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Israel at war

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Butler1000

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Valcazar said:
Sure, which is why I occasionally check them and other analysis out.
This analogy was ok, he didn't embarrass himself.

But mostly when I have been directed their way, they've been mediocre.



You think the way I treat you on an escort board is the way I interact with people in real life?



"Refusal to consider change is possible"? LOL
Amazing.



Go on.
Elaborate your thesis.
This is usually the part where you say "magic ponies and revolution", isn't it?

You're not under some kind of delusion that I think these protests aren't real and significant, are you?

As for that last sentence, we've talked about your red-brown alliance ideas before and their historical track record.




Dude.
You're someone who has argued that committing war crimes against Palestinians is both good and correct.

Also, are you under the impression I am against the protests and on the side of the universities here?
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My clear opinion has always been this. I do not believe there will be a One State solution. I do not believe there will be a Two State solution. I do not believe there can be a brokered long lasting peace agreement.

There will only be a winner, and a loser. So If I have to pick between the two sides, I pick Israel for long term peace with neighbours in the region as they have already proven to be able to make treaties last and broker more. Remember this war was started to prevent the Saudi peace deal.

The Palestinians have only continued to embrace terror, assassination of state heads, and constant war. They won't stop.

See above for the rest. Stop listening to paid govt shills and pundits, and understand how people on the ground actually think. And live day to day.
 
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Valcazar

Valcazar

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Frankfooter said:
What plan do you think would work better towards those same goals then, valcazar?
Clearly you must think there is a better strategy that you have yet to share.
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Than voting in Trump?
Yes.
Not doing that.
That's a better strategy.

Straw man.
Of course you can be different but no better.
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That's not what I asked.
Do you honestly think that "no better" is the only option if someone is different?
 
Valcazar

Valcazar

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Butler1000 said:
My clear opinion has always been this. I do not believe there will be a One State solution. I do not believe there will be a Two State solution. I do not believe there can be a brokered long lasting peace agreement.

There will only be a winner, and a loser. So If I have to pick between the two sides, I pick Israel for long term peace with neighbours in the region as they have already proven to be able to make treaties last and broker more. Remember this war was started to prevent the Saudi peace deal.

The Palestinians have only continued to embrace terror, assassination of state heads, and constant war. They won't stop.
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I do appreciate that you articulate your pro-genocide/pro-ethnic cleansing position so clearly.

See above for the rest. Stop listening to paid govt shills and pundits, and understand how people on the ground actually think. And live day to day.
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It sometimes amazes me that you are so close to getting it - see your response to Kautilya - and yet come up with what you do.
 
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Butler1000

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Valcazar said:
I do appreciate that you articulate your pro-genocide/pro-ethnic cleansing position so clearly.



It sometimes amazes me that you are so close to getting it - see your response to Kautilya - and yet come up with what you do.
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If neither side will give, what's the solution. No waffling. Lay it out or stop yapping.

And again with the faked up superiority complex to hide a lack of real thinking. Its a tired old thing.
 
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Frankfooter

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Valcazar said:
Than voting in Trump?
Yes.
Not doing that.
That's a better strategy.
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Based on what rationale?
Your feelies?

That's not what I asked.
Do you honestly think that "no better" is the only option if someone is different?
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I think this genocide will be over before the election.
Are you arguing that electing rump means he will coerce Netanyahu or Ben Gvir or whoever is leading Israel in November to commit a far worse genocide?
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
People opposed to this particular war, are against it because it is a genocide. The protestors are worried about the Palestinians and the oppression, apartheid and genocide they are suffering. Many protestors are infact Palestinians, or are from Muslim nations, or are anti-Zionist Jewish people who feel personally about this.

When it comes to money the opposition is two fold.

A) The money comes from lobby groups like AIPAC that control and manipulate our governments in favour of a foreign state.
B) Consequently our governments not only help Israel at forums such as the UN by vetoing anything harmful to Israel, but also send billions in aid that is being used against the Palestinians.

So again, the call is to help Palestinians. It is however not a demand for that money to be used here instead for better social services. That is something the protestors may agree with if you ask them, but that is not what is in their minds when they go out there to protest, and it is not why they protest.

There are of course some far right wing individuals who also support Palestinians, but they don't hold any love for the Palestinians. They just hate Jews more. So we can disregard them as they are in the fringe minority.

I believe yours is an incorrect characterization of the motives of the protestors because you have conflated your own motives, with that of the protestors. If you talked to anyone who is pro-Palestinian the last thing you will hear from them is their worry that the govt. is not providing social services.
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Your social media feed algorithms are feeding you what you want to hear. There is an entire right wing anti war population that don't give a rat's ass about Israel or the Palestinians.

Go ahead. Try a search. See what comes up.
 
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Frankfooter

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Butler1000 said:
Your social media feed algorithms are feeding you what you want to hear. There is an entire right wing anti war population that don't give a rat's ass about Israel or the Palestinians.

Go ahead. Try a search. See what comes up.
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Ah yes, the white supremacist, libertarian wing of MAGA.
The boogaloo bois that will lead the US through revolution to shangri la.

The vast majority of protest for Palestinians have been the mainstream and liberals.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784721046270038266

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784226784176660984

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1782743558811697179

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1784725255405109439
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
Yes. I know there is a right wing anti-war group - and that is what I mentioned in my first response to you. They are the same ones who do not want the US to give aid to Ukraine. But they also support Russia which is why we dont take them seriously either.
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You will find lots of centrists and more opposed to all military aid. And don't care about any of the sides. That's isolationism. You don't get to over 60% anti war without a significant portion of GOP viters. And more than you think.
 
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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
Well, isolationism is more than aid. But regardless of that, I dont understand what 60% anti-war means. Was there a poll where 60% of those polled did not want war? Because not wanting war is also different from being anti-war. I dont want war either. But sometimes I agree war is necessary, and in many other cases, inevitable. Anti-war is that we should not act even to help, regardless of what happens in another country and that is not what most people advocate for.
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Polling shows over 60 do not support what's going on in Israel. You don't get there without the GOP voters. As well remember who was against sending military aid to Israel in Congress and who voted for it. Polling for sending aid to Ukraine is also steadily dropping.

The Average US citizen does not want to pay for foreign wars anymore. For varying reasons.
 
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