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KINSELLA: Who's writing the cheques for anti-Israel protests?

Frankfooter

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Apr 10, 2015
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Of course you can.
If the other side decides they don't want to stop firing and kill their own hostages, that's on them.
But you can have no ceasefire and just say "we will leave the hostages in the public square" if you want.

There is no requirement for a formal ceasefire in order to release hostages.
It's easier, sure, but no one needs a ceasefire to do it.
In theory, in practice they walk into the kill zone and thats it.

 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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In theory, in practice they walk into the kill zone and thats it.

I am of the firm belief the current Israeli government doesn't want the hostages back.

But that's not the point.
You can, 100% release the hostages without a ceasefire.

Would it be better to have one?
Sure.
But it isn't necessary.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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I am of the firm belief the current Israeli government doesn't want the hostages back.

But that's not the point.
You can, 100% release the hostages without a ceasefire.

Would it be better to have one?
Sure.
But it isn't necessary.
Sure, its possible.
If that's your point, sure, I admit its possible, just incredibly unlikely.

I agree that Netanyahu doesn't really care about the hostages, he's more interested in keeping the genocide going as long as possible to maintain power. Yesterday's attack on the Iranian embassy in Syria was a perfect example. He really, really wants to escalate this into a war he can drag the US into. So far Hezbollah have kept their reprisals small scale and this looks to have been an attempt to get Iran to respond in a way that he can justify as a start of war.

I also admit that I'm shocked that this has been allowed to go on as long as it has. Yesterday Israel killed 7 international aid workers, including a Canadian, delivering food in the middle of a famine. PeePee decided yesterday would be the day he makes a speech backing Israel. Totally nutso.

(7 died, not 5)

 

Kautilya

It Doesn't Matter What You Think!
May 12, 2023
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Hamas actions reasonable to you? Please answer and we'll find out if your statement is facts...
Why are you asking the same mundane questions over and over again?

- Hamas actions killing Israeli civilians are not okay.
- Israeli actions killing Israeli civilians via employ of Hannibal Directive is not okay.
- Israeli actions mass murdering Palestinians is not okay.

However,

- Hamas actions killing IDF soldiers is okay. They are at war.
- IDF actions killing Hamas is okay. They are at war.
 

richaceg

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2009
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Why are you asking the same mundane questions over and over again?

- Hamas actions killing Israeli civilians are not okay.
- Israeli actions killing Israeli civilians via employ of Hannibal Directive is not okay.
- Israeli actions mass murdering Palestinians is not okay.

However,

- Hamas actions killing IDF soldiers is okay. They are at war.
- IDF actions killing Hamas is okay. They are at war.
If you justify Hamas actions, then you are what you call others....read the covenant...it doesn't say, IDF, it says Jews....kill all jews...
 

Kautilya

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If you justify Hamas actions, then you are what you call others....read the covenant...it doesn't say, IDF, it says Jews....kill all jews...
No it actually explicitly says "not against Jews" but against "Zionists". IDF is a Zionist organization.
 
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richaceg

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No it actually explicitly says "not against Jews" but against "Zionists". IDF is a Zionist organization.
The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
 

Kautilya

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The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him."
Not the current charter. Hamas have themselves said that it was a document of its time but the current charter is the only valid one that reflects their current positions:

The "Zionist project" (paragraphs 14 to 17) is described as a "racist, aggressive, colonial and expansionist project based on seizing the properties of others" that is hostile to the Palestinian people and their aspirations for freedom, return, and self-determination.[18] This project, the document says, not only poses a threat to the Palestinians, but also threatens the "security and interests" of the entire Arab and Islamic Ummah.[18] The document goes on to state that the conflict revolves solely around this project and that there is no religiously based conflict with Jews.
 
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shack

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Oct 2, 2001
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That's not the wording of the UN resolution.
Its states there must be a ceasefire and also the hostages should be returned.
Ceasefire first.
It doesn't say what you claim. It doesn't state any sequence of events. Both things are supposed to happen concurrently.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
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I am of the firm belief the current Israeli government doesn't want the hostages back.
That's silly. They want the hostages back. They're going to hit Rafah anyway. Whether they get the hostages or not.
 

Kautilya

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That's silly. They want the hostages back. They're going to hit Rafah anyway. Whether they get the hostages or not.
They dont want the hostages back. The hostages are a crutch to justify their genocide of the Palestinians. Isnt it weird that every hostage that has died so far, has died at the hands of the Israelis?

So every time someone says ceasefire - they will say give hostages back and we will ceasefire for 2 weeks after which we will not stop until we eliminate Hamas. But if Hamas is going to be eliminated or the war is going to continue anyway, what is the hostage release for? So Hamas will say no. So they will use that to continue mass murdering Palestinians saying hostages are not being released.

Its just trickery.

The end goal is always the same. To steal land. They will ethnically cleanse Palestinians and genocide them, sacrifice a few 100 Israelis in the process, but in the end establish security checkpoints, walls and settlements. Unless of course people step in and stop Israel, which is the current efforts via protests and what not.
 

richaceg

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Not the current charter. Hamas have themselves said that it was a document of its time but the current charter is the only valid one that reflects their current positions:

The "Zionist project" (paragraphs 14 to 17) is described as a "racist, aggressive, colonial and expansionist project based on seizing the properties of others" that is hostile to the Palestinian people and their aspirations for freedom, return, and self-determination.[18] This project, the document says, not only poses a threat to the Palestinians, but also threatens the "security and interests" of the entire Arab and Islamic Ummah.[18] The document goes on to state that the conflict revolves solely around this project and that there is no religiously based conflict with Jews.
They can say whatever the fuck they say as an "updated version" the fact that they killed civilians contradicts whatever "update" they are claiming....they didn't just kill IDF...they killed civilians and took some hostages...
 

richaceg

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Feb 11, 2009
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They dont want the hostages back. The hostages are a crutch to justify their genocide of the Palestinians. Isnt it weird that every hostage that has died so far, has died at the hands of the Israelis?

So every time someone says ceasefire - they will say give hostages back and we will ceasefire for 2 weeks after which we will not stop until we eliminate Hamas. But if Hamas is going to be eliminated or the war is going to continue anyway, what is the hostage release for? So Hamas will say no. So they will use that to continue mass murdering Palestinians saying hostages are not being released.

Its just trickery.

The end goal is always the same. To steal land. They will ethnically cleanse Palestinians and genocide them, sacrifice a few 100 Israelis in the process, but in the end establish security checkpoints, walls and settlements. Unless of course people step in and stop Israel, which is the current efforts via protests and what not.
Does Hamas want to return the hostages? You can speculate what Israel wants, but until Hamas says "here are the hostages".... we can all draw up any conclusion and it would still be speculations....the first step to ceasefire is to release the hostages and put the ball in Israel's court what they want to do....somehow I feel like all the Hamas supporters here are so afraid Israel will actually take the hostages and stop the bombing because whatever fantasy they have in their minds that Israel is committing genocide will be thrown out the window....
 

Kautilya

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May 12, 2023
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Does Hamas want to return the hostages? You can speculate what Israel wants, but until Hamas says "here are the hostages".... we can all draw up any conclusion and it would still be speculations....the first step to ceasefire is to release the hostages and put the ball in Israel's court what they want to do....somehow I feel like all the Hamas supporters here are so afraid Israel will actually take the hostages and stop the bombing because whatever fantasy they have in their minds that Israel is committing genocide will be thrown out the window....
Yes, Hamas wants to return hostages, provided they get what they want in return. That is the purpose of taking hostages. Or did you think they took the hostages to serve them some delicious Palestinian food for a few days? 😂
They can say whatever the fuck they say as an "updated version" the fact that they killed civilians contradicts whatever "update" they are claiming....they didn't just kill IDF...they killed civilians and took some hostages...
That is why it is a terror attack. But that has nothing to do with antisemitism as you alleged. They retaliated against the state of Israel via this terror attack, in response to Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians.
 
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richaceg

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Yes, Hamas wants to return hostages, provided they get what they want in return. That is the purpose of taking hostages. Or did you think they took the hostages to serve them some delicious Palestinian food for a few days? 😂

That is why it is a terror attack. But that has nothing to do with antisemitism as you alleged. They retaliated against the state of Israel via this terror attack, in response to Israeli atrocities against the Palestinians.
If Hamas wanted to return hostages, they did so already....for the benefit of Palestinians....seems like what they want is more important than palestinian lives...
 

Kautilya

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If Hamas wanted to return hostages, they did so already....for the benefit of Palestinians....seems like what they want is more important than palestinian lives...
What they want is sovereignty and freedom for the Palestinians. Aka save Palestinian lives for the long term, not just for the short term.
 
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richaceg

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What they want is sovereignty and freedom for the Palestinians. Aka save Palestinian lives for the long term, not just for the short term.
20k deaths for long term what? as long as Israel is a state, Hamas will continue the violence...and Israel will keep retaliating...Why do you think Hezbollah keep attacking Israel? because Jihad ... You said it yourself...they are a terrorist organization...they don't aim for freedom of Palestinians....make up your mind bud...
 

Kautilya

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May 12, 2023
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20k deaths for long term what? as long as Israel is a state, Hamas will continue the violence...and Israel will keep retaliating...Why do you think Hezbollah keep attacking Israel? because Jihad ... You said it yourself...they are a terrorist organization...they don't aim for freedom of Palestinians....make up your mind bud...
A sovereign Palestinian state is the only solution for this conflict. As long as Israel denies it, there is going to be terrorism. And just so you know, what Israel is doing is also terrorism. You dont know what Jihad is so dont just throw that word around.
 
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