Israel at war

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
77,521
93,036
113



The Hamas attacks on Israel on October 7, 2023, were by far the most deadly terrorist attack in the country’s history, and the resulting war is one of the most devastating to Palestinians, with over 15,000 dead so far, a number that will surely rise further as Israel tries to destroy Hamas completely. Why did Hamas attack when it knew that the consequences for it and the Palestinian people would be so deadly? From the statements of Hamas leaders, reporting drawing on documents captured from Hamas fighters, and Hamas’s long track record, some answers can be gleaned.


One of Hamas’s goals was simply to kill Israelis—many of them. The Washington Post reported that instructions found on dead Hamas fighters included, “Kill as many people and take as many hostages as possible.” Among other weapons, Hamas also equipped its fighters with thermobaric grenades, which can quickly cause massive fires in a home. The fighters also had enough ammunition and food to keep going into Israel if they were able to do so, as well as maps, suggesting an even higher death toll was possible.


Indeed, part of what Hamas wanted involved revenge for what it saw as past Israeli attacks and the constant Israeli occupation of the West Bank, arrest of Hamas leaders, isolation, and bombing of Gaza. Until October 7, most Israelis could live their lives believing that Hamas’s situation and that of other Palestinians mattered little to them on a day-to-day basis. No longer.


Yet Hamas’s hatred of Israel is a constant, and it does not explain Hamas’s decision to strike on October 7 and not before. Part of the explanation may be that what Hamas saw as its gestures toward moderation before the October 7 attacks brought it few rewards. Hamas publicly rebranded in 2017, releasing an updated charter in which the group signaled its acceptance of a two-state solution as an appropriate temporary measure. The charter still contained many hateful and bellicose components, but it was a change from the group’s 1988 founding statement, which fundamentally rejected any accommodation with Israel.


Some Israelis and outside analysts had come to believe that serving as Gaza’s governing body for nearly two decades had moderated the group’s stance on the conflict and resistance to Israel, with the group accepting that a massive assault would be counterproductive. On the surface, at least, Hamas seemed to back up this perceived change with actions. Before October 7, the group not only limited its own rocket attacks on Israel but also publicly punished those who instigated attacks within Gaza to break the fragile ceasefires. Hamas has let the Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) fight Israel alone, not joining the fray between Israel and the PIJ in August 2022 or in May 2023.


Was this strategy just a front while the group planned the October 7 attack? Perhaps. But Israel and the international community did not make a major shift in their policies in response to Hamas’s moderation. There were limited economic concessions and statements acknowledging Hamas’s role in governing Gaza. At the same time, there was incendiary far-right political rhetoric and rising levels of violence against Palestinians. Both 2021 and 2022 set records as the deadliest years for Palestinians, as the Netanyahu government green-lit the expansion of settlements in the West Bank and settlers themselves conducted pogroms against Palestinians.
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
77,521
93,036
113
The Israeli government also made clear its disdain for Hamas. Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu ripped up Hamas’s revised charter in front of the camera, advocated for the defunding of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA), and gave a platform to far-right ideologues such as Bezalel Smotrich. This lack of incentives for moderation probably increased the attraction of a large-scale attack. This reality was reflected in Hamas official Basem Naim’s interview after the October 7 attack, where he stated “We knew there was going to be a violent reaction. . . . But we didn’t choose this road while having other options. We have no options.”


Hamas leaders may have believed they were losing popular support in Gaza. Since the implementation of a semipermanent siege on Gaza in 2007, Israel has controlled much of the electricity, food, and water to the enclave. Gaza has spent half of its day without power since 2019, with a sustained gap in electricity supply. Gaza has also suffered from chronic water shortages, with its outdated or destroyed water infrastructure, 97 percent of the water in Gazan homes is unfit to drink. The economic situation is equally dire, with over 70 percent of families in Gaza dependent on NGO and international aid for their basic needs. Unable to guarantee basic necessities for its citizens, let alone dent the consistent 45 percent unemployment rate in Gaza, Hamas lacks ability to maintain its popular support through government services and improved quality of life.


On the other side of Hamas’s claims to legitimacy, the presence of groups like the Palestinian Islamic Jihad in Gaza, which continue the fight, raised the question Hamas’s credibility as an Islamist resistance organization. With dropping public support, and without a path to improve or maintain their image in Gaza through governance, Hamas instead attempted to amplify its revolutionary credentials, both among Palestinians and globally, by carrying out a large-scale attack.


Hamas probably hoped to exploit Israel’s response to increase its popularity. Khaled Mashal, one of its political leaders, noted, “We know very well the consequences of our operation on October 7 . . . No nation is liberated without sacrifices.” Another Hamas leader noted two weeks after the attacks, “We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”


Using a state’s heavy-handed response against it is a classic insurgent tactic: many Gazans might not like Hamas, but when confronted with a choice between supporting the group or endorsing Israeli military operations, they will rally to its cause. Hamas in the past has shown its willingness to have Gazans suffer to advance its interests, and it colocates its military assets next to hospitals, schools, and mosques, including placing a command node under one of Gaza’s biggest hospitals, according to a U.S. official. When civilian infrastructure is destroyed and thousands of Gazans killed, Hamas’s resulting message is one of Israeli barbarity, not its own culpability.


If Hamas increased its own credibility, it also undermined that of its rival, the Palestinian Authority (PA), which rules on the West Bank. The PA leader, Mahmoud Abbas, has long favored negotiation and cooperation with Israel, a position already strained before October 7 but now even more discredited as Palestinians view the devastating Israeli response. This bolsters Hamas’s claim to be the leader of the Palestinian national movement not just in Gaza but also in the West Bank and among the Palestinian diaspora. Indeed, Abbas is an 88-year old chain smoker in poor health, and his succession may be contested: there is no clear replacement. Hamas is bolstering its credentials at a time when rival leaders are in disarray.


Hamas also seeks to change the regional environment, as does its sponsor Iran. Tehran funds, arms, and trains Hamas, although Iran’s responsibility for the specifics of October 7 are unclear. Before the attacks, the region was abuzz with the possibility of an Israeli-Saudi normalization, and Iran’s support for the Syrian regime’s brutalization of its own people had discredited it among many Arabs. Now normalization is off the table, perhaps for good, and the region is focusing on Israel, not on the Syrian civil war. Instead of Iran being isolated in the Arab world, Arab publics at least admire its firm stance against Israel and support for Palestinian resistance. For both Hamas and Iran, having the focus be on Israeli attacks on Palestinians, not on the Syrian civil war or Israeli normalization, is a win for their cause.


Will Hamas achieve its objectives? The regional discourse has already changed in the group’s favor, and for now its credibility is restored among many Palestinians. Hamas, however, has rolled the dice. Israeli operations, both present and future, are a threat to the group’s leadership and control of Gaza. And even if Hamas proves successful, the Palestinian people are paying a massive price.


Daniel Byman is a senior fellow with the Transnational Threats Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) in Washington, D.C., and a professor at Georgetown University. Mackenzie Holtz is a former intern with the International Security Program at CSIS.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,091
23,045
113
Frank keeps doing the cluck. Cluck. Cluck.

You've spend 1,000 pages giving your opinion. Now you're shy.

According to Hamas, 25,000 Palestinians have died since the Oct. 7 attack. Do you think that attack was a smart move? There is no answer that is right or wrong. It's just your opinion.
Do you think genocide was a smart move if it means the end of zionism?
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,091
23,045
113
That article is a month old.

Hamas said why they attacked.
You won't believe them.

You will only believe Israelis.

.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
93,091
23,045
113
Israel targets civilians.
So they are terrorists.
They pay their own terrorists.

They pay settler terrorists.
They pay the IDF that back up the settler terrrorists.

Its all the same tactic, if you use the word 'terrorist' therefore you can do whatever you want, all war crimes and crimes against humanity become justified. All according to the GWOT tactics.
 

Darts

Well-known member
Jan 15, 2017
23,023
11,259
113
Too many posts to read them all. Apologies if this has been said already.

Israel is getting some intelligence from freed hostages. They were held in some of the many tunnels. Aren't those tunnels "bombproof"?
 

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
77,521
93,036
113
You don't think Palestinians are allowed to build tunnels in Gaza?
Why?

Israel is attacking hospitals again.
Hamas shouldn't hide arms and tunnel entrances in hospitals. There's actually no point in doing that now, anyway. The ICJ just shrugged and laughed. The western media covers it less and less. And the IDF will blow that shit up in any event.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Conil

mandrill

Well-known member
Aug 23, 2001
77,521
93,036
113
U.S. suspends UNRWA funding after allegations that 12 staff took part in Oct. 7 attack (msn.com)


The United States is suspending additional funding to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East temporarily as it reviews charges that 12 UNRWA employees took part in Hamas’s Oct. 7 terror attack on Israel.

“The United States is extremely troubled by the allegations,” stated Matthew Miller, the U.S. State Department spokesman. Miller added that the United States is reviewing “the steps the United Nations is taking to address them.”


U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken spoke with António Guterres, UN secretary-general, on Jan. 25 “to emphasize the necessity of a thorough and swift investigation of this matter,” Miller stated on Friday.

“We welcome the decision to conduct such an investigation and Secretary General Guterres’s pledge to take decisive action to respond, should the allegations prove accurate,” Miller said. “We also welcome the UN’s announcement of a ‘comprehensive and independent’ review of UNRWA.”

“There must be complete accountability for anyone who participated in the heinous attacks of Oct. 7,” he added.

Washington has also contacted the Israeli government “to seek more information about these allegations” and has briefed members of Congress. “We will remain in close contact with the United Nations and government of Israel regarding this matter,” Miller said.

He added that UNRWA “plays a critical role in providing lifesaving assistance to Palestinians, including essential food, medicine, shelter and other vital humanitarian support.”

UNRWA has long been accused of antisemitism, including that its teachers glorify Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack, that aid id passing through its hands to Hamas, and that Hamas terrorists hide in its schools.

“The Israeli authorities have provided UNRWA with information about the alleged involvement of several UNRWA employees in the horrific attacks on Israel on Oct. 7,” stated Philippe Lazzarini, UNRWA commissioner-general.

“To protect the agency’s ability to deliver humanitarian assistance, I have taken the decision to immediately terminate the contracts of these staff members and launch an investigation in order to establish the truth without delay,” Lazzarini said. “Any UNRWA employee who was involved in acts of terror will be held accountable, including through criminal prosecution.”


“UNRWA reiterates its condemnation in the strongest possible terms of the abhorrent attacks of Oct. 7 and calls for the immediate and unconditional release of all Israeli hostages and their safe return to their families,” he added. “These shocking allegations come as more than two million people in Gaza depend on lifesaving assistance that the agency has been providing since the war began. Anyone who betrays the fundamental values of the United Nations also betrays those whom we serve in Gaza, across the region and elsewhere around the world.”
 

Conil

Well-known member
Apr 12, 2013
4,207
1,167
113
Temporarily suspends ? UN is trash.

Biden regime ‘temporarily pauses’ UNRWA funding over charge that 12 UNRWA employees participated in Oct. 7 massacre


The United States is extremely troubled by the allegations that twelve UNRWA employees may have been involved in the October 7 Hamas terrorist attack on Israel. The Department of State has temporarily paused additional funding for UNRWA while we review these allegations and the steps the United Nations is taking to address them.

Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken spoke with United Nations Secretary General Antonio Guterres on January 25 to emphasize the necessity of a thorough and swift investigation of this matter. We welcome the decision to conduct such an investigation and Secretary General Guterres’ pledge to take decisive action to respond, should the allegations prove accurate. We also welcome the UN’s announcement of a “comprehensive and independent” review of UNRWA. There must be complete accountability for anyone who participated in the heinous attacks of October 7.

UNRWA plays a critical role in providing lifesaving assistance to Palestinians, including essential food, medicine, shelter, and other vital humanitarian support. Their work has saved lives, and it is important that UNRWA address these allegations and take any appropriate corrective measures, including reviewing its existing policies and procedures.

The United States has reached out to the Government of Israel to seek more information about these allegations, and we have briefed Members of Congress. We will remain in close contact with the United Nations and Government of Israel regarding this matter.

 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts