I am quite familiar with maps and the region in question.
My comment was born from a frustration that the only way to overcome heathens may be to act like heathens... do you think a few drone strikes here and there will solve the problem?
jordanian pilot
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My comment was born from a frustration that the only way to overcome heathens may be to act like heathens... do you think a few drone strikes here and there will solve the problem?
They will not. and Obama has looked very weak with his selective pinstrikes here and there. I dont know if carpet-bombing is the answer, but clearly these ISIS monsters need to be met with maximum forcedo you think a few drone strikes here and there will solve the problem?
Certainly not. In the meantime, the situation is very profitable for US weapons manufacturers like Raytheon and General Dynamics, since without ground action, the air campaign is going to go on forever and smart bomb and missile stocks need replenishment.I am quite familiar with maps and the region in question.
My comment was born from a frustration that the only way to overcome heathens may be to act like heathens... do you think a few drone strikes here and there will solve the problem?
But those heathens didn't just appear all of a sudden out of nowhere. They are offshoots of the rebels the US and its allies (including Turkey) funded, trained and facilitated to overthrow Assad of Syria.
Saudi Arabia, an Islamic fundamentalist state in its own right and worse than Iran, funded and trained these nut jobs, because they are of the same creed as the ISIS group: Wahhabis/Salafists, who, by the way, have this innate desire to slaughter Shiite Muslims on a grand scale.
George Dubya Bush upset the balance in the ME by overthrowing the secular regime of Saddam Hussein, who was the only credible check against Shiite Iran, and dissolved the Iraqi Army. Then, the majority Shiites took over Iraq and they are now the best of friends with Iran. Saudi Arabia and its parent states in the Gulf now feel threatened by Iran's influence in Arabia and the Levant, and want it and its client state Syria and Hezbollah neutralized. Paying fellow Salafists off to do their dirty work seemed like a good idea at the time, but ISIS does not recognize that the Saudi Monarchy is legitimate, and want to incorporate it into its Khaliphate. Result is major blowback for the US and Saudi Arabia.
If anyone thinks that there cannot be anything worse than the current Iraqi army having run away from advancing ISIS forces, wait until ISIS faces the Saudi Army.
The US broke it. Colin Powel's warning to Bush before the invasion of Iraq: 'You break it, you own it.'
Was the Middle East such a mess when the Brits and the French were in control?The US broke it. Colin Powel's warning to Bush before the invasion of Iraq: 'You break it, you own it.'
It was less messy, but they are the ones that really fucked it up with the Treaty of Versailles!Was the Middle East such a mess when the Brits and the French were in control?
Perry
i hate to disagree with you but it was the US that fucked it up by sticking there nose in suez!It was less messy, but they are the ones that really fucked it up with the Treaty of Versailles!
Perry
I think we should just mind our own business as we are not any better. If something happens here, do other countries jump in and start to drop bombs on us? We settle things now with lawyers and justice system. Many years ago, if I claimed someone of witch craft, the accused would be burned alive. We sit here comfortable in our lazy chairs and turn on CNN and judge how the rest of the world is messed up. They also turn on their TV and watch the western world lives and say how messed up we are. The only difference is that we go there to their to kill and drop bombs, while they just want to be left alone. What if they came over and started to drop bombs and try to force their ideology on us? How would we feel then?
Israel just murdered and Iranian General who was on his way to Syria to assist in the war against IS. So maybe ask them. They LOVE this sort of muslim on muslim crap. You don't think they engage in any destabilization efforts in the muslim world and amongst their enemies?And what the fuck does this have to do with Israel you twit? A bunch of Muslims murdered a Muslim. Another bunch of Muslims blew up a mosque in Pakistan over the weekend. There's a religious war happening between Muslims. There's no side to take, except our side. And like it or not, Canada is on the same side as America and France and GB and Holland, and yes, Israel. And Palestinians? Fuck them! They're on the other side of the fence-with the crazies.
Are you talking about 1956?i hate to disagree with you but it was the US that fucked it up by sticking there nose in suez!
If so, it was already fucked up by that time. Versailles was 1919. And the fucking up was completed by the Treaty of Sèvres which ultimately determined how the Ottoman Empire was carved up, where borders were drawn and who was given which lands, etc.
Perry
You really are full of crap and twist anything and everything to try to pin it on the Israelis and the Jews... and not just now, but you have been doing it on this board for years!They LOVE this sort of muslim on muslim crap. You don't think they engage in any destabilization efforts in the muslim world and amongst their enemies?
Why don't you crawl back under that rock from which you came?
I am not saying that the Israelis are angels but your continuous attempts at demonization are ignorant.
Just saying...
Perry
p.s. You edited your post while I was writing a reply... I gather you saw you went too far!
No, Daesh is working out of Abu Bakr Naji's playbook, "Management of Savagery". It should be recommended reading for every decisionmaker hoping to do more than just make tough-talking soundbites. But, that ain't gonna happen.....They took a barbaric page out of the Bloody Mary playbook....
There is another report today that 50% of ISIS leadership has been killed...
King Abdullah had the bad luck to be in Washington DC when the news about Kassasbeh broke......more than a few public demonstrations over Kassasbeh's death have been critical of the King. The Bararsheh tribe (which the dead pilot belonged to) has called Abdullah a coward & puppet of the US (that's why it wasn't good that he happened to be in the US at this time), for dragging his country and Kassasbeh, personally, into a conflict they feel it has not reason to fight. The UAE is reportedly pulling its flyers OUT of the coalition against Daesh, citing fears for their safety (the pilots), but more likely, they recognize the very strong potential for backlash against their own regime from their own people.ISIS finally fucked up!
King Abdullah is calling the pilot a martyr...and since Jordan has good Intel in the area ISIS leaders should be very worried right now
Tribal leaders in Jordan will rally now
They killed a fellow Muslim so as I said on another thread
time for the gloves to come off
The middle East will NOT follow the rules of engagement and be politically correct in their actions
An Eye for an Eye
If I'm correctly interpreting your comments, that this could go either way in Jordan, and not necessary the way that Canadians & 'Murcans would react, then I think you're on the right track.Isis has killed thousands of Muslims before this- so it won't make much difference outside of jordan. Inside jordan I imagine it will have some impact but we will see what that actually means in terms of the ground offensive
Ditto as above; I think you may be on the right track of understanding this.........Indeed. Idiots in the west seem to wilfully misunderstand and misinterpret everything about ISIS, from absurdly inflating the threat they represent both locally in the middle east and even more laughably, internationally, to suddenly thinking that one murder of a single Muslim will make a fucking difference to anything (ignoring the thousands of Iraqis gruesomely executed, many dozens - hundreds? - in online videos)
Yes, that's right kids.....UNDERSTANDING!!!!! Daesh (and others) have an objective, a strategy, and a looong timeline. PM Harper, just to use an example, wants to win an upcoming election, will characterize anyone disagreeing with his kneejerk reactions as being "soft on terrorism" (so as to win that election), and what, 8 months to do so? Seriously folks, read the above recommendation, or at least anything on insurgency!
"if you know your enemy and know yourself......blah blah blah....... you will be defeated in every battle"
I'm well aware what the Nazis did in Auschwitz and Buchenwald. Performing medical experiments on Jews, starving them, infecting them with diseases....etc. They were evil cunts for sure, but there's no record of them burning prisoners alive.
If you had a choice would you rather be gassed to death or burned alive??
I wouldn't put it past the Nazis if they put live prisoners who were weak but not dead in their incinerators.
Well I am not going really saying Israel is to blame, but like many other players in the region (and I have also mentioned the Saudis and Turks) their busy little fingers and meddling away. So it's not really anti-semitic. Since Syria and Iran are enemies of Israel it is really not surprising they would try to destabilize them. But assuming making your enemies weaker is good policy is a common miscalculation. I think "better the enemy you know" is a better philosophy. But who knows, at this point it is impossible to know what will happen next. It could be that out of the rivers of blood and the eventual defeat of IS something positive could emerge. But that is probably at least a decade away. But the point I was really making, is if some extremist would do such a thing to a child, why are we so shocked that IS would do that to a guy that was dropping bombs on them.You really are full of crap and twist anything and everything to try to pin it on the Israelis and the Jews... and not just now, but you have been doing it on this board for years!
Why don't you crawl back under that rock from which you came?
I am not saying that the Israelis are angels but your continuous attempts at demonization are ignorant.
Just saying...
Perry
p.s. You edited your post while I was writing a reply... I gather you saw you went too far!
S
**Sophie**
I say feed their charred or executed remains to swine.These people are not human.
Until the beginning of WW1, the Levant (Lebanon/Syria) and Arabia were under the control of the Ottoman Empire. The British wanted control of the area in order to secure their transportation routes to India. Plus, Britain had been waging a cold war with Russia (called the Great Game) for over 150 years along Russia's southern borders. So with WW1 and the Turks (Ottomans) siding with Germany, they (Allenby) kicked them out after making alliances with some locals tribes (the Hashmites who now rule Jordan). But then, France wanted it's own piece of the pie also, since they also won WW1 (they actually threatened war with Britain). So a British Foreign Office bureaucrat named Sykes and the French Foreign Minister Picot made a backroom deal to divvy up the Middle East and create new national borders. That was called the Sykes-Picot agreement. It was that agreement that drew the national borders of the Levant and Arabia that we have to this day. Essentially, the French got Syria and the British got Palestine along a line that stretched to Mosul; the British kept Mosul/Baghdad/Basra because of the oil and created Iraq and installed their own puppet, the Hashemite King Faisal, who got bumped off a few years later RIP. In the meantime, the agreement double-crossed the alliances Capt Lawrence (of Arabia) had arranged with the Bedouin tribes who had helped the British oust the Ottomans; instead of ruling over Palestine from the Mediterranean to the Iraqi desert, they got Transjordan, from what became the pre-1967 war Israeli border.Was the Middle East such a mess when the Brits and the French were in control?
The French then split what had been the Ottoman province of Damascus in two, reflecting the religious aspect of the population: Majority Christians in Lebanon, and majority Muslims in Syria. The British got a mandate to rule Palestine by the League of Nations, and would later divide it up to accommodate the European Ashkenazi Jews emigrating to Palestine after WW2. Sephardic Jews had lived in Palestine and much of the Arab world for centuries before, BTW.
Long story short, the borders didn't really reflect the ethnic makeup of the populations. It reflected their Imperial economic spheres of influence. Hence the instability. Plus, the Palestinian problem that remains to this day.
Fast forward 8 decades later, and George Dubya Bush decided to upset the balance of power in the area by invading and destroying the Iraqi state of Sunni Saddam Hussein in 2003, partly because Iraq was the only viable threat to Israel, under the pretext that Saddam has WMD's. Later, after they installed 'democracy', it allowed the majority Shiites to gain control of the government, a Muslim sect that Sunni fundamentalists (including the regime in Saudi Arabia) have a historical hate for. Plus, it allowed the Persian Shiites of Iran to become an important regional power and exert major influence in Arabia through its new fellow Shiite friends in Iraq, and its support for the Alawite/Shiite but secular Assad of Syria, as well as the major Shiite faction in Lebanon: Hezbollah.
So the US wants to unseat Assad because he's friends with Hezbollah and both are major foes of Israel; plus, they are allies of Iran and Israel can't stand an Iran that is a rival to them and the road to Teheran goes through Damascus. The Saudi monarchy, along with its Sunni-Wahhabi clerics hate Shiites, and especially Persian Shiites; that created a convergence of goals between Israel and Saudi Arabia, making them closet allies with the US in the middle. Saudi Arabia, along with it's parent monarchies of Qatar and UAE, funded fellow fundamentalist (Salafist) fighters to fight an insurgency against Assad. Al-Qaida got mixed into it (not surprizing since many of its members and its founder Osama Bin Laden, are Saudis), and other extremist groups got into the picture like Jabhat Al-Nusra (There are now reports that Israel is now cooperating with Jabhat Al-Nusra in Syria in order to counter Hezbollah and Iranian measures to defend Assad). Pretty soon, Saudi control of the Syrian Jihadists was lost (the Saudis only know to throw money at a problem) and ISIS was formed with the view of creating a new state based on fundamentalist Muslim practice of the 18th century: a Khaliphate. They rapidly expanded their areas of control, beyond Syria and into Shiite controlled Iraq, and at one point actually threatened Baghdad.
Turkey has it's own goals. It has been facilitating the transit of every kind of rebel and insurgent across its borders with Syria. But their agenda is to control Syria after the ouster of Assad, just like their Ottoman predecessors ruled before WW1. They want to install their own puppet in his place, even if they have to put up with Jihadists hell bent on decapitating every Shiite they can lay their hands on.
So there. Middle East history the way I see it, in a nutshell.
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If you 're talking about 1956, the US were very much against the joint Israeli/British/French operation to sieze the Suez Canal from Egypt after Nasser nationalized it. The British dropped out after President Eisenhower threatened to crash the British pound.i hate to disagree with you but it was the US that fucked it up by sticking there nose in suez!
Actually, there are records of the SS locking Jews in barns and setting them on fire.I wouldn't put it past the Nazis if they put live prisoners who were weak but not dead in their incinerators.
It's impossible to know because US foreign policy is run by a bunch of clowns.But who knows, at this point it is impossible to know what will happen next. It could be that out of the rivers of blood and the eventual defeat of IS something positive could emerge.
The creation of ISIS and their invasion of Western Iraq represents a major intelligence failure and a major policy blunder.
Despite spending Billions of dollars every year to operate their intelligence and surveillance operations, they failed to anticipate the rise of ISIS, its invasion of Iraq, and the creation of a major antagonist in the region.
It was not so long ago that the US was fighting insurgents in Anbar Province at great cost. Now, that is all for nothing as ISIS rules the area with an iron fist.
