. Do not embellish this reason with lies such as you got bit by a dog before etc. That reduces your credibility.

b. If you do carry it and have to use it as a weapon, when you get questioned never waver from the premise that you were carrying it for dog protection purposes and only when you were accosted/assaulted etc did you grab for and use it. No difference than if you used your keys or a pen to fend off the attacker

Pepper spray for humans is illegal in Canada.

I think you're referring to dog spray, but it contains a lower concentration of capsicum compared to human pepper spray.

Human pepper spray is more potent and can quickly incapacitate a human attacker, while dog spray is designed to temporarily irritate and deter a dog.

You could carry bear spray, but then you'd have to explain to the cops why you carry that since there's no bears in Toronto

 

[Ceiling Cat]

The BYRNA Technologies pepper gun, while marketed as a non-lethal self-defense tool, is absolutely illegal in Canada, and mere possession can lead to arrest. Its appearance, nearly indistinguishable from a real firearm, poses a significant risk, police officers may perceive it as a genuine threat and respond with lethal force. Moreover, if a civilian were to point this device at an armed criminal, the situation could escalate dangerously, as the criminal might react with gunfire in what he perceives as self-defense. Despite its non-lethal intent, the pepper gun carries serious legal and life-threatening consequences. You may anger your assailant and he may take it away from you and give you a pepper enema.

 

[SchlongConery]

Pepper spray for humans is illegal in Canada.
I think you're referring to dog spray, but it contains a lower concentration of capsicum compared to human pepper spray.
Human pepper spray is more potent and can quickly incapacitate a human attacker, while dog spray is designed to temporarily irritate and deter a dog.

You could carry bear spray, but then you'd have to explain to the cops why you carry that since there's no bears in Toronto

I already said pepper spray intended to be used on humans is illegal.

And if you doubt the efficacy of 1% capsacium* in your face to decide you might want to move on... or can even see... then I'll make an exception to my online privacy rule and meet you over at Tommy Thompson Park!

Or, like a former employee of mine who decided to give a little spritz in her office to see how strong it was or whatever. Fucking cleared out the entire office for half an hour. She couldn't see for just as long... and it wasn't even aimed at her! I came in a couple hours later and the residual scent still made my eyes water and cough.

It will not magically down a psycho or whatever, but it will do a LOT more to discourage their continued illegal aggression towards you than a paintball gun. And WILL reduce their effectiveness in continuing any assault while you take the opportunity to run away.

*1% concentration is max allowable in Canada.

 

[SchlongConery]

The BYRNA Technologies pepper gun, while marketed as a non-lethal self-defense tool, is absolutely illegal in Canada, and mere possession can lead to arrest. Its appearance, nearly indistinguishable from a real firearm, poses a significant risk, police officers may perceive it as a genuine threat and respond with lethal force. Moreover, if a civilian were to point this device at an armed criminal, the situation could escalate dangerously, as the criminal might react with gunfire in what he perceives as self-defense. Despite its non-lethal intent, the pepper gun carries serious legal and life-threatening consequences. You may anger your assailant and he may take it away from you and give you a pepper enema.

Exactly.

In fact the Criminal Code makes anything that reasonably resembles an actual firearm, into a firearm for purposes of criminal prosecution, if brandished in any way as a firearm for illegal or personal protection purposes.

I'm ok with the pepper spray being carried and used against the aggressor as it WILL reduce their abilities to continue the assault.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

I already said pepper spray intended to be used on humans is illegal

You wrote

Carrying a small can of pepper spray is legal only if your intention is to use it to protect yourself against an animal. If you carry it for self-defence against a person, it is then considered a weapon. Same with a knife.

Are you sure you're allowed to carry it on you in the city of Toronto, even if you don't use it for self-defense?? I don't think you are.

AI says nope: https://shorturl.at/0OLkG

 

[barnacler]

You can use a firearm to defend yourself in Canada, depending on the circumstances:

Self-Defence With a Firearm

Self-defence with a firearm may be legal in Canada as long as you can prove that your life was in danger, though case law shows that can be difficult to prove.

www.criminalcodehelp.ca

In every criminal case, the Crown must prove that you are the person who committed the offence, the date the incident took place and the elements of the crime, including that you were in possession and control of the weapon at the time. They also must prove that you did not act in self-defence, which is allowed by s.34 of the Charter, though case law shows this is a tough defence to make in Canada.
The court can only convict if the Crown proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not act in self-defence or that your firearm use went beyond what was reasonable in the situation.

This is all quite reasonable.

Defending Yourself Against Criminal Charges
Self-defence with a firearm is legal as long as you can prove that your life was in danger, though case law shows that can be difficult to prove.

 

[Robert Mugabe]

According to the internet it's because dogs have a more sensitive olfactory system compared to humans.

Also, bear spray only has 0.7% more than human pepper spray and is apparently very effective.

So why are they always sniffing each other's assholes?

 

[skiierelite]

But it can do a bit of damage. Especially if you get hit in the face.
Here's screenshots of test videos.
The first is the mark it leaves in wood.
The 2nd is the bruises it does to the body

I've owned several air rifles and pistols before. The CO2 gas cartridge is great because you can fire multiple shots, but it's muzzle velocity is still limited. I owned a Crosman Pump pistol which is the most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, 495 fps. The limit is 500 fps, but the drawback is that it requires several pumps to reach that maximum. It can do more damage than pistol in the original post, however, the pain it inflicts and stopping power is laughable compared to a real firearm. If I was attacked at home, I'd prefer my 12" meat cutting knife , that I can use to stab and slash.

 

[barnacler]

I owned a Crosman Pump pistol which is the most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, 495 fps. The limit is 500 fps,...

Incorrect.

Be precise when you state so-called facts.

You can own much more powerful air rifles, but they are then classified differently as the ones below 500 fps.

One random example:

Stoeger® Sport 4000L Grey Synthetic High-Powered Air Rifle Combo | Cabela's Canada

• Includes 4x32 scope • Ergonomic, comfortable fit • Break-action cocking system Chambered in .177 pellet, the Stoeger Sport 4000L Grey is a comfortable, ergonomically designed air rifle that can be customized to each shooter. Driven by a powerful spring piston, the Sport 4000L Grey can...

www.cabelas.ca

For over 500 fps you need a PAL to purchase.

Totally legal.

 

[barnacler]

You can get like BB guns from Chinese websites like Temu and what not that come with metal balls. Not sure what their specs are compared to these. Talk to a lawyer who deals with criminal law before trying to use anything for self defense in Canada lol. Most of the times if you do something to someone else you can get in trouble which sucks for people defending themself in Canada. IIRC there's only been a handful of times in Canada where someone with a gun who defended themself was deemed not guilty but the legal process was costly. I recall 2 cases off hand where that has happened. America has the better defending rights of course. There's some places where things are so bad cops have told home owners if you shot someone on your property that's known to cause trouble then drag their body closer to your doorstep and say they were trying to enter. Especially for ladies dealing with weirdos who perhaps stand outside and watch them often.

LOL, no, DON'T talk to a criminal lawyer before trying to use anything for self -defense in Canada!

Are you serious? You are saying, risking your life is better then risking jail?

Of COURSE you are going to go through legal things if you shoot dead someone invading your house with a gun - as you should! We can't just allow RANDOM SHOOTINGS, but...if someone is posing an imminent threat to your life, you kill that person if necessary to preserve your own life. Then, if you can prove that it was necessary, you are fine. If not, you may go to jail for manslaughter.

But last time I heard, when you go to jail for manslaughter you are actually alive, no?

 

[barnacler]

This idea that you can't kill someone with a gun that is threatening your life is a bit of an urban legend:

https://torontosun.com/news/national/hunter-rural-home-invasions-becoming-a-killing-zone-for-thugs


"Some of Canada’s small army of home invasion thugs might want to start giving a think to terrorizing people in rural areas.

In the past week, three have been iced by their targeted victims. You won’t hear a lot about it. Law enforcement in eastern Ontario and New Brunswick have been deathly quiet about the two incidents.

Cops say that on Feb. 2, around 9 p.m., OPP officers were called to a rural home in South Glengarry — about 110 kilometres southeast of Ottawa — for reports of two people shot.


Inside the house were two men who had been shot to death. A third slipped away in a vehicle and has not yet been found.

Detectives say the incident was targeted. But the outcome was certainly not what the thugs had desired.

“These individuals did go there for a reason, did force their way into the home and were confronted by an individual resulting in two of them being deceased and one on the run,” OPP spokesman Bill Dickson said.

As for the residents, they were unharmed. They were taken into custody but later released unconditionally, and no charges have been laid.


Cops have not released the names of the recently departed home invaders.

Dickson told The Toronto Sun Tuesday that the investigation is “still ongoing” and that detectives were trying to determine the nature of the apparent home invasion.

Across the country, death came calling for Brian Justin Johnson, 35. The Halifax man was taken off the board by a New Brunswick homeowner during what cops describe as a “violent home invasion.”

On Feb. 6, around 5:51 a.m., RCMP officers responded to a report of a home invasion in the tiny hamlet of Berry Hill, west of Moncton.

Cops said the invaders blew the door out with a shotgun to gain entry. But there was no prize behind Door Number One.

According to cops, a man and woman in their early thirties were home when three thugs forcibly broke into their home. Among the cast was the unfortunate Mr. Johnson who was found dead at the scene.


When police arrived, Johnson’s compadres were long gone. Cops described the incident as “targeted.” So far, there have been no charges filed against the homeowners.

For felons practising the fine art of home invasion, as in real estate, it’s location, location, location.

You’re unlikely to get wasted pulling a home invasion in Markham, Richmond Hill, Pickering or Rosedale.

But once you go rural, there’s a greater chance that your intended victim has a gun and a greater likelihood you’ll be fitted with a toe tag.

Philosophical hitman Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson) thwarts Pumpkin and Honey Bunny’s scheme in Pulp Fiction. But he doesn’t ice them.

“You happen to pull this s*** while I’m in a transitional period, so I don’t wanna kill you,” Winnfield tells the pair.

Rural home invaders should probably pray that some of the armed country folk are also in a “transitional period” if the last week’s events are any indication."

 

[skiierelite]

Incorrect.

Be precise when you state so-called facts.

You can own much more powerful air rifles, but they are then classified differently as the ones below 500 fps.

One random example:

Stoeger® Sport 4000L Grey Synthetic High-Powered Air Rifle Combo | Cabela's Canada

• Includes 4x32 scope • Ergonomic, comfortable fit • Break-action cocking system Chambered in .177 pellet, the Stoeger Sport 4000L Grey is a comfortable, ergonomically designed air rifle that can be customized to each shooter. Driven by a powerful spring piston, the Sport 4000L Grey can...

www.cabelas.ca

For over 500 fps you need a PAL to purchase.

Totally legal.

We are discussing weapons that don't require a PAL, obviously.

 

[Phil C. McNasty]

The ridiculous thing about Canadian law is if you do shoot someone dead in self-defense, you will still end up being charged, and you then have to spend tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of dollars on a good lawyer to get yourself acquitted. Thats money you'll never see back either

 

[barnacler]

We are discussing weapons that don't require a PAL, obviously.

Nice after-the-fact try, LOL.


"I owned a Crosman Pump pistol which is the most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, 495 fps."

That is factually incorrect.

If you had said "without a permit" - fine, but you didn't.

We are discussing weapons that don't require a PAL, obviously.

Ah! I get it.

Y

So really, what you said was that " the most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, 495 fps. The limit is 500 fps, ",

BUT, , it was kind of understood, I mean, everyone should have known that what you meant was,


"The most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, is 495fps, unless you , ahhh, legally own an air rifle that is over 500 fps, if you do it legally.

Gotcha.

 

[skiierelite]

Nice after-the-fact try, LOL.


"I owned a Crosman Pump pistol which is the most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, 495 fps."

That is factually incorrect.

If you had said "without a permit" - fine, but you didn't.

Ah! I get it.

Y

So really, what you said was that " the most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, 495 fps. The limit is 500 fps, ",

BUT, , it was kind of understood, I mean, everyone should have known that what you meant was,


"The most powerful air pistol you can legally own in Canada, is 495fps, unless you , ahhh, legally own an air rifle that is over 500 fps, if you do it legally.

Gotcha.

Read the title of the thread. Looks like you and the other guy have egos so huge that you enjoy wasting your time trying to prove someone on the internet wrong, even when it's not relevant to the discussion. Get a life!

 

[SchlongConery]

Incorrect.

Be precise when you state so-called facts.

You can own much more powerful air rifles, but they are then classified differently as the ones below 500 fps.

One random example:

Stoeger® Sport 4000L Grey Synthetic High-Powered Air Rifle Combo | Cabela's Canada

• Includes 4x32 scope • Ergonomic, comfortable fit • Break-action cocking system Chambered in .177 pellet, the Stoeger Sport 4000L Grey is a comfortable, ergonomically designed air rifle that can be customized to each shooter. Driven by a powerful spring piston, the Sport 4000L Grey can...

www.cabelas.ca

For over 500 fps you need a PAL to purchase.

Totally legal.

To be precise, the under 500 fps only applies to.177 cal pellets or BB's with a mass less than 8 grams.

The other limit is muzzle energy at 5.7 joules/ 4.2 ft lbs. So that means a .22 cal air rifle is limited to 375 fps with a 14 grain pellet.


When I was a kid, I just loved target shooting with an Anschutz precision target air rifle. I have to say that it was as gratifying as trap shooting except without the sore shoulder!

 

[m0539]

One of these to the head is lethal. Do your homework gents. 8gr .68 cal projectile to the head is entering the brain. Check youtube.

GEN2 Defense Pistol 35-50 Joules: Pistelle X-68 Upgraded Seals & Compo

The GEN2 Pistelle X-68 features upgraded seals for enhanced reliability and durability. This second-generation model incorporates improved production components with tighter tolerances, ensuring superior performance. Included GEN2 Pistelle X-68 upgraded seals (O-ring Seal Kit and Lubricant...

defenseinnovation.com

 

[PeteOsborne]

Video on this firearm from a Canadian firearms lawyer.