Imagine the united states without electoral.college

[bver_hunter]

its fine and has worked this long for them and will continue to work

are you American? if not why do you care?

we also have a system where the one with the most votes overall does not win

Well numerous nations like Germany, France etc have Coalitions if no single party wins the overall majority votes. If we adopted that system, then in no way would we have a Conservative Government as the majority of the votes would go to those that are left of centre in Canada. The Electoral college is even more retarded as it has very little to do with proportional representation, and it is virtually impossible to have more than two parties for true representation of all Americans, as it is all about Financial backing for the parties and the scale of it!!

 

[NotADcotor]

After 9/11 Gore wouldn't have been pressured to invade and occupy Afghanistan???

From what I remember Bush ran as a bit of an isolationist and all that went out the window when 9/11 happened.
Never mind that Obama didn't exactly withdraw from Afghanistan nor Iraq.

I don't see many people complaining about the fact that JT hasn't won the popular vote in the last 2 elections.

It's OK when the system works against people you don't support. It's only bad when it fucks your people up.

I am a bit different than most. I think Chuck is a bit of a pile of derp but if strange women in ponds give him the sword so be it.

 

[NotADcotor]

Trudeau did win the popular vote in the 2015 Elections.

He did say the last 2 elections. 2015 would have been 3 elections ago. Just saying.

 

[Darts]

Because Bin Ladin had a beef with the USA, not Bush.

Clinton had several opportunities to take down OBL but he (OBL) always traveled with an entourage of women and children to ward off any attack by the U.S.

The airplane hijackers got their air training in the U.S. and never practiced landings. Many people had their suspicions but said nothing because............................

 

[bver_hunter]

He did say the last 2 elections. 2015 would have been 3 elections ago. Just saying.

Yes, I am fully aware of it and wanted the record to be set straight that at least he won an election including the popularity votes as compared to the other parties.
Trump on the other hand did not reach that standard, and lost the popular votes on all the occasions that he ran. Moreover, he just could not accept the fact that his ass was spanked in the elections and all he did to this day is to spread the misinformation that the elections were either "rigged" or "stolen"!!

 

[Valcazar]

Because Bin Ladin had a beef with the USA, not Bush. The planning would have moved forward either way. And remember it was the CIA that dropped the intel ball. The analysis would still have been the same people, with the same "garbage in garbage out" projections.

The key to the attack's success was it's audacity, originality, and the willingness of the hijackers to die. Especially the latter. You really can't stop fanatics.

You have no way to be sure of this.
The Bush administration pivoted away from making OBL and the terrorism threat in general a priority.
We don't know what the situation would have been concerning intelligence failures if that was different.

People confidently stating for sure either way are talking out of their ass.

 

[Butler1000]

You have no way to be sure of this.
The Bush administration pivoted away from making OBL and the terrorism threat in general a priority.
We don't know what the situation would have been concerning intelligence failures if that was different.

People confidently stating for sure either way are talking out of their ass.

They were going to attack somehow. They already had done so. And they weren't suddenly going to stop. They were fanatics.

 

[fall]

They were going to attack somehow. They already had done so. And they weren't suddenly going to stop. They were fanatics.

The "war against terrorism" started at tat time reminds me of "Canadian Bacon" movie.

 

[Butler1000]

The "war against terrorism" started at tat time reminds me of "Canadian Bacon" movie.

Oh I agree they used it as an excuse to go into Iraq illegally. But OBL had radicalized from his family long before then. We are going back to the Origional WTS bombing and USS Cole attack amongst others. Al Queda was not going to stop due to who was in office.

 

[Carvher]

Without the current system, the country would have broken up long ago. California would have too much sway.

Texas would have broken off for sure. The Us would probably be 3 ot 4 different countries by now.

Current system keeps it together.
Maybe it should split up but it's stronger together.

 

[Valcazar]

They were going to attack somehow. They already had done so. And they weren't suddenly going to stop. They were fanatics.

But they weren't necessarily going to succeed.
It took 8 years between the two WTC attacks.
Since then plane attacks have been ineffective.

Even if you believe the fanatics are unstoppable and someone is eventually going to succeed in an attack it doesn't mean it is an attack as spectacular.

Anyone who says 9/11 absolutely doesn't happen is dreaming and wrong and anyone who says it absolutely does is dreaming and wrong.

 

[Valcazar]

Without the current system, the country would have broken up long ago. California would have too much sway.

Texas would have broken off for sure. The Us would probably be 3 ot 4 different countries by now.

Current system keeps it together.
Maybe it should split up but it's stronger together.

This is arrant nonsense.
There is nothing the electoral college does to keep the country together.

How would California have too much sway if it was a straight national vote?
You do know more people voted Republican in California than in Texas, right?

 

[NotADcotor]

Moreover, he just could not accept the fact that his ass was spanked in the elections

I wouldn't call it an ass spanking. It should have been an ass spanking considering what a pyschotic mook Trump was being even before the election. Biden should have taken a 2 to 1 lead, it should have been even higher but political cultists are going to cult. 51 to 47 is a solid win, just not BDSM level win.

 

[silentkisser]

If Gore was in office 9/11 would not have happened.

Prove me wrong.

Nobody can prove you wrong on a question like that. I think in this case the burden of proof would be on you to show 9/11 wouldn't have happened. For me, I doubt Al-Qaeda would have abandoned the plan just because Gore was elected. I know some blame the drawn out process of deciding the election as a contributing factor that allowed the plot to happen. But, I also don't think the interdepartmental issues the US intelligence network faced would have been smoothed over. So, while there is a chance Gore's administration (or even Bush's if the election was decided on election day) might have stopped the attack, I highly doubt they would have.

So, with 9/11 happening, we'd definitely see an invasion of Afghanistan. Iraq, well, that was a neo-con wet dream about taking the dictators out of the Middle East. So, that is a 50/50 chance of happening. But, without Iraq falling, we would likely not have seen the Arab Spring, the rise of ISIS, the collapse of Syria and lord knows what else. The past 20 years has been a disaster for that region. Democracy was not embraced. Instead, terror groups flourished to fight the infidel invaders. It's a blood mess, that's for sure.

 

[silentkisser]

This is arrant nonsense.
There is nothing the electoral college does to keep the country together.

How would California have too much sway if it was a straight national vote?
You do know more people voted Republican in California than in Texas, right?

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the electoral college helps make flyover states relevant. Do you think anyone would bother to campaign in the Dakotas if there wasn't the EC? All the campaigning would be done in CA, TX, NY, FL, PA, IL, OH, GA, NC and MI.

Also, if the presidency was decided with a straight up direct vote, then the Dems would have won the last 8 elections (if I'm remembering correctly). The last GOP president to win the popular vote with Bush Sr.. I'm not including Bush Jr. second term because it was still so close to 9/11 and the country was in the midst of two wars. That might be unfair, but I remember how he was going before the attack. It would have been hard for him to rebound and get re-elected without the attack and following wars.

 

[dirtydaveiii]

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the electoral college helps make flyover states relevant. Do you think anyone would bother to campaign in the Dakotas if there wasn't the EC? All the campaigning would be done in CA, TX, NY, FL, PA, IL, OH, GA, NC and MI.

Also, if the presidency was decided with a straight up direct vote, then the Dems would have won the last 8 elections (if I'm remembering correctly). The last GOP president to win the popular vote with Bush Sr.. I'm not including Bush Jr. second term because it was still so close to 9/11 and the country was in the midst of two wars. That might be unfair, but I remember how he was going before the attack. It would have been hard for him to rebound and get re-elected without the attack and following wars.

No chance in hell W wins a 2nd term without 9/11. I believe 9/11 happens with gore but the response much different. No chance in he'll Iraq happens - it was all the doing of a very corrupt GOP

 

[Butler1000]

But they weren't necessarily going to succeed.
It took 8 years between the two WTC attacks.
Since then plane attacks have been ineffective.

Even if you believe the fanatics are unstoppable and someone is eventually going to succeed in an attack it doesn't mean it is an attack as spectacular.

Anyone who says 9/11 absolutely doesn't happen is dreaming and wrong and anyone who says it absolutely does is dreaming and wrong.

Thats just about the most wishy-washy non statement I've seen from you. Fuck I clearly stated some sort of attack would have occurred.

But what the hell remote evidence is there that the FBI would have done anything different? Seriously who the hell in Western Civilization would have remotely thought 19 human beings would kill themselves by flying planes into the WTC, Pentagon, and presumably the WH? It was the same people out on the field. They would have made the same mistakes. Thats the point.

And those are real facts.

 

[|2 /-\ | /|/]

I constantly imagine a world where crypto technology solves the many issues faced with current voting systems around the worlds.

 

[NotADcotor]

Do you think anyone would bother to campaign in the Dakotas if there wasn't the EC?

In theory it's true but does anyone actually bother to campaign in the Dakotas anyway?

 

[silentkisser]

In theory it's true but does anyone actually bother to campaign in the Dakotas anyway?

Well....um......er....I know Trump made multiple trips there while President....And I remember Bill went there on Hillary's behalf in 2016.....