"I Am a Palestinian in Gaza and Hamas must Cede Control"

[Frankfooter]

No.
You intentionally misrepresented and lied about my post.
Here is my post:
"I skimmed through the document.
Does not show intent to commit genocide.
It says Israeli actions amount to genocide."
I clearly say it does not show intent to commit genocide, but alleges that Israel is infact committing one.
The document is an allegation.
Not a judgement.
Stop lying.
Stop misrepresenting posts and putting words in my mouth.

You just confirmed that what I said is accurate, that you admitted the UN says Israel is committing genocide.
Now you are trying to ride that line between willful ignorance and not reading the report and having to read the report and defend your claims, which you know to be false. If you read the report you have to defend your argument, which you can't do. If you don't read the report its admitting you are willfully ignorant.


Its very easy to prove.
If you are so sure Israel isn't committing genocide read the UN report and tell us what they got wrong.
Refusing to read the report is willful ignorance, and if you choose that path you shouldn't post anything here.

So read the report and state with quotes what you say I've gotten wrong.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/thematic-reports/a79363-report-special-committee-investigate-israeli-practices-affecting

 

[Frankfooter]

It's amazing how you only seem to debate people who lie and you're the only honest one. You're a joke. Nobody believes anything you say and you are looking more and more like a fool every day. Every day more people want you gone from here.

Klatu just showed I was right and Vinson was lying.
Deal with it, Shazi.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You just confirmed that what I said is accurate, that you admitted the UN says Israel is committing genocide.
Now you are trying to ride that line between willful ignorance and not reading the report and having to read the report and defend your claims, which you know to be false. If you read the report you have to defend your argument, which you can't do. If you don't read the report its admitting you are willfully ignorant.


Its very easy to prove.
If you are so sure Israel isn't committing genocide read the UN report and tell us what they got wrong.
Refusing to read the report is willful ignorance, and if you choose that path you shouldn't post anything here.

So read the report and state with quotes what you say I've gotten wrong.

https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/thematic-reports/a79363-report-special-committee-investigate-israeli-practices-affecting

You just confirmed you are nothing more than a liar with whom there is no point engaging.
I did no such thing.
Stop putting words in people's mouth.
No one knows whether Israel is guilty of genocide.
That is for the ICJ to rule on and they have not.
Your report is not a judgement.
It is an allegation.

 

[NotADcotor]

No one knows whether Israel is guilty of genocide.
That is for the ICJ to rule on and they have not.
Your report is not a judgement.
It is an allegation.

I know they are not guilty.

 

[Klatuu]

It's amazing how you only seem to debate people who lie and you're the only honest one. You're a joke. Nobody believes anything you say and you are looking more and more like a fool every day. Every day more people want you gone from here.

Childish

 

[Klatuu]

This is why Frank has lost my respect. Anything except parroting what Frank re-posts causes him to make false and slanderous statements asserting <failing to do whatever> is "clear evidence" that "you support genocide", or "You are a zionist" (FFS, I didn't even know what that meant until October 7!) , "you are a Nazi" or blah blah blah....

Guy is so obsessed that he fails to recognize that I belelive Palestinians are entitled to their lands, freedom, self-determination and to be free from needless violence. But where I think he goes off is that I say Palestinians are free from this from Israel and Hamas/Hezbollah.

How many times have we heard this whine?

 

[Frankfooter]

You just confirmed you are nothing more than a liar with whom there is no point engaging.
I did no such thing.
Stop putting words in people's mouth.
No one knows whether Israel is guilty of genocide.
That is for the ICJ to rule on and they have not.
Your report is not a judgement.
It is an allegation.

The UN reported that Israel is committing genocide.
Claiming that 'no one knows' is idiotic given that I provided you with a detailed and well documented report that finds that Israel is committing genocide.

You even admitted the report says Israel is committing genocide then declared 'no one knows'.

Most people would and should look at allegations of genocide and take precautions to make sure they don't back genocide because its the most fucking evil thing that humans can do to others. You, on the other hand, declared that you have moved the goal posts and will only accept the ruling from an ICJ trial.

The UN report is not the only report. If you wait until an ICJ ruling you will have spent years defending genocide knowing that even if not 100% confirmed, you were knowingly supporting genocide. Is that really what you want?

 

[Frankfooter]

How many times have we heard this whine?

Its not aging well, definite vinegar tint.

Instead we get these people suffering from sunk cost fallacies. They've spent years defending Israel and pushing its racist mentality and to admit that they were wrong and became nazi like racial supremacists who argued for more genocide is a change they cannot make.

This would be a good time to research how Germans recovered after the nazis. They will need massive therapy.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

The UN reported that Israel is committing genocide.
Claiming that 'no one knows' is idiotic given that I provided you with a detailed and well documented report that finds that Israel is committing genocide.

You even admitted the report says Israel is committing genocide then declared 'no one knows'.

Most people would and should look at allegations of genocide and take precautions to make sure they don't back genocide because its the most fucking evil thing that humans can do to others. You, on the other hand, declared that you have moved the goal posts and will only accept the ruling from an ICJ trial.

The UN report is not the only report. If you wait until an ICJ ruling you will have spent years defending genocide knowing that even if not 100% confirmed, you were knowingly supporting genocide. Is that really what you want?

It is a report.
Not a judgement.
That has to be ruled on by the ICJ.
Allegations should be taken seriously.
But they don't amount to a judgement.
Whether you like it or not that is the objective truth.

 

[Frankfooter]

It is a report.
Not a judgement.
That has to be ruled on by the ICJ.
Allegations should be taken seriously.
But they don't amount to a judgement.
Whether you like it or not that is the objective truth.

On what basis do you think that report is wrong?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

On what basis do you think that report is wrong?

Quote me where I said the report was wrong?
Quote me where I said the report was right?
Why do you try to put words in people's mouth?
I said the report makes claims of genocide.
But it is still a report.
Not a judgement.
What part of this isn't clear to you?

 

[Frankfooter]

Quote me where I said the report was wrong?
Quote me where I said the report was right?
Why do you try to put words in people's mouth?
I said the report makes claims of genocide.
But it is still a report.
Not a judgement.
What part of this isn't clear to you?

You claim you read the report and that 'no one can know' if Israel is committing genocide.
That report details evidence and references other reports, it clearly shows Israel is committing genocide.

So clearly you read the report and think its wrong.
Or, you didn't read the report and decided you will operate out of willful ignorance.

Make a statement, did you read the report and are arguing its wrong?
Or are you refusing to read the report to maintain your willful ignorance and to claim 'no one can know'?

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

You claim you read the report and that 'no one can know' if Israel is committing genocide.
That report details evidence and references other reports, it clearly shows Israel is committing genocide.

So clearly you read the report and think its wrong.
Or, you didn't read the report and decided you will operate out of willful ignorance.

Make a statement, did you read the report and are arguing its wrong?
Or are you refusing to read the report to maintain your willful ignorance and to claim 'no one can know'?

I read the report.
It makes claims of genocide.
It clearly proves nothing.
That has to be adjudicated at the ICJ.
A report is not a judgement.

 

[Frankfooter]

I read the report.
It makes claims of genocide.
It clearly proves nothing.
That has to be adjudicated at the ICJ.
A report is not a judgement.

Clearly that means you think the report is wrong.
Why?

Quote what you think the report got wrong with references to back up your claim.

 

[Klatuu]

You just confirmed you are nothing more than a liar with whom there is no point engaging.
I did no such thing.
Stop putting words in people's mouth.
No one knows whether Israel is guilty of genocide.
That is for the ICJ to rule on and they have not.
Your report is not a judgement.
It is an allegation.

It’s long past being an allegation. Competent and credible organizations have already conducted investigations and published the evidence leading to the conclusion of genocide. These groups have taken on the role of stopping and preventing a genocide in real time. They are the heroes of our time.

The ICJ has never played the role of preventing an ongoing genocide in real time. If anyone is waiting for an ICJ finding to assist in preventing the ongoing genocide, they are naive or disingenuous. .

More importantly, anyone waiting for an ICJ finding before addressing the genocide in real time, will become on of those people whose silence allowed war crimes to happen that much easier.

There is no downside to addressing this as a genocide. Conversely, staying silent will facilitate another unspeakable Palestinian tragedy.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

Clearly that means you think the report is wrong.
Why?

Quote what you think the report got wrong with references to back up your claim.

No that clearly either means you cannot read, or you have a pathological need to put words in people's mouth.
The report basically collates previously alleged crimes and previously known information.
Whether or not these amount to collateral damage, legitimate military actions, war crimes or genocide is to be ruled on by the ICJ.
A report concluding that "it is genocide" doesn't mean it is genocide.
That has to be adjudicated in court.
This is the fourth or fifth time I am repeating this to you.
I wont repeat this further.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

There is no downside to addressing this as a genocide. Conversely, staying silent will facilitate another unspeakable Palestinian tragedy.

There is the downside that it may not actually qualify as a genocide.
It may even qualify as a war crime but not genocide.
Genocide has a high bar that is very difficult to prove.
Specifically intent by the STATE.
Not the extreme comments by some of its far right politicians.
So it has to be adjudicated in a court.
Apart from that, yes, there is every upside to ending the war and that would prevent further Palestinian deaths.
But it does not have to be addressed as a genocide for the war to stop.

 

[Klatuu]

No that clearly either means you cannot read, or you have a pathological need to put words in people's mouth.
The report basically collates previously alleged crimes and previously known information.
Whether or not these amount to collateral damage, legitimate military actions, war crimes or genocide is to be ruled on by the ICJ.
A report concluding that "it is genocide" doesn't mean it is genocide.
That has to be adjudicated in court.
This is the fourth or fifth time I am repeating this to you.
I wont repeat this further.

An ICJ finding has never been a precondition for identifying a genocide. It never has been. It is just a post conflict tool as its history has shown.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

An ICJ finding has never been a precondition for identifying a genocide. It never has been. It is just a post conflict tool as its history has shown.

Genocide cannot be proven anywhere else.
I dont think pro-Palestinians should be hung up on proving genocide either.
What if the genocide claim fails? The deaths dont matter then?

 

[Klatuu]

Genocide cannot be proven anywhere else.

That’s patently false but you can prove me wrong. Give us the source that says it’s the necessary pre condition for the identification of genocide.

By, that definition, the Holocaust was not a genocide.