Intelligent conversation challenge...

[Perry Mason]

So my question is this:
Can we put aside all our customary/habitual bullshit and have an intelligent, deep conversation about what is happening?

I know there are a lot of intelligent men and women here. Yes, sometimes we don't show it or forget it because some of us put a lot of time and energy into bickering over trivia and nonsense.

But this pandemic is serious. This virus is a wicked motherfucker! It is not even a life form! And it could obliterate society as we know it.

We are all passengers on Spaceship Earth. Many of us are the pilots and navigators, too. And we are in deep shit that shows no inclination to go away any time soon. And we are fumbling all over the place. We are struggling.

How do we get out of it? The question could be, how do we survive?

It seems to me the first step is to put aside the bickering so that we can together understand how we got into it. It will take a collective effort... not pointing fingers!

For me, I have always found that the most useful way of finding a way out of a jam was to first understand how I got into it.

Most of all, what we are doing seems to fall into Einstein's definition of insanity: doing the same things over and over again, expecting different results.

This is an invitation to an intelligent, courteous dialogue... :yo:

Perry

 

[out4fun]

I find it strange that the world is now consumed with the notion that life is priceless.
How come it wasn’t priceless prior to COVID 19?
I guess when 80 year old, rich white men can die, this shit gets serious.

 

[angrymime666]

I believe we have become accustomed to a certain standard or expectation of how our lives should be. this is evident in first world countries. however, nature feels differently.

while I feel most people want to live happy lives that are fulfilling and bountiful, life isnt that way. expecting it to be is naive and rather short sighted. first world countries have become comfortable with all its wonderful technology, access to resources and improved living standards. nature will always find a way to cull the weak despite how hard we try to out smart it.

nature is doing its job, and unfortunately nature doesnt give a shit about any living creature.

Ive always been a fan of Darwinism. survival of the fittest. evolution has shaped humanity and pretty much all life on this planet. constantly improving from one generation to the next and those that could not compete became obsolete. as a society and being human we have compassion which has been a down fall in some ways. we care for the poor, the sick, the addicts, and anyone who cannot be responsible for themselves. we are taxed for programs that most successful people do not use. we no longer as individuals bear the weight of our choices and those choices are loaded onto the government and society.

when I look at the covid I see nature trying to do its job and people interfering with that. most healthy people will experience little to some symptoms of the virus and apparently go on with life little for wear. I am not a doctor so I am not 100% sure on this. I have been watching the news and the number of people dying isnt that great. perhaps 3% of the population. those 3% are the elderly and medically fragile people.

people are meant to die. we spend millions/billions trying to keep alive people who have abnormal medical issues. I think we should stop wasting resources on not only covid people but many other people. sometime you need to cut the dead weight....

 

[shack]

I find it strange that the world is now consumed with the notion that life is priceless.
How come it wasn’t priceless prior to COVID 19?

As the saying goes, sometimes people need to get hit over the head before they understand something.

Or, you don't miss your water 'til your well runs dry.

 

[luvyeah]

We are in the time with too many bitch ass niggas.

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

Maybe we should listen to people like Elon Musk who is trying to change the world and protect consciousness by being the first person to make us multi planetary species. his message Love is the answer. It really is this simple when you consider it all.

Maybe we can all try to be a little more loving towards each other. Give back and try to live more sustainability. Love is one of the things that separates us from this virus. Right now the virus only interest is itself and it’s survival at any expense. Looks like a reflection of how many of us live. Think of wolf on Wall Street. Many people live just like this virus leaching and feeding off the earth and other people in an unsustainable way until there is nothing to leech anymore to feed the host with little regard for feelings and sustainability.

Spiral dynamics is a great model that helps explain our awareness and development both at a personal and a collective level, such as organisations and society. In terb the majority of us are blue and orange level with some green and very few at yellow. There is still the turquoise that I don’t think any one of us here have reached based on what I read from terb in the past 10+ years. I think understanding these levels will help us see each other’s perspectives and how we can evolve as a species in a sustainable and loving way.

End the end of the day are you willing to put others needs ahead of your own provided your basic needs are met and give back? If not what makes us different then this virus? Are we not then just a reflection of what it wants to do by doing whatever it takes to survive even at the expense of its host? Look at what people did over hoarding and toilet paper and we were nowhere close to apocalypse level. Imagine what would happen if it got to this stage?

 

[Robert Mugabe]

Talk about being asleep at the wheel. Try to think of one iota of an example where humans are doing something right. Evil dictators everywhere. Pollution and deforestation. Genocide not making headlines this week. I feel like we are just about to pull the plug. or have it pulled for us.

 

[out4fun]

Maybe we should listen to people like Elon Musk who is trying to change the world and protect consciousness by being the first person to make us multi planetary species. his message Love is the answer. It really is this simple when you consider it all.

Maybe we can all try to be a little more loving towards each other. Give back and try to live more sustainability. Love is one of the things that separates us from this virus. Right now the virus only interest is itself and it’s survival at any expense. Looks like a reflection of how many of us live. Think of wolf on Wall Street. Many people live just like this virus leaching and feeding off the earth and other people in an unsustainable way until there is nothing to leech anymore to feed the host with little regard for feelings and sustainability.

Spiral dynamics is a great model that helps explain our awareness and development both at a personal and a collective level, such as organisations and society. In terb the majority of us are blue and orange level with some green and very few at yellow. There is still the turquoise that I don’t think any one of us here have reached based on what I read from terb in the past 10+ years. I think understanding these levels will help us see each other’s perspectives and how we can evolve as a species in a sustainable and loving way.

End the end of the day are you willing to put others needs ahead of your own provided your basic needs are met and give back? If not what makes us different then this virus? Are we not then just a reflection of what it wants to do by doing whatever it takes to survive even at the expense of its host? Look at what people did over hoarding and toilet paper and we were nowhere close to apocalypse level. Imagine what would happen if it got to this stage?

I’d like to be more like Elon Musk. I’d love to separate people from their money and offer no real wealth creation.

 

[shack]

Talk about being asleep at the wheel. Try to think of one iota of an example where humans are doing something right. Evil dictators everywhere. Pollution and deforestation. Genocide not making headlines this week. I feel like we are just about to pull the plug. or have it pulled for us.

It's hard to feel optimistic nowadays, isn't it?

It's no fun getting older but I am not so sure that I'd want to be a youngster growing up in this world.

 

[Smallcock]

It's hard to feel optimistic nowadays, isn't it?

It's no fun getting older but I am not so sure that I'd want to be a youngster growing up in this world.

There's every reason to be optimistic. Nobody should be down because of this new respiratory flu. Humans have faced A LOT worse. Humans are problem solvers and we're going to solve the problems that lay ahead. And if we don't, Mama Nature will solve them for us. Covid is just her warning.

Cheer up!

I was just watching a video today of a Mexican cartel member who had his face skinned off reported in the news on April 7th. He was alive but with no skin on his face. It looked so painful and made me thank God that I live here with covid instead of there. It's also incredible that while we're all social distancing and wearing PPE and protecting granny at the old folk's home, our Southern Native American brothers are slaughtering each other like covid doesn't even exist. They haven't changed their way of life, and we don't have to either.

 

[Fradi]

I find it strange that the world is now consumed with the notion that life is priceless.
How come it wasn’t priceless prior to COVID 19?
I guess when 80 year old, rich white men can die, this shit gets serious.

According to statistics in the US it is killing way more poor and rich black men than rich white men, it does not seem to care about your bank account, but yes it is serious.
In the end though the majority will survive, just like they have survived other pandemics and wars.
Humanity hopefully will learn from this and be better prepared for the next one.
As devastating as this is so far all indications are that it will not kill more than 2-5% of the population and the majority of the young will survive.

 

[Perry Mason]

I find it strange that the world is now consumed with the notion that life is priceless.
How come it wasn’t priceless prior to COVID 19?

And I find it strange that the world is now consumed with the notion that collaboration is essential.

Why is it that our legal, economic and political systems are competitive/adversarial/confrontational?

Perry

 

[Malibuk]

Governments have created trillions of dollars out of thin air to prevent an economic collapse, and taken on trillions more in suspect assets.

This goes to show how the flow and circulation of money is essentially the blood flowing through the veins of society.

The problem is that even when the lockdown eases, a lot of people will be far less willing and able to spend much, for quite some time.

 

[Malibuk]

I find it strange that the world is now consumed with the notion that life is priceless.

We are only a month into the lockdown here so your feeling is premature.

A lockdown is necessary to prevent the health system from being overwhelmed.
Unfortunately, it was much too little and too late so the problem is way worse than it should have been.

There will come a time, probably within a couple of months, where a balanced decision will need to be made.
The economy needs to start up and some people will die, but waiting too long will make the cure far worse than the virus.

 

[Insidious Von]

What Peter O'Toole said in Lawrence of Arabia applies to humans in general , "were are a weak species, a silly species".

Nor do I believe in Darwin's notion of survival of the fittest, two World Wars and the French and Russian Revolutions debunk that theory. I do believe in Carl Sagan's theories on human evolution. He was much more than an astronomer, he was an evolutionary philosopher. His books The Dragons of Eden and Pale Blue Dot should be required reading in high school.

Btw, Carl Sagan's path to a Noble Goal, started in our city. A speech he gave at the Uof T's Convocation Hall. I wish I had been born a decade earlier so that I could have been there. He's more relevant now than ever.

 

[daywalker11]

I find it strange that the world is now consumed with the notion that life is priceless.
How come it wasn’t priceless prior to COVID 19?
I guess when 80 year old, rich white men can die, this shit gets serious.

Wait, I thought African Americans are the ones primarily effected?

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/danvergano/coronavirus-black-americans-covid19

You sure you have your narratives right?

 

[WyattEarp]

This thread is a microcosm of social media. I'm not sure if this was the direction the original poster had in mind. Anyway, I find many people on various social media are projecting their own feelings and thoughts about the world we live in. In a way, it is really amplifying people's original views about our world. However, these thoughts go in so many directions.

I am more sanguine about where the world heads from here. I am also a realist. I don't think when this subsides everyone suddenly changes their lifestyles, their daily concerns and their desires. While the virus is a major global challenge, I think people especially many of us in the first world do not know real challenges. Many of our grandparents (and some of your parents) lived through and survived a lot worse.

 

[Fradi]

While the virus is a major global challenge, I think people especially many of us in the first world do not know real challenges. Many of our grandparents (and some of your parents) lived through and survived a lot worse.

You are right, our parents went through wars, I went through a revolution as a child escaping thorough the woods carrying my own suitcase with machine gun fire all around. Spent 11 months in refugee camps and lived in three different countries.
Most people in North America living today have never faced any real hardships or a war in their own back yard.

My wife passed away in 5 weeks from cancer a number of years ago, She would have gladly faced the mortality of 10% of her age group from the current virus. Her chances of survival was less than 1%.
The majority will survive this, that is not to say we should take it lightly and not follow the instructions of our health professionals.

 

[brazilianguy]

You are right, our parents went through wars, I went through a revolution as a child escaping thorough the woods carrying my own suitcase with machine gun fire all around. Spent 11 months in refugee camps and lived in three different countries.
Most people in North America living today have never faced any real hardships or a war in their own back yard.

My wife passed away in 5 weeks from cancer a number of years ago, She would have gladly faced the mortality of 10% of her age group from the current virus. Her chances of survival was less than 1%.
The majority will survive this, that is not to say we should take it lightly and not follow the instructions of our health professionals.

May I ask how old you are?

 

[Fradi]

Sure, most people hide their age.
I look at it that everyone was young once, that is not a badge of honour.
Getting old is a an achievement on its own that not everybody will achieve.
I am 69.