Israel at war

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Frankfooter

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xmontrealer said:
Frankfooter, I wasn't asking for your real name, email address, home address, birth date, SIN, or phone number. Just trying to see if you may have any inherent bias due to your personal background and relationships.

As to an endgame, I don't see any possibility for peace in the Middle East as long as most Muslim children in the Middle East are taught to hate Jews as soon as they are able to understand the concept.

Only by the recognition of all Arab countries of Israel's right to exist in peace as a fundamentally Jewish state can any peaceful and stable 2 state solution be found to the Palestinian issue. And it will be many generations before that is even possible, given the deeply rooted hatred that is ingrained in current generations of most Muslims in the region. I honestly believe that if Israel could trust the Arab states, and a new official Palestinian state, to not try to harm, attack or destroy Israel, there could be a lasting peace in the region. I absolutely believe that the vast majority of Israeli Jews could put the past behind them and and show no aggression towards other Arab states if that were the case.

It behooves me to ask you what it might take for Israel to trust that the Arab nations will not try to destroy Israel, before Israel can afford to let its guard down completely.

That notwithstanding, there will always be an Israel, as the United States will not allow that part of the world to have no strong American ally.
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I'm sorry, xmontrealer, but that post is based on your own racist views.
Your views that the Arab world teaches hatred of Jews is itself a form of hate speech.

If you want peace with the surrounding countries its Israel that has to change. Israel needs to deal with the Palestinian refugee issue, where the countries around are hosting 5 million Palestinian refugees and Israel needs to return occupied land to Syria and Lebanon. Then they need to give Palestinians equal rights or a full Palestinian nation based on the 1967 borders without land swaps.

That is the way to peace, not demanding Arab nations declare whether a nation has a right to exist, that is an imaginary right. Rights are for humans, not countries. And that includes Palestinians, who, if you aren't aware, are human.
 
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Frankfooter

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shack said:
Oh. Is the conflict over? How many IDF have died? How many Hamas have died?

I asked who WILL pay the bigger price. Just to help you, it means when the conflict is over. At this point, it is far from over.
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How big should the disproportionate response be, shack?
There have sadly been 1000 Israelis killed so far and equally as sadly a few more Palestinians.

Usually Israel kills 10x, so you do you think Israel needs to kill another 9-10,000 Palestinians or is this a special case and do you need to kill more to really teach them a lesson?

You should have a head start soon, with all the water, food and electricity gone all the hospitals are about lose all patients on machines.
So you will get the death of 200 newborns on ventilators and 1100 dialysis patients.

Then you only have to kill another 8-20,000 humans.

But that could be trickier cuz Trent Telenko thinks if Israel invades Gaza they might lose another 1,000 soldiers so then you'd need to kill another 10,000.

Personally, I find this all incredibly disgusting. From your and other Israeli supporters call for war crimes and terrorism to your refusal to discuss any way to peace other than killing more of the native population. You need to find a way to deescalate. Killing people will not lead to peace, even if you use nukes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712202006712992062
 
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Frankfooter

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Kautilya said:
Countries are made of people. Saying a country has no right to exist, is as good as saying, the people have no right to exist.
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No, countries are pieces of land with human decided borders.
There is no such thing as a country's right to exist.
 
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Frankfooter

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jalimon said:
It's an absolute crazy situation because these territories should have never existed. A piece of land should simply have been given to palestine people... (if I can call them like that).

By not having their land they have become inhuman and who can blame them...

Now they go to war.

War is crazy.

War is performed by 20 year old or so who would rather go all to a rave together and who in normal circumstance would love each other.

But war is decided by old fart who hate each other out of ego, greed and men who grew into old fucking fart.
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Its totally fucked.

Colonial Britain decided to deal with a group of refugees they didn't want by forcing them on another country they didn't want to make another people they liked even less take care of Germany and Europe's problem.
 
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Frankfooter

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Kautilya said:
No countries are not just pieces of land with human decided borders. They are a cultural entity and an identity both of which are deeply connected to individuals who live there. So a countries right to exist, automatically translates to a person's right to identify as belonging to something. You are advocating for imperialism and colonialism here.
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You are confusing the right to live on land with the right of the land to have humans.
Palestinians have the Right to Return to their homes in historic Palestine, but 'Palestine' doesn't have a right to those people.
Countries have no rights.
 
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Frankfooter

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Kautilya said:
Right to live on the land is an immigration or legal status.

Right of a country to exist is the about the country's sovereignty, and its people's right to self-identify and self-determine their identities.

To say countries have no rights, is to say that anyone can invade anyone else.

By saying this you are justifying colonialism and arguing against yourself. You are justifying Israel's occupation of Palestine. You are justifying the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You are justifying American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on.
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No, that right is still about the people living there to defend their right to live there. Its not about the country itself has a right to attack another piece of land.

Colonialism is about one people deciding they have the right to rule over another group of people on a separate piece of land. Its still about the people.

For instance, the Israeli supporters here argue that Palestinians have zero rights, no right to live on their homeland, no right of return, no right to self defence and no right to vote. Those are all human rights stifled by a colonial power, Israel. Nobody in their right mind would argue that the land was deemed to be Palestine in 1948 by the UN so Palestine the country has the right to tell all illegal settlers to leave. That would be ridiculous.

Or are you arguing that you think Palestine, as internationally ordained as a country by the UN, has rights that are being curtailed by the piece of land that the UN ordained as Israel in 1948?
 
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HungSowel

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Kautilya said:
Right to live on the land is an immigration or legal status.

Right of a country to exist is the about the country's sovereignty, and its people's right to self-identify and self-determine their identities.

To say countries have no rights, is to say that anyone can invade anyone else.

By saying this you are justifying colonialism and arguing against yourself. You are justifying Israel's occupation of Palestine. You are justifying the Russian invasion of Ukraine. You are justifying American invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. And so on.
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Rights are guaranteed by a higher authority that has the power to impose penalties, fines, violence, and imprisonment. If your rights as a citizen of this country are violated then the justice system is used to enforce your rights. If this country is invaded by another country, who is the authority that will stop them? The UN?
 
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HungSowel

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Kautilya said:
The individual countries have to defend themselves. But countries are also recognized by others. A self-identifying country has natural rights. They dont have to be conferred upon them by a higher power.
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This is a list of former sovereign states, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_former_sovereign_states, countries have no natural right to even exist never mind rights beyond that.

The only higher power governing all countries is the age-old adage; if you can defend it then it is yours. By that metric Israel has earned its existence, I want to say earned its right to exist but it would be a mischaracterization as rights do not apply to countries.
 
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shack

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Frankfooter said:
How big should the disproportionate response be, shack?
There have sadly been 1000 Israelis killed so far and equally as sadly a few more Palestinians.

Usually Israel kills 10x, so you do you think Israel needs to kill another 9-10,000 Palestinians or is this a special case and do you need to kill more to really teach them a lesson?

You should have a head start soon, with all the water, food and electricity gone all the hospitals are about lose all patients on machines.
So you will get the death of 200 newborns on ventilators and 1100 dialysis patients.

Then you only have to kill another 8-20,000 humans.

But that could be trickier cuz Trent Telenko thinks if Israel invades Gaza they might lose another 1,000 soldiers so then you'd need to kill another 10,000.

Personally, I find this all incredibly disgusting. From your and other Israeli supporters call for war crimes and terrorism to your refusal to discuss any way to peace other than killing more of the native population. You need to find a way to deescalate. Killing people will not lead to peace, even if you use nukes.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1712202006712992062
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Hamas brought all this on the Gazans. Use whatever "justifications" you want, Hamas' actions set all this in motion. And any "justification" for Hamas' attack is also justifying the death and suffering of Gazans that will be coming. And you knew that the Gazans would suffer as soon as Hamas launched their attack. And that's OK with you.
 
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