Less lethal guns
- Thread starter Phil C. McNasty
- Start date
Fun fact, there is a licensed Glock paintball gun that I think would outperform the Byrna and I feel like from a legal perspective it would be much easier to explain.
So it's a "fun gun" not a stun gun.
Kind of similar to a pittbull with no teeth. Which I approve of.
Kind of similar to a pittbull with no teeth. Which I approve of.
Let me shoot you in the face, and let's see how much fun we have
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But it can do a bit of damage. Especially if you get hit in the face.
Here's screenshots of test videos.
The first is the mark it leaves in wood.
The 2nd is the bruises it does to the body
Just be sure the other guy doesn't have a serious gun.Let me shoot you in the face, and let's see how much fun we have
This is nothing more than a glorified paintball gun with solid balls instead of paint. Or a BB gun with .68 cal plastic bb's.
In the US, the balls are filled with various pepper spray and tear gas that explode upon impact, thereby (maybe) incapacitating the person getting hit. Pepper spray is illegal in Canada unless marketed to, and carried for the purpose of bear or dog protection. Those rounds are not available in Canada.
The gun and solid ball combination are limited to the projectile delivering less than 57 joules of energy at the muzzle. They fall under the air gun exemption which limits muzzle velocity to 500 fps or muzzle energy of 57 joules.
Those little bruises are maybe slightly worse than getting hit by a paintball where you have no protection. No way theya re stopping anyone unless you "shoot them in the (proverbial) eye".
Here are some of most important things for anyone and every one needs to realize about using a weapon for self-protection:
1. Do not carry, brandish or point anything that looks like a gun at anything or anyone you have already decided in your weapon buying/carrying decision that you are ready to kill a threat. Simply pulling out what looks to be a gun at a criminal with a gun or a cop, is going to get you shot with a real gun.
2. Do not carry or brandish a knife for self-defence unless you are such a good street fighter than you could win the close combat fight you are going to get into. And unless you are a trained fighter to some degree, count on the criminal assailant to be a better, dirtier, more experienced street fighter than you. That knife can be used against you, escalating what might be the loss of your wallet and cellphone into your death.
3. Carrying a small can of pepper spray is legal only if your intention is to use it to protect yourself against an animal. If you carry it for self-defence against a person, it is then considered a weapon. Same with a knife.
a. SO IF you are caught carrying pepper spray in the city, you can say that you have a fear of dogs and simply want it just in case you get attacked. NEVER, EVER admit you are carrying it for personal protection against a human. Do not embellish this reason with lies such as you got bit by a dog before etc. That reduces your credibility.
b. If you do carry it and have to use it as a weapon, when you get questioned never waver from the premise that you were carrying it for dog protection purposes and only when you were accosted/assaulted etc did you grab for and use it. No difference than if you used your keys or a pen to fend off the attacker.
CAUTION: Normally, when you are being investigated by the police, it's better to shut up and not say anything except ask to see a lawyer. TERB's lawyers are invited to offer their thoughts about breaking the cardinal rule of keeping your mouth shut. There is some principle of spontaneous utterances that gives them more weight than your lawyer coming up with the story later.
In the US, the balls are filled with various pepper spray and tear gas that explode upon impact, thereby (maybe) incapacitating the person getting hit. Pepper spray is illegal in Canada unless marketed to, and carried for the purpose of bear or dog protection. Those rounds are not available in Canada.
The gun and solid ball combination are limited to the projectile delivering less than 57 joules of energy at the muzzle. They fall under the air gun exemption which limits muzzle velocity to 500 fps or muzzle energy of 57 joules.
Those little bruises are maybe slightly worse than getting hit by a paintball where you have no protection. No way theya re stopping anyone unless you "shoot them in the (proverbial) eye".
Here are some of most important things for anyone and every one needs to realize about using a weapon for self-protection:
1. Do not carry, brandish or point anything that looks like a gun at anything or anyone you have already decided in your weapon buying/carrying decision that you are ready to kill a threat. Simply pulling out what looks to be a gun at a criminal with a gun or a cop, is going to get you shot with a real gun.
2. Do not carry or brandish a knife for self-defence unless you are such a good street fighter than you could win the close combat fight you are going to get into. And unless you are a trained fighter to some degree, count on the criminal assailant to be a better, dirtier, more experienced street fighter than you. That knife can be used against you, escalating what might be the loss of your wallet and cellphone into your death.
3. Carrying a small can of pepper spray is legal only if your intention is to use it to protect yourself against an animal. If you carry it for self-defence against a person, it is then considered a weapon. Same with a knife.
a. SO IF you are caught carrying pepper spray in the city, you can say that you have a fear of dogs and simply want it just in case you get attacked. NEVER, EVER admit you are carrying it for personal protection against a human. Do not embellish this reason with lies such as you got bit by a dog before etc. That reduces your credibility.
b. If you do carry it and have to use it as a weapon, when you get questioned never waver from the premise that you were carrying it for dog protection purposes and only when you were accosted/assaulted etc did you grab for and use it. No difference than if you used your keys or a pen to fend off the attacker.
CAUTION: Normally, when you are being investigated by the police, it's better to shut up and not say anything except ask to see a lawyer. TERB's lawyers are invited to offer their thoughts about breaking the cardinal rule of keeping your mouth shut. There is some principle of spontaneous utterances that gives them more weight than your lawyer coming up with the story later.
Pepper spray for humans is illegal in Canada.
I think you're referring to dog spray, but it contains a lower concentration of capsicum compared to human pepper spray.
Human pepper spray is more potent and can quickly incapacitate a human attacker, while dog spray is designed to temporarily irritate and deter a dog.
You could carry bear spray, but then you'd have to explain to the cops why you carry that since there's no bears in Toronto
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The BYRNA Technologies pepper gun, while marketed as a non-lethal self-defense tool, is absolutely illegal in Canada, and mere possession can lead to arrest. Its appearance, nearly indistinguishable from a real firearm, poses a significant risk, police officers may perceive it as a genuine threat and respond with lethal force. Moreover, if a civilian were to point this device at an armed criminal, the situation could escalate dangerously, as the criminal might react with gunfire in what he perceives as self-defense. Despite its non-lethal intent, the pepper gun carries serious legal and life-threatening consequences. You may anger your assailant and he may take it away from you and give you a pepper enema.
I was under the same impression yet they clearly market and sell in Canada. Very confusing.
I already said pepper spray intended to be used on humans is illegal.
And if you doubt the efficacy of 1% capsacium* in your face to decide you might want to move on... or can even see... then I'll make an exception to my online privacy rule and meet you over at Tommy Thompson Park!
Or, like a former employee of mine
who decided to give a little spritz in her office to see how strong it was or whatever. Fucking cleared out the entire office for half an hour. She couldn't see for just as long... and it wasn't even aimed at her! I came in a couple hours later and the residual scent still made my eyes water and cough.It will not magically down a psycho or whatever, but it will do a LOT more to discourage their continued illegal aggression towards you than a paintball gun. And WILL reduce their effectiveness in continuing any assault while you take the opportunity to run away.
*1% concentration is max allowable in Canada.
Exactly.
In fact the Criminal Code makes anything that reasonably resembles an actual firearm, into a firearm for purposes of criminal prosecution, if brandished in any way as a firearm for illegal or personal protection purposes.
I'm ok with the pepper spray being carried and used against the aggressor as it WILL reduce their abilities to continue the assault.
The unfortunate thing about pepper spray is that the person administering it usually ends up being a recipient as well. There are none with delivery systems that prevent the user from suffering as well. Albeit to a lesser extent but it's not without consequence.I already said pepper spray intended to be used on humans is illegal.
And if you doubt the efficacy of 1% capsacium* in your face to decide you might want to move on... or can even see... then I'll make an exception to my online privacy rule and meet you over at Tommy Thompson Park!
Or, like a former employee of mine
It will not magically down a psycho or whatever, but it will do a LOT more to discourage their continued illegal aggression towards you than a paintball gun. And WILL reduce their effectiveness in continuing any assault while you take the opportunity to run away.
*1% concentration is max allowable in Canada.
You wrote
Are you sure you're allowed to carry it on you in the city of Toronto, even if you don't use it for self-defense?? I don't think you are.
AI says nope: https://shorturl.at/0OLkG
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Crazy how defenseless we are here in Canada. So realistically what's the difference between illegal pepper spray and legal dog spray?
One good(but awkward) thing that is legal to carry is those big maglite flashlights. It's essentially a billy club with a light at the end and is legal any where you go. Personally I carry 2 tactical pens made by Uzi. They are strong enough to be driven thru a 2x4 and totally legal.
You can use a firearm to defend yourself in Canada, depending on the circumstances:
www.criminalcodehelp.ca
In every criminal case, the Crown must prove that you are the person who committed the offence, the date the incident took place and the elements of the crime, including that you were in possession and control of the weapon at the time. They also must prove that you did not act in self-defence, which is allowed by s.34 of the Charter, though case law shows this is a tough defence to make in Canada.
The court can only convict if the Crown proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not act in self-defence or that your firearm use went beyond what was reasonable in the situation.
This is all quite reasonable.
Defending Yourself Against Criminal Charges
Self-defence with a firearm is legal as long as you can prove that your life was in danger, though case law shows that can be difficult to prove.
Self-Defence With a Firearm
Self-defence with a firearm may be legal in Canada as long as you can prove that your life was in danger, though case law shows that can be difficult to prove.
www.criminalcodehelp.ca
In every criminal case, the Crown must prove that you are the person who committed the offence, the date the incident took place and the elements of the crime, including that you were in possession and control of the weapon at the time. They also must prove that you did not act in self-defence, which is allowed by s.34 of the Charter, though case law shows this is a tough defence to make in Canada.
The court can only convict if the Crown proves beyond a reasonable doubt that you did not act in self-defence or that your firearm use went beyond what was reasonable in the situation.
This is all quite reasonable.
Defending Yourself Against Criminal Charges
Self-defence with a firearm is legal as long as you can prove that your life was in danger, though case law shows that can be difficult to prove.
