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Israel at war

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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
My question was - Where is the evidence that someone was trying to introduce, a Taliban style Sharia that prohibits you from listening to music, prohibits women from going to schools, justifies domestic violence etc in Ontario ?

So how is an MP's recommendation to use Sharia Law for arbitration on small family matters as an extension to the 1991 arbitration law, that allowed other religions to participate in faith based arbitration, an attempt to introduce "Taliban style Sharia Law"?
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Show me where I said "Taliban style". Beyond that I don't believe ANY religious subtext belongs in the civil or criminal justice system. They all started from it but have moved well past it now. Justice systems above all else need to be equal.
 
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Klatuu

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Kautilya said:
The oppression and apartheid is true. I won't even go into terrorism, attacks from neighboring Arab nations etc that have transpired throughout the last 75 years, which further resulted in measures taken by Israel to keep itself safe, which consequently resulted in more oppression.

But how does Israel's oppression justify the mass murder of 1400 Israeli civilians who were specifically targeted ?
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Endless Brainwashing. Israel has never oppressed anyone to protect themselves. That’s a central myth of the brainwashed. They have only oppressed to ethically cleanse and make the lives of Palestinians so miserable and disgusting they give up and leave. They oppress andpunish the Palestinians for daring to think they are entitled to freedom, their lands, and their lives. They murder and maim Palestinians for the same reasons. They practice apartheid because they are impatient to rid themselves of Palestinians.

Hamas and Mohamed Deif explicitly and clearly articulated why this happened and what their goal Is. They proclaimed they have had enough. Enough. No more. And from what I’m seeing, they seem to have set in motion events that will lead to a better future for Palestinians. One thing is for sure, Israels status is forever diminished.
 
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mandrill

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Butler1000 said:
Show me where I said "Taliban style". Beyond that I don't believe ANY religious subtext belongs in the civil or criminal justice system. They all started from it but have moved well past it now. Justice systems above all else need to be equal.
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And that's what the Ontario government said too. In 2005. That ended the debate - apart from you bringing it up.
 
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richaceg

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Klatuu said:
Endless Brainwashing. Israel has never oppressed anyone to protect themselves. That’s a central myth of the brainwashed. They have only oppressed to ethically cleanse and make the lives of Palestinians so miserable and disgusting they give up and leave. They oppress andpunish the Palestinians for daring to think they are entitled to freedom, their lands, and their lives. They murder and maim Palestinians for the same reasons. They practice apartheid because they are impatient to rid themselves of Palestinians.

Hamas and Mohamed Deif explicitly and clearly articulated why this happened and what their goal Is. They proclaimed they have had enough. Enough. No more. And from what I’m seeing, they seem to have set in motion events that will lead to a better future for Palestinians. One thing is for sure, Israels status is forever diminished.
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https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1717236416948900139
 
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richaceg

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Klatuu said:
Do you think these were the same soldiers who ran away when Hamas attacked and left civilians to fend for themselves?
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Hamas will be obliterated soon....they will take as many palestinian civilians with them....that's what you support....
 
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PeteOsborne

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Butler1000

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Kautilya said:
You said Islam was a death cult that practiced the dangerous Sharia Law. So show me where someone was trying to turn Ontario into a death cult that only the Taliban style Sharia Law can. Don't keep deflecting. Another option for you is to just say that you were wrong.
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Slippery slope. Just like Aceh province. Go look it up. And you are boring me now.
 
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richaceg

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Kautilya said:
This is a very myopic, one-sided view where, Israel is evil, and the Palestinians are good. I am not sure if you are Palestinian by origin, that you have such a one-sided view of history.

If you read Israel's history, even before 1948, the Jewish and Arab Muslim factions were forming paramilitary units to attack each other. Subsequently, there have been numerous attacks, that Israel has repelled.

For example, after the 1948 war, it was Jordan that held the West Bank, and Egypt, Gaza. Did the Palestinians not have an opportunity to form a state then (between 1949 and 1967) ? After 1967, when Israel took over the West Bank as a result of the 6 day war, and settlers started establishing themselves (they shouldn't have), apartheid started partly as a way to fend off suicide bombings. The wall, checkpoints etc are examples of safety measures that yes, amount to apartheid, but were put in place to ensure safety.

Based on what I have heard Palestinians say - that Israel is an illusion that should not exist and that the entire land, river to sea, belongs to them, I am unsure what Palestinians would have done, had the Israelis lost. I am sure they would have ethnically cleansed the Jews based on that alone. Now am not saying Jews in Israel do not argue this - there are several that consider the Palestinians as the occupiers and want them to go away. But the proportion of Israelis who propose to live together in peace seems to be far higher than the proportion of Palestinians who want to live in peace next to the Jews.

The fundamental problem with Palestinian demands (and that of the Arab Muslim world), seems to be that according to them, any non-Muslim sovereign entity, does not have a place in the Islamic expanse of the middle east. And today the problem is that for peace and statehood to happen, Palestinians want to go back to the past and work for peace from there, when in reality, they squandered that opportunity right from the get go in 1948! So presently, peace and statehood has to be negotiated based on current realities, which they are unwilling to consider.

This uncompromising position, combined with terrorism and an unwillingness to socially or politically progress, along with Israel's own racism, oppression and security measures, is the reason for Palestinian suffering.

It takes two to tango. The day Palestinians get rid of terrorism, accept Israel as a legitimate state, accept that Israel will hold on to the larger land mass, and be the one that will be economically, militarily and politically dominant, is the day Palestinians can hope to have peace and a separate state (that will be much smaller than the one in 1948 and 1967), from where they can start over.
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The problem is that Jews felt they have been oppressed long before Palestinians were even in Philistine...the Romans , Turks, Ottoman and Brits....Transjordan (Jordan) was part of David's rule...1000 bc....there have always been Jews there....the 2 state was never going to happen as far as Arabs are concern....Black September also shows you, even without the Jews, there will still be conflict in the middle east...
 
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Klatuu

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Kautilya said:
This is a very myopic, one-sided view where, Israel is evil, and the Palestinians are good. I am not sure if you are Palestinian by origin, that you have such a one-sided view of history.

If you read Israel's history, even before 1948, the Jewish and Arab Muslim factions were forming paramilitary units to attack each other. Subsequently, there have been numerous attacks, that Israel has repelled.

For example, after the 1948 war, it was Jordan that held the West Bank, and Egypt, Gaza. Did the Palestinians not have an opportunity to form a state then (between 1949 and 1967) ? After 1967, when Israel took over the West Bank as a result of the 6 day war, and settlers started establishing themselves (they shouldn't have), apartheid started partly as a way to fend off suicide bombings. The wall, checkpoints etc are examples of safety measures that yes, amount to apartheid, but were put in place to ensure safety.

Based on what I have heard Palestinians say - that Israel is an illusion that should not exist and that the entire land, river to sea, belongs to them, I am unsure what Palestinians would have done, had the Israelis lost. I am sure they would have ethnically cleansed the Jews based on that alone. Now am not saying Jews in Israel do not argue this - there are several that consider the Palestinians as the occupiers and want them to go away. But the proportion of Israelis who propose to live together in peace seems to be far higher than the proportion of Palestinians who want to live in peace next to the Jews.

The fundamental problem with Palestinian demands (and that of the Arab Muslim world), seems to be that according to them, any non-Muslim sovereign entity, does not have a place in the Islamic expanse of the middle east. And today the problem is that for peace and statehood to happen, Palestinians want to go back to the past and work for peace from there, when in reality, they squandered that opportunity right from the get go in 1948! So presently, peace and statehood has to be negotiated based on current realities, which they are unwilling to consider.

This uncompromising position, combined with terrorism and an unwillingness to socially or politically progress, along with Israel's own racism, oppression and security measures, is the reason for Palestinian suffering.

It takes two to tango. The day Palestinians get rid of terrorism, accept Israel as a legitimate state, accept that Israel will hold on to the larger land mass, and be the one that will be economically, militarily and politically dominant, is the day Palestinians can hope to have peace and a separate state (that will be much smaller than the one in 1948 and 1967), from where they can start over.
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That’s just a regurgitation of the discredited and brainwashed narrative that is rife with racism. I wish I could get the time I wasted on that drivel back.
 
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Klatuu

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richaceg said:
The problem is that Jews felt they have been oppressed long before Palestinians were even in Philistine...the Romans , Turks, Ottoman and Brits....Transjordan (Jordan) was part of David's rule...1000 bc....there have always been Jews there....the 2 state was never going to happen as far as Arabs are concern....Black September also shows you, even without the Jews, there will still be conflict in the middle east...
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I love it when you start off with the usual thumb sucking. But, I’ve got some hard truths for you. Jews were not the first in that region and they won’t be the last. They are just one of many peoples in that area. They’ve got no more claim to it than any of the others.
 
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