Is this racist??

The picture is of a guy being an ass.

The illustrations are stereotypes, and also offensive.

With the possible exception of the sports team logo.

Even the San Francisco Chinese logo?

The fellow in the red face was counter-protesting an American Indian Movement (AIM) protest of the team’s continued use of the Chief Wahoo logo and Cleveland Indians team name.

The guy Wahoo was confronting was protestor Robert Roche, a Chiricahua Apache tribe member, AIM member and Executive Director of the American Indian Education Center.

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The fellow in the red face was counter-protesting an American Indian Movement protest of the team’s continued use of the Chief Wahoo logo and Cleveland Indian team name.

And your point is,... ???
 
And your point is,... ???

I’d think the connection between the red-faced counter-protestor of the team logo, and an image with 5-other offensive stereotypes represented as made-up team logos, plus the Wahoo logo (another example of an offensive stereotype) would be tough to miss.

The illustrations are stereotypes, and also offensive.

With the possible exception of the sports team logo.

But you kind of make my point.
 
I’d think the connection between the red-faced counter-protestor of the team logo, and an image with 5-other offensive stereotypes represented as made-up team logos, plus the Wahoo logo (another example of an offensive stereotype) would be tough to miss.

But you kind of make my point.

What connection is that.

Every one of those logo's, with the exception of an actual team logo,... are fake.

When a sports team creates a team logo,... it obviously would use one that means something positive,... there is no intention to offend.

Nobody is going to call a team the Washington Wusses, or Sheboygan Shits,... although I'm not sure how someone could come up with the Ottawa Senators,... :).

I get it that natives could be offended,... but it is NOT intentional.
 
What connection is that.

Every one of those logo's, with the exception of an actual team logo,... are fake.

When a sports team creates a team logo,... it obviously would use one that means something positive,... there is no intention to offend.

Nobody is going to call a team the Washington Wusses, or Sheboygan Shits,... although I'm not sure how someone could come up with the Ottawa Senators,... :).

I get it that natives could be offended,... but it is NOT intentional.

It doesn’t matter whether the offensiveness is intentional or not.
 
What connection is that.

One last time...

All 6 of the images are offensive.

One is also a team logo. That doesn’t make it somehow not offensive.

Every one of those logo's, with the exception of an actual team logo,... are fake.

When a sports team creates a team logo,... it obviously would use one that means something positive,... there is no intention to offend.

Nobody is going to call a team the Washington Wusses, or Sheboygan Shits,... although I'm not sure how someone could come up with the Ottawa Senators,... :).

I get it that natives could be offended,... but it is NOT intentional.

It may have not been intentional when they created the logo, but they are literally being protested every season over their continued use of an offensive image. They can’t pretend they still don’t know that it’s offensive.

Their (the organization and counter-protestor in red face) argument is that the Wahoo, like the team name is not offensive. Those other people at the protest disagree.

Times change.

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That's the excuse for drunk driving.

+1

I wish I had him as a dad whenever I hurt my little brother. “Oh? You didn’t mean to hurt him? Nevermind. I thought you were in trouble.”
 
That's the excuse for drunk driving.

Believe it or not,... there is a big difference between intentionally insulting,... unintentionally insulting,... and drunk driving.

An example for you,... some one calling you an idiot,... is intentional,... some one not familiar with your language, and uses a word incorrectly when greeting you that you take as offense,... is not intentional.
 
Believe it or not,... there is a big difference between intentionally insulting,... unintentionally insulting,... and drunk driving.

An example for you,... some one calling you an idiot,... is intentional,... some one not familiar with your language, and uses a word incorrectly when greeting you that you take as offense,... is not intentional.

Now that same person calls you an idiot, after he’d been told it was offensive, is it intentional then?

How about after the 2nd or 3rd time he’s told it’s offensive?
 
Believe it or not,... there is a big difference between intentionally insulting,... unintentionally insulting,... and drunk driving.

An example for you,... some one calling you an idiot,... is intentional,... some one not familiar with your language, and uses a word incorrectly when greeting you that you take as offense,... is not intentional.

If I accidentally run over you with my car then I have probably caused harm to you. The fact that it was an accident doesn’t mitigate the fact that my actions caused you harm.

Presumably, once it has been brought to my attention that I am harming you I would want to stop. If I keep backing up my car and running over you again and again then that kinda makes me an asshole...it would also make one wonder if the first time was really an accident.
 
Now that same person calls you an idiot, after he’d been told it was offensive, is it intentional then?

You need me to answer that,... ???
 
Not sure.

Is it racist for a guy to paint his face black to imitate a black person?
 
If I accidentally run over you with my car then I have probably caused harm to you. The fact that it was an accident doesn’t mitigate the fact that my actions caused you harm.

Presumably, once it has been brought to my attention that I am harming you I would want to stop. If I keep backing up my car and running over you again and again then that kinda makes me an asshole...it would also make one wonder if the first time was really an accident.

I’m starting to feel like I know how special education teachers must feel some days.
 
I’m starting to feel like I know how special education teachers must feel some days.

At least special ed kids can still learn with some extra support; they aren’t wilfully, defiantly ignorant like some of our terb brothers.
 
I’m starting to feel like I know how special education teachers must feel some days.

Hey,... don't be so hard on yourself,... they did a pretty good job.

My last comment on this thread.

A person can not be accused of racism,... unless there is intent.

The term racism has lost any usefulness today,... it means everything,... and nothing.
 
They wear those uniforms because that's it matches the restaurants theme. I've actually heard that some servers at Mandarin restaurants are Canadian born, yet speak with a broken English accent for some reason. I find that funny since Mandarin is the least Chinese restaurant you can go to.

I've heard of shit like that happening too. Reminds me of the movie Maverick - a Russian rich guy pays the Natives to act Native and speak in stereotypical tongue.

Native: Bonjour Monsieur.
Russian: Speak Native
Native: How, white man!
Russian: Hello Savage.

also, who doesn't have a fucking asian girl fetish? that probably describes like 90% of guys on this forum. you ever wonder why there's an "best asian SP of the year" poll on here every year, but not one for any other race of girls? i'm fully aware that asian females are constantly fetishized by all males of all races, thanks. you haven't proven anything.

I don't have a stereotypical fetish (school girl outfit, accent with broken English, child-like/school girl talk) and I'm thinking others don't, which is why occasionally people ask if the girl is CBC or has an accent. I certainly like Asians and will happily see them but the stereotypical fetish is not for me.

My point is,... if a person has no intent to be racist, that person is NOT being racist.

Its NOT whether or not an act that could be considered as racist,... but the persons intent.

There has to hundreds of acts in the world that could be considered racist by somebody,... so I'm supposed to stop giving the thumbs up sign,... because it may offend some tribe in Africa that I have never heard of,... ridiculous.

We'll have to agree to disagree as intent doesn't take away from the result/impact (as someone else points out). If I joke someone is an idiot, I don't intend to hurt their feelings but if I do my intent is irrelevant.

But my argument about signs is that you can't get offended if a sign is offensive to you for some specific reason while it's not to others. For example, the thumbs up sign is universal and well known (I've seen soccer players use it to indicate nice pass attempt). So if I use it and somebody gets offended because to them it has some negative connotation, I'll apologize they're offended and then discuss it, get their perspective and explain what it means to me. But I'll still use it if I'm meaning ok as it's known to mean.

Hey,... don't be so hard on yourself,... they did a pretty good job.

My last comment on this thread.

A person can not be accused of racism,... unless there is intent.

The term racism has lost any usefulness today,... it means everything,... and nothing.

I remember hearing about a kid from South Africa a long time ago was kicked out of school because he'd refer to other black kids as garbage and N-words, probably because that's what he was used to back home. Was he intending to be racist? Probably not - he didn't know any better. But his comments were still racist, he was told to stop, he didn't, so he was kicked out.

And while intent in a legal sense intent makes the difference in 1st/2nd/3rd degree murder and manslaughter, it all falls into the statement "You killed somebody".
 
At least special ed kids can still learn with some extra support; they aren’t wilfully, defiantly ignorant like some of our terb brothers.

You’re right.

Dealing with special ed kids might be easier, and is surely more rewarding.

Hey,... don't be so hard on yourself,... they did a pretty good job.

Ahhh yes. The old redirect.

Your colleagues on the short bus would be proud, I’m sure.

My last comment on this thread.

:blue:

A person can not be accused of racism,... unless there is intent.

The term racism has lost any usefulness today,... it means everything,... and nothing.

The original post on his thread, and all subsequent new examples prove that undoubtedly one can be accused of racism without having your required intent.

It would also appear that being publicly accused of ‘intent-less’ racism can have the desired effect in some instances.

Have you forgotten the conclusion of the OP TorSun article, or do you just disagree?

“I understand why some people, usually white people will say, ‘Why do you take it so seriously? It’s done for fun’ — those individuals may not understand why it’s problematic and offensive because they don’t intend to be racist or discriminatory. These kinds of representations are connected to more pernicious kinds of racism and more explicit kinds of discrimination. They’re all on a continuum of misrepresenting people.”

The club apologized on its Instagram account the following day, but appeared to have deleted a few pictures promoting the controversial event.

“We executed poor judgment in the event concept and in our response afterwards. We will use this as an example to do better and think more carefully about our actions,” the club said.

More than 750 comments have been posted since the apology.

Establishment didn’t intend to offend, did, offered apology, removed offensive imagery.

When I last checked the apology post, there were over 1,200 comments, and at a quick glance almost all of which expressed disappointment in the venue and event organizers for using offensive imagery in the first place.
 
You’re absolutely right in that everyone has a right to an opinion (thought, conscience and belief falls under article 9 of UNHR code), and in a more limited sense in Canada to express this opinion (section 2 of the Charter). But these same rights protect wigglee’s ability to criticize you.

I’ll once again emphasize, being ignorant of your own inherent internalized racist / sexist / homophobic / xenophobic / transphobic / ageist / ableist / islamaphobic / anti-Semitic (etc.) values doesn’t protect you from the ability to be criticized in the same public space for having/sharing this ignorance with the world.

If the person in the original photo (and/or the photo editor), or the organizers/creators of the event were unaware of how insensitive this is/was, so be it... but ignorance doesn’t give you immunity from criticism if you’re choosing to publicize your own ignorance.

I often go back to cartoons like Family Guy, The Simpsons and South Park for this stuff.

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The joke here is on Peter for being racist, not on the group he’s stereotyping. Family Guy may go a step further by drawing criticism to an increasingly over-sensitive society or to criticize the show and therefore the audience, but it does so at its own risk.

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Similarly, Canadian jokes in South Park have always been less about taking Canadians down a notch for saying “aboot” and “eh” than it is a medium to draw attention to American society’s second easiest/laziest joke after “toilet humour” (dick and fart jokes), the stereotype. The joke is rarely if ever “on” Canada itself, but on the show/audience and/or society that chooses to laugh at the joke.

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The Simpsons has tons of great examples of how jokes on racism (good) vs jokes on stereotypes (bad) work. When Hank Azaria was first asked to make Apu’s voice he pointed out the obvious racism in the stereotype. The original show runners were keenly aware of this, and attempted to balance one-dimensional stereotyped characters like Apu, wherein the joke was on him for having a funny accent and working in a convenience store, with characters like Dr. Hibbert and Homer’s friend Carl. These characters, if you’re wondering, fly in the face of traditional one-dimensional stereotypes, thus in the eyes of the original show runners, allowing them at the time to get away with marginalizing a character like Apu.

It didn’t take long for the world to recognize this hypocrisy of black men on the show being nuclear scientists, doctors and judges, while the show’s only Indian character is only ever seen working a minimum wage job, so they attempted to make this character at-least two dimensional by giving him a backstory, something they never actually did with the towns black characters over its 28 year run, because they didn’t have to, by not stereotyping them in their inception.

What this tells us is, at the time The Simpson’s was created, a stereotyped black character was a complete no-go. No shock in a society 40-years after MLK. But how could they get away with Apu? Because at the time Indians and SE Asian Americans had a very limited voice in society. Since then, we’ve gotten better at recognizing social injustice.

And we’re better because of it. Most of the time society improves when marginalized groups are given more recognition and therefore a voice in society.

Edgy humour is allowed in the era of woke, but it’s a perilous and ever-changing line that you choose to cross whenever you participate in public society.


LMAO ! ANTI SEMITIC VIEWS? buddy who are you talking to ? do you know me ? have u ever met me even as an sp ? who are you to come on here and call me racist, homophobic , anti sematic and whatever other bullshit you have called me. After you blatantly accused me of all those things -I refused to read your comment any further. If you can NOT have a decent conversation with me as a NORMAL HUMAN BEING - I will not entertain it sorry.

There are tons of jokes made in the everyday world that could be defined as "RACIST" / "RACISM" are they ? NO - because people of the joke know how to take a JOKE. Its clear that many members on this board do not know how. The event was to promote something . so take the stick out of your ass and move on. lol that simple. You and I disagree -ok fine BUT there is no NEED to call me RACIST/ HOMOPHOBIC / ANTI SEMETIC & whatever other crap you may have called me. Get over your ego managee.

Fasts comments are probably the smartest comments on this thread lol. You guys are so BOUGIE ( UPTIGHT )- LOOK IT UP URBAN DICTIONARY).

This is the problem with you guys - the thread was done a LONG LONG LONG LONG TIME AGO- but yet you guys are bringing everything into it trying to talk about other things that are not even RELATED TO THIS TOPIC. Also you guys have a habit of shitting on anyone who disagrees with you.

Like I said before I really don't care what other people who have never met me think of me - that would be a waste of my time... Seriously lol. Come on, u don't agree with my comments alright - if you cant have a CIVILIZED conversation WITHOUT ACCUSING people of things they are not you should probably not respond.

Whats that saying again ? oh ya " if you don't have anything nice to say- don't say anything at all !" seems like a lot of you keyboard warriors forget your manners when you are behind a computer screen. I am so over this thread. Maybe its time a mod closed it.