Another sad sack racist diatribe. But said with the confidence of someone completely in the dark.
I don't dispute I am in the dark. Maybe more in the shadows? I'm just expressing my opinions based on my personal experiences and what I've gathered..
![Man shrugging :man_shrugging: 🤷♂️](https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/joypixels/emoji-assets@5.0/png/64/1f937-2642.png)
Another sad sack racist diatribe. But said with the confidence of someone completely in the dark.
You were actually able to write a “some of my best friends are…..” post without any sense of how idiotic and racist it is? I grew up listening to these kinds of messages about Black and Brown people. They always looked like morons when they did it. Guess what? They were.
I dont think you were intending to say anything racist. But reading back on your posts and Klatuu's and Frank's criticism, I think the objection is to you conflating Islamic fundamentalism with Islam and the Palestinians. Generally, speaking the following are true:Tell me exactly what is wrong, racist or idiotic with me saying what background my friends are? Especially when they are telling ME what they feel about something that I would otherwise have no knowledge of. Are you dismissing my personal experience in making my contribution to a discussion? Am I allowed to tell or ask anyone about what my online acquaintance Klatuu says about Palestine or Israel?
If I'm not allowed to mix with or have friends of other skin colours and cultures then I am not going to have anyone to talk to about anything.
So please excuse me for a few months while I read your entire posting history. Then once enlightened I can re-enter the conversation after I have learned the Revealed Truth by Klatuu.
Well, these may have been your personal interactions. However, I have personally interacted with many Israeli friends, who have expressed such views, and infact coming from a very pro-Israeli country, I was infact surprised, disappointed and taken aback by such attitudes, especially because these guys are all educated, well off and heck, they are normal family men.
So personal anecdotes in my opinion may be useful in forming some views, but they do not entirely reflect social values as the sample size is far too small and at the end of the day, we need to treat individuals as individuals and not as representatives of states or cultures, after all.
However I think people like Gideon Levy, an award winning Israeli journalist, are qualified, in providing some commentary about how Israeli society is:
I also realized a few days ago just thinking about this that, throughout history, the most uncivilized acts of violence, oppression and injustice have ALWAYS originated, in the most "civilized" places. Be it the holocaust, or colonialism, the inquisition, or whatever else. Wonder how that works (Basically the powerful oppress the weak).
The PA is good. Hamas is bad. PA is the internationally recognized representatives of the Palestinians. Infact, if after all this slaughter, Israel is infact successful in restoring PA's rule in Gaza, that would be a step in the right direction. Will Bibi let it happen? Because he wanted Hamas to be in power in Gaza, so he could delegitimize Palestinian statehood.
I think you are also conflating Israeli Arabs (who are also Palestinian) with the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Isareli Arabs generally are better off by virtue of living in Israel but do face systemic racism in Israel.
But if you were Palestinian in the West Bank or Gaza, you definitely do not want life to be governed by Israelis. Even in the West Bank where things are supposedly peaceful, those Palestinians are subjected to apartheid, unlawful detentions, extreme restrictions on life and movement, evictions, settler terrorism - you name it. Check out Bt'Selem's YouTube page, where they document via video. Bt'Selem is an Israeli activist non-profit established in 1989, by Israeli doctors, lawyers and public intellectuals to document human rights violations in the West Bank.
I dont think you were intending to say anything racist. But reading back on your posts and Klatuu's and Frank's criticism, I think the objection is to you conflating Islamic fundamentalism with Islam and the Palestinians. Generally, speaking the following are true:
Hamas are Palestinians. Palestinians are not Hamas.
Some terrorists are Muslim. Muslims are not terrorists.
Islamic Fundamentalists believe in Islam. Muslims who believe in Islam are however, not fundamentalists.
I think these distinctions need to be made, but did not necessarily come through in your posts. So in that light one could say the YouTube short of Hitchens, was not entirely relevant to this topic.
Anyway, I am just trying to explain the "why" behind Klatuu and Frank's criticism.
Absolutely.But prejudice works both ways. Many people are spring loaded to be offended if you don't expressly agree with their point, or world view.
Exactly! Both are just as unrelenting and unaccommodating as each other. Heck our TERB members (including myself) who have nothing to do with either peoples, are unrelenting, so just imagine the Israelis and the Palestinians!I really don't know what to make of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Least of all have a single atom of thought towards any solution. I think if a perfect paradise of land was found, built to "Cadillac" standards, with a fully stocked fridge and caverns of gold, neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians would say "Thanks, let us just pack our suitcases and let's go!"
Absolutely.
Exactly! Both are just as unrelenting and unaccommodating as each other. Heck our TERB members (including myself) who have nothing to do with either peoples, are unrelenting, so just imagine the Israelis and the Palestinians!![]()
Just read through the history of how Israel was formed, the justifications and tactics used, how they have treated the Palestinians etc., I posted several documentaries of it on these threads.And yet, I'm still waffling from day-to-day over my feelings on the Israeli-Palestinian issue. I love to be convinced to change my mind. Yet, I hate to be bullshitted or tried to be played.
You didn't comment on the video I posted. You just used it to tee off on. You still haven't. You still just used it as springboard to go off further on your narrative.
It's almost like he doesn't even read what is posted here, he just posts some drivel from twitter. His talking points have been countered over and over and he keeps going on about it.
I don't think he is a bot, but at his point he might as well program one up
He is the Serdar Argic of Terb. Much like Serdar he is pro genocide only Sedar had a hardon for killing Armenians.
Also at least Serdar was kinda funny and creative with his insults so there was some value to his posting. I think one of the most famous this is obviously a bot moments was when someone posted a Greek recipe for turkey and as it mentioned Turkey, he responded with absolutely no food based content.
I wonder...
Your posts, by and large, have the opposite effect that I think you want them to have. You are almost rabid and seem to be far past being able to have a reasonable discussion with.
Despite your counter-productive narrative, I do feel horribly for the Palestinian people.
I don't, they seem to be very pro Hamas and the terror they do and very pro extermination of the Jews and the genocidal river to sea Progrom [spelling intentional] of Hamas and their other terrorist allies.
But the more I read from Fankie and pals, my fucks to give get even lower and lower. Those people are just getting what they give out. Likewise when people bitch about Bomber Command and the 8th AF and what they did to germany, I have 0 fucks to give, nor the submarine blockaid and fire bombings in Japan [which killed more than the A bombs did BTW]. Oh you want me to care. Rape of Nanking, unit 731, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Alls_policy so nope, no fucks to give. As I sarcastically pointed out, to use Frankfooters "logic" we were the bad guys because we were much more effective at killing their civilians than they were at ours.
Yes, this is what I feel too.My comments in blue
I sarcastically pointed out, to use Frankfooters "logic" we were the bad guys because we were much more effective at killing their civilians than they were at ours.
Thanks, I will have a look at them and see if they hold my ADD interest.Just read through the history of how Israel was formed, the justifications and tactics used, how they have treated the Palestinians etc., I posted several documentaries of it on these threads.
From my side which is pro-Palestinian, and I say that explicitly, so you know am not trying to play you lol, here are a few documentaries you can watch.
This is a good documentary on Israel's formation:
This is a good documentary on the apartheid conditions in the West Bank:
This is an Israeli documentary on the subject of Nakba - the 1948 ethnic cleansing, but it only deals with the Tantura Massacre.
Another video on the 1948 Nakba. There are several parts to this interview, but this is Part 1. You can follow along to Part 2 from YouTube. Ilan Pappe is an Israeli historian and an anti-Zionist.
Here is the al-jazeera recent documentary on October 7, because there has been a lot of propaganda:
If you find documentaries or articles or videos refuting these, let me know and I will give it a watch and respond.
It’s Israel that supplies most of the explosives that Hamas uses.
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Much of Hamas’s explosives comes from IDF fire that failed to detonate — report
New York Times says terrorists in Gaza cut open Israeli-fired duds to create rockets; theft from IDF is also major source of weaponswww.timesofisrael.com
I'll back you up here, your post was in reply to my question.Tell me exactly what is wrong, racist or idiotic with me saying what background my friends are?
Especially in light of Frank suggesting that I don't know any Palestinians.
Especially when they are telling ME what they feel about something that I would otherwise have no knowledge of.
Are you dismissing my personal experience in making my contribution to a discussion? Am I allowed to tell or ask anyone about what my online acquaintance Klatuu says about Palestine or Israel?
If I'm not allowed to mix with or have friends of other skin colours and cultures then I am not going to have anyone to talk to about anything. And I'll have to cut out a lot of friends from my life. Or notshareappropriate their music and culture! Fuck... and I really liked shawarmas! Gefilte fish I can live without... please. But what about EYE-talians? They're white but two generations ago they were considered the Mexican's and people from Shit Hole countries of the US and right wing Canada. Will it be kosher if I eat pizza?
So please excuse me for a few months while I read your entire posting history. Then once enlightened I can re-enter the conversation after I have learned the Revealed Truth by Klatuu.
You haven't been reading these threads, have you?But one thing I have never detected from jewish people is hatred towards anyone. Nor any sense of inhumanity. Despite what I understand was their own history of being treated as sub-humans by many, including Palestinians in the past couple thousand tears anf Germans in modern history. And right-wing racists in 2024. Their anger towards Palestinians is certainly there. And IMO, a natural and justified response to the extremist Palestinians who are carrying out the terror du jour menu. Hijacking airliners to suicide bombers to home made missile attacks, and the Oct 6-7 thing. etc etc.
The UN, Amnesty, HRW and B'tselem have reported three levels of apartheid in Israel, from 'Israeli Arabs' to those in Jerusalem to those living as stateless refugees under Israeli military occupation. You just argued that Palestinians can and will live happier lives if they had even mostly full human rights as 'Israeli Arabs' do. Instead Netanyahu funded Hamas for years in order to divide Palestinians and keep them from working towards the two state solution and peace. In 2014 Palestinians in Gaza protested at the borders every Friday for almost a year and were met each week by Israeli snipers, killing 200 and injuring 14,000. There has not been an avenue for Palestinians to settle peacefully for half a century now, instead there have been 800 attacks by settlers outside of Gaza since Oct 7.As I understand it, Palestinian people were and are accepted into society in Israel, far more than they are in fellow Arab countries. And for the most part, were happy to live under what some call Israeli "oppression" and others call "effective modern democratic governance". There are buses, water, electricity etc under Israeli governance. Hamas and the PA are pretty effective at making efficient use of foreign (Iranian) aid for creating tunnels, missiles and weapon... not so much with water and sewers.
Sigh, you finished with an antisemitic trope.If I'm a a Palestinian (even muslim), I'd rather live a life governed by (even jewish) Israelis. I hear they're pretty good with managing money too![]()
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I did mention the video, I'll discuss it again.You didn't comment on the video I posted. You just used it to tee off on. You still haven't. You still just used it as springboard to go off further on your narrative.
No, I do believe that you are trying to figure things out. I'm just trying to point out that you are coming from a place that already has considerable bias towards Israelis and zionists.And you make assumptions of me and my motives, bias' etc that I don't even know because I'm still trying to figure the whole thing out.
I don't remember that story but glad to hear you are open to change.If you recall the thread about the guy in the BMW charged wtih murder of the police officer, you might recall me at one point saying, no matter how hard I am trying to comprehend the facts and testimony, not only do I still not understand it, I am more confused than when I started. That's because the cops were shading their testimony to obscure and excuse the behaviour and actions that precipitated the entire chain of events.
And once the objective facts of the physical evidence came into play, then I came to my personal conclusion that the driver was legitimately scared and instinctively fleeing, that the three on-scene police officers colluded in their note making and testimony, also likely did not approach nor handle the scene and situation approriately and their conduct was the proximate cause of Officer Northrup's death, and that the Crown et al were complicit in railroading a man and his family with an improper, political, purpose.
Fuck off with S
On what specific point? The argument that since one Muslim leader 150 years ago was racist and hate filled that you think all Palestinians today are also? Again, that's like posting a video about Hitler in a thread about Germans attitudes and saying 'discuss'. I can find one or more hateful quote from Israeli leaders for every Palestinian/Hamas quote you find, but its not helpful towards discussing solutions.top that already! I didn't post it with any intention EXCEPT for comments on that particular 60 second Short. I don't agree with nor support Netanyahu. But I also hate fucking mushroom soup. Doesn't oblige me to be "fair and balanced" and pre-address direct or adjacent implications that might be imputed by hundreds of TERBites.
I expected comments and even opinion explaining pro and anti positions. ON THAT SPECIFIC POINT.
I can slosh through 800 pages of xitter re-posts myself. I didn't know anything about the Tripoli coast, Barbary pirates, American slaves, least of all it havig anything to do with Islam. Nor being permitted by the Koran under some infidel rule. Guys like @mandrill and @NotADcotor who are history buffs provide some relevant information.
Start with this.I am still trying to figure out a much more complex situation, that greater minds than all of ours combined have not been able to.
But if you're Palestinian and living under a 75 year occupation, inside a 17 year blockade in Gaza and watching settlers take Palestinian land by force throughout the year, what do you?Your posts, by and large, have the opposite effect that I think you want them to have. You are almost rabid and seem to be far past being able to have a reasonable discussion with.
Despite your counter-productive narrative, I do feel horribly for the Palestinian people. Even the Hamas terrorists. I can only try to imagine the rage and hatred bred and indoctrinated into me such that I would derive pleasure from killing anyone and genuinely look forward to being killed, as a martyr, myself! What a horrific life to experience. Never mind the reasons behind it.
I feel the same for Russians, and conscripted Russian soldiers.
But if I'm a Ukrainian living in my home and Putin sends them to blow up my house, rape my mother and re-claim this cpuntry as their ancestral homeland... they're going to have a helluva fight on their hands.
Again, if you are using the Russian metaphor, use it correctly.Same if my cousin is at a music festival and gets shot in a port-a-potty, raped and kidnapped by a bunch of fanatics directed by Hamas leaders living in luxury in aa safe third country, fucking right I'm going to raze every building to find every last one of them. Even though I know for every one I kill, I'm creating another that will ripen in 15 years. I gotta do what I gotta do, now.
And if Palestinians and Russians want to keep killing themselves at a ratio of 1 to 5 or 10, to win back what they feel is their ancestral rights, then that's their choice for this life. Stupid fucks sacrificing their lives for some ideology that is self-defeating.
Likewise, I've always enjoyed our discussions and debates on other subjects.And you don't know anywhere near enough about me or my friends or our relationships and what we feel comfortable talking about to say anything that doesn't demonstrate how Trumptard-like you have become when it comes to this issue. You couldn't be more wrong. Any more wrong than how I felt you and I had some kindred spirit. Your thoughts and words you express towards me suggest we don't. And that saddens me. Soory to say but you're acting like the Nottyboi of Palestine!![]()
I'm surprised you just found this out.What I realized was that we dont really have any authority or organization that can make any country do anything.
Never had a reason to give it that much thought to be honest, until this conflict.I'm surprised you just found this out.