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I'm a forensic psychiatrist at Yale. I took a look at Trump's letter to Nancy Pelosi

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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I don't think it was a professional diagnosis that would be admissible in court. It could be easily argued that it is an informed opinion he has based on, not only this letter but, all the other glimpses all of us get from watching trump's tweets, interviews, speeches etc. We all have our own opinions of trump, but his is more informed.
We are (well, I am) referring specifically to the Goldwater Rule. Weighing in on a public figure like that is considered unethical by the APA. The letter writers know this and have expressly said why they think they need to break the rule anyway. I understand their reasoning but I disagree with it.
 

wilbur

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Jan 19, 2004
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I didn't say it was meaningless. I said it was rambling. It is badly written and kind of all over the place. The actual meaning is clear enough - he makes his points.
The word 'rambling' quickly spread around the Democratic controlled corporate mainstream media. The latter, fully commenting on the letter, never actually revealed its full content.

This is an example of present day propaganda, where many people let the media think for them.

But there is a shift now in the US, as more and more people start doubting the veracity of the so-called news, resulting in millions of people switching off mainstream media.

That explains why the Food Channel has a higher viewer rating than CNN.

The backlash is growing, with the result that, despite his failings, Trump's approval ratings are actually increasing, and he is now projected to win the next elections.

This 'rambling' letter, not written by Trump, is a point-by-point rebuttal of the Democratic Party controlled House of Representatives politically motivated impeachment trial, and is clearly meant as a historical record.

Call it what you want, the 'rambling' letter will stand in history as a rebuke to the Democrat controlled House of Representatives of the 116th US Congress.
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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Her job is oversight of the President remember. The exact reason they are giving for impeachment. It's the job of the committee to be a check on power. Remember?

And I would say that rendering for torture, breaking US laws, breaking the Geneva Convention and commiting war crimes are cause to go public in her position as opposition oversight.

She didn't, she agreed with it.
Which in effect makes her in agreement with the policy of torture.
So everyone who doesn't go public with something automatically agrees with it?
That's an interesting standard.

I will take this moment to point out you still haven't produced these Afghanistan Papers that prove what you are saying. The public database is here. I couldn't find it but I may just not know how to search it effectively. Since you say these papers prove it, I presume you already know where to find the relevant information.

[...]realize both party leadership's are responsible for the Iraq war and the war crimes committed.
Is there a single person arguing this?
 

Valcazar

Just a bundle of fucking sunshine
Mar 27, 2014
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The word 'rambling' quickly spread around the Democratic controlled corporate mainstream media. The latter, fully commenting on the letter, never actually revealed its full content.
That's not true. Most articles had a link to the letter. Just about every one I can think of. TV wouldn't of course, but most places aren't going to read a 6-page letter on air. (I doubt even Fox did that.)

This is an example of present day propaganda, where many people let the media think for them.
The sad quality of mainstream news is a huge problem in the US. Look how hard they lean over to normalize Trump. Look at how they kneecapped the fuck out of Clinton. Add in that you have Sinclair and Fox as explicit propaganda networks (rather than just "play it safe to the powers that be and don't rock the boat" impulses which cause so much of the mainstream news to fuck up) and it is a huge problem for the country.

But there is a shift now in the US, as more and more people start doubting the veracity of the so-called news, resulting in millions of people switching off mainstream media.

That explains why the Food Channel has a higher viewer rating than CNN.
No. It doesn't. People prefer entertainment to news. They always have. You can get good ratings for news when something is going on, but normally it won't compete. Making news channels have to be profit centers in their own right was a disaster, since it meant they had to go for "entertaining" more than "informative". It's been downhill ever since.

The backlash is growing, with the result that, despite his failings, Trump's approval ratings are actually increasing, and he is now projected to win the next elections.
No they aren't. I asked you to provide evidence for this before and you admitted you were pulling it out of your ass. He *does* have tighter numbers in election predictions, as one would expect as the actual election year starts. But overall his numbers are exactly where they have been since early in his term - about 10 points underwater.
 
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shack

Nitpicker Extraordinaire
Oct 2, 2001
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We are (well, I am) referring specifically to the Goldwater Rule. Weighing in on a public figure like that is considered unethical by the APA.
Interesting. The APA can set their standards, howver I do not believe that they are a licensing body of any kind. As such they could possibly sanction him within their particular organization (he may not even be a member), but since they are not a regulatory body, this particular breach would not affect his ability to practice, unless his own regional regulatory body has adopted the same policy. If this breach means no effect on his practice, it is reasonable to say that this is a very minor breach. A breach of privacy legislation, for example, would definitely come with some kind of sanctions/punishment. So some infraction that carries no punitive consequences could, for all intents and purposes, be considered a "nothing burger".
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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So everyone who doesn't go public with something automatically agrees with it?
That's an interesting standard.

I will take this moment to point out you still haven't produced these Afghanistan Papers that prove what you are saying. The public database is here. I couldn't find it but I may just not know how to search it effectively. Since you say these papers prove it, I presume you already know where to find the relevant information.



Is there a single person arguing this?
When it involves torture and war crimes? Breaking the Geneva Convention?

If that isn't a reason what the hell is?!?!?
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Her job is oversight of the President remember. The exact reason they are giving for impeachment. It's the job of the committee to be a check on power. Remember?

And I would say that rendering for torture, breaking US laws, breaking the Geneva Convention and commiting war crimes are cause to go public in her position as opposition oversight.

She didn't, she agreed with it.

Which in effect makes her in agreement with the policy of torture.

And yes any Republicans are also guilty.

Stop being a partisan tool. And finally realize both party leadership's are responsible for the Iraq war and the war crimes committed.
Read this actual fact that explains why you are a partisan right winger who just hates the Democrats. Pelosi was the MINORITY leader. The President was Bus and the majority leader was a Republican. Fox News tries it's best in a very biased and partisan manner to blame Pelosi, when 99.9999% of the blame should have been pointed at Bush and the Republicans:

Nancy Pelosi, Torture, and Bush’s Warmongering:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nanc...NvbS8&guce_referrer_cs=sLP06VGb6UJFdbi8l3hsLg

You are a very partisan character that tries to camouflage your true colours when hiding under the shadow of a Bernie Sanders "Supporter". Yet you refuse to agree that Trump is to blame for the genocide against the Kurds. You are truly a Trump supporter in reality!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Read this actual fact that explains why you are a partisan right winger who just hates the Democrats. Pelosi was the MINORITY leader. The President was Bus and the majority leader was a Republican. Fox News tries it's best in a very biased and partisan manner to blame Pelosi, when 99.9999% of the blame should have been pointed at Bush and the Republicans:

Nancy Pelosi, Torture, and Bush’s Warmongering:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/nanc...NvbS8&guce_referrer_cs=sLP06VGb6UJFdbi8l3hsLg

You are a very partisan character that tries to camouflage your true colours when hiding under the shadow of a Bernie Sanders "Supporter". Yet you refuse to agree that Trump is to blame for the genocide against the Kurds. You are truly a Trump supporter in reality!!
As a sitting member of Congress and on the committee she could have said something. Later when she was Majority leader she could have said and done something.

She didn't. Stop making excuses for a leader who condoned torture.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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As a sitting member of Congress and on the committee she could have said something. Later when she was Majority leader she could have said and done something.

She didn't. Stop making excuses for a leader who condoned torture.
Not making excuses for Bush and his Republicans who set up this torture. As that article specified that Pelosi had to keep it confidential at a time of bitter conflict. See how partisan you are by not squarely blaming Bush and his Republicans. It is clear that you are the one making the excuses by deflecting the blame on Pelosi. Still have to hear you condemn Trump for his role in the genocide of the ally called the Kurds. You have lost all credibility!!
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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Not making excuses for Bush and his Republicans who set up this torture. As that article specified that Pelosi had to keep it confidential at a time of bitter conflict. See how partisan you are by not squarely blaming Bush and his Republicans. It is clear that you are the one making the excuses by deflecting the blame on Pelosi. Still have to hear you condemn Trump for his role in the genocide of the ally called the Kurds. You have lost all credibility!!
Let's be clear. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, along with the heads of the CIA should be before the Hague for war crimes.

Is that enough for you?

However none of them are in office at the moment and continuing to affect foreign and domestic policy. Pelosi is, and is Majority Leader.

So yes I can and will criticize her for her condoning of torture.

Why are you defending and deflecting for her?
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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Let's be clear. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, along with the heads of the CIA should be before the Hague for war crimes.

Is that enough for you?

However none of them are in office at the moment and continuing to affect foreign and domestic policy. Pelosi is, and is Majority Leader.

So yes I can and will criticize her for her condoning of torture.

Why are you defending and deflecting for her?
How about Trump, should he not even take any blame for the genocide of the Kurds??

Again read the article about how Pelosi's hands were tied, as she was subjected to the confidentiality of that information during the time of conflict. You squarely blamed her, though she was the MINORITY LEADER. So are you saying that she should have spoken out when there was a conflict against Al Qaeda, who were conducting acts of terrorism?
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
29,017
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How about Trump, should he not even take any blame for the genocide of the Kurds??

Again read the article about how Pelosi's hands were tied, as she was subjected to the confidentiality of that information during the time of conflict. You squarely blamed her, though she was the MINORITY LEADER. So are you saying that she should have spoken out when there was a conflict against Al Qaeda, who were conducting acts of terrorism?
How can they call themselves the good guys when they torture people?

Yes, she should have, because torture is an evil act. Are you now saying the torture was justified?
 

jcpro

Well-known member
Jan 31, 2014
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How can they call themselves the good guys when they torture people?

Yes, she should have, because torture is an evil act. Are you now saying the torture was justified?
LOL!! Now, you can understand how Tulsi is feeling, these days. Like her, you're not sufficiently anti Trump. There's no recovery from that and all your opinions will forever be tainted by being a reactionary. It's like being back behind the Iron Curtain in the 60s all over again. But, be of good cheer. They can't fire you from your job. YET.
 

Frankfooter

dangling member
Apr 10, 2015
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How can they call themselves the good guys when they torture people?

Yes, she should have, because torture is an evil act. Are you now saying the torture was justified?
Blame the people at the top, like Bush.
Trump backs torture, by the way.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/26/politics/donald-trump-torture-waterboarding/index.html

'Course he loves American war criminals and despots who torture as well.
Biggest defender of mister bone saw and his team, for instance.

If anyone is bringing back torture its Dirty Don.
 

Butler1000

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2011
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wilbur

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Jan 19, 2004
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That's not true. Most articles had a link to the letter. Just about every one I can think of. TV wouldn't of course, but most places aren't going to read a 6-page letter on air. (I doubt even Fox did that.)



The sad quality of mainstream news is a huge problem in the US. Look how hard they lean over to normalize Trump. Look at how they kneecapped the fuck out of Clinton. Add in that you have Sinclair and Fox as explicit propaganda networks (rather than just "play it safe to the powers that be and don't rock the boat" impulses which cause so much of the mainstream news to fuck up) and it is a huge problem for the country.



No. It doesn't. People prefer entertainment to news. They always have. You can get good ratings for news when something is going on, but normally it won't compete. Making news channels have to be profit centers in their own right was a disaster, since it meant they had to go for "entertaining" more than "informative". It's been downhill ever since.



No they aren't. I asked you to provide evidence for this before and you admitted you were pulling it out of your ass. He *does* have tighter numbers in election predictions, as one would expect as the actual election year starts. But overall his numbers are exactly where they have been since early in his term - about 10 points underwater.

This 'rambling' letter, not written by Trump, is a point-by-point rebuttal of the Democratic Party controlled House of Representatives politically motivated impeachment trial, and is clearly meant as a historical record.

Call it what you want, the 'rambling' letter will stand in history as a rebuke to the Democrat controlled House of Representatives of the 116th US Congress.
[/QUOTE]

The mainstream media have kneecaped Clinton? You mean CNN, MSNBC, NYT, WaPo etc? You gotta be kidding. They have been anti Trump from the getgo. The only pro Trump media has been Fox.

Ask me for evidence again? You think you're in some sort of trial here? Besides, you never have any yourself. If you don't like my OPINIONS, you can get your own evidence. And if I do give you evidence, you simply ignore it.

Imagine sitting in a tavern and discussing politics over a beer (which is really the type of discussion going on here), and you kept on asking your drinking mates to supply you with evidence. You'd find yourself drinking alone in short order, except for a remaining echo chamber that has nothing really to discuss.

The US fake progressives: they go along blithly with their heads in the sand, unable to face reality, only to come to a great shock when things wind up different than the narrative. In the case of the last US elections, they had to conjure up a fake 'Russia did it' narrative in order to save face, hiding the fact that Hillary's campaign was a political disaster, allowing another slightly less repugnant candidate to win. Trump is going to win, and the delusional Democrats are actually helping him along, having almost ignored any serious legislative agenda.
 

wilbur

Active member
Jan 19, 2004
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How about Trump, should he not even take any blame for the genocide of the Kurds??

Again read the article about how Pelosi's hands were tied, as she was subjected to the confidentiality of that information during the time of conflict. You squarely blamed her, though she was the MINORITY LEADER. So are you saying that she should have spoken out when there was a conflict against Al Qaeda, who were conducting acts of terrorism?

Genocide of the Kurds? The definition of genocide is being ever expanded, and is an insult to those people who actually went through it.

Yes, the US/Trump double crossed the Kurds, but there was no genocide. Ironically, the Kurds invited the Syrian Army into the territories they controlled in order to defend them against the Turks and allied jihadist
mercenaries.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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How can they call themselves the good guys when they torture people?

Yes, she should have, because torture is an evil act. Are you now saying the torture was justified?
Those are questions that you should have posed to the Republicans as they are the ones who sanctioned it. I am not saying that torture is justified. So stop putting words in my mouth. Once again you just are not condemning Trump for his actions in the attack by the Turks against the Kurds. Maybe you think that it is fine in the manner in which he pulled out this troops without a truce for their safety!!
 

Butler1000

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Oct 31, 2011
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Those are questions that you should have posed to the Republicans as they are the ones who sanctioned it. I am not saying that torture is justified. So stop putting words in my mouth. Once again you just are not condemning Trump for his actions in the genocide of the Kurds. Maybe you think that it is fine in the manner in which he pulled out this troops without a truce for their safety!!
If you are saying it's wrong, then Pelosi is wrong.

It's that simple.

And in doing so, you expose her hypocrisy.

We are talking about allowing torture to continue. There is no going back from that.
 

bver_hunter

Well-known member
Nov 5, 2005
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If you are saying it's wrong, then Pelosi is wrong.

It's that simple.

And in doing so, you expose her hypocrisy.

We are talking about allowing torture to continue. There is no going back from that.
The Republicans led by Bush were the ones that sanctioned the torture. You seem to give them a pass just like you do to Trump. Why do you not admit that they are the main culprits in this respect, just like Trump with his actions against the Kurds!!
 
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