How long before Canadians get mad??

[langeweile]

In a further twist to the Adscam scandal that has rocked Canada and nearly cost the Liberal Party its ruling status, records revealed at the Gomery Inquiry show that the Liberals have set up a "war room" for Gomery-related public relations using taxpayer money:

http://www.canada.com/national/features/gomery/story.html?id=9bc7722a-dabe-4b81-8785-c49e9db9def2

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/news/shownews.jsp?content=n052419A

Paul Martin, in effect, has defended his party's money-laundering and tax-fraud operations by using even more taxpayer money for a public-relations campaign. In effect, it resembles the UN's oil-for-food defense, where they have continued to use the money that Turtle Bay took from the Iraqis for managing the program in order to cover up the corruption that took billions from the victims. While Martin's chutzpah has the virtue of a much smaller scale, it has the exact same vice of stealing from the same victims a second time to cover up the initial crimes committed against them.

The timing on this revelation seems suspiciously helpful to the Grits as well. Why didn't anyone mention this before the no-confidence vote? Perhaps because it might have affected the votes of the independents, such as Chuck Cadman. One wonders how he feels about his vote now, the one that kept the Liberals in office to continue their exploitation of tax money for their own political purposes.

Jack Layton also bears responsibility for this continuing embarrassment; the NDP leader should have insisted on full transparency on any such arrangement that could reflect poorly on his decision to ally himself with Martin and the Liberals. If he did insist on it and was not informed of this new scandal, then he should pull out of the alliance and call for a new confidence motion immediately. If he didn't bother to insist on disclosures, or if he knew about this and abetted it, then the NDP should demand his resignation, for incompetence if nothing else. If the NDP remains allied with the Grits, they have to accept complicity for the ongoing corruption this represents.

I seem to recall Canadian voters expressing discomfort with Stephen Harper's putative "hidden agenda". Have they had enough of Paul Martin's to finally demand a change?

Don't you guys ever get mad?
It is enough to make my blood boil and I am not even Canadian.

 

[Cinema Face]

They won't get mad. They just pay their taxes and hope they never have to use the health care system.

 

[bigpackage]

We never get mad. Look at our peace keepers, they went over to afganistan went in the middel of all the fighting and said break it up guy's, we brough bacon for everybody.

 

[altamagna]

The masses who voted for Jean Chretien the last time are still pretending that that was a brilliant idea and don't want to admit that Chretien just fucked them over.

 

[red]

people may be mad, but given the situation with the Bloc and the social policies of the Alliance - they don't see any choices. the NDP? no thanks

 

[Diode]

How come "social Policies" have become more important than "good Government"? Govenment for all the people, not just a select few?

Please tell me which social polices, you think the "scary" cons. party is going to demolish?

 

[blitz]

How come "social Policies" have become more important than "good Government"? Govenment for all the people, not just a select few?

Please tell me which social polices, you think the "scary" cons. party is going to demolish?

Women's rights
Gay rights
Minority rights/Immigration
Public healthcare
Public daycare
Environmental laws (which are still to lax)
Health spending
Education spending
Equality of religion

All of these key "social" issues are better served by the devil we already know.

 

[langeweile]

Women's rights
Gay rights
Minority rights/Immigration
Public healthcare
Public daycare
Environmental laws (which are still to lax)
Health spending
Education spending
Equality of religion

All of these key "social" issues are better served by the devil we already know.

WOW I am speechless

 

[blitz]

WOW I am speechless

...hardly but possibly clueless.

Until the Federal Conservatives find solid leadership and eliminate any and all ties to Reform members and their policies then these issues are in jeopardy by the Con party.

The majority of Canadians will not have a socially irresponsible government in power so the choice defaults to a fiscally irresponsible government.

 

[Diode]

Women's rights
Gay rights
Minority rights/Immigration
Public healthcare
Public daycare
Environmental laws (which are still to lax)
Health spending
Education spending
Equality of religion

All of these key "social" issues are better served by the devil we already know.

You gotta be kidding, Right?

Woman's Rights: Don't Confuse Abortion Policy with Woman's Rights.
It's posible to be Pro woman and Pro Life !
In fact, half of all abortions wil result in the Termination of a woman-to-be.

Gay rights: Has Haper said Gay people are not intitled to the same basic rights as straights? Don't give me the gay marriage thing as a retort. We use different words to describe Homo, and Hetro-sexuals...We should use different words to describe Homo and Hetro Partner ships

Minority Rights?Immigration: UM, what have the conservatives said that will stop or change either. And what do you say about the more ethnically diverse Conservative party, as compared to the Grits? A rouse?

Public Healthcare:If you truly buy the party line that Canada has world leading Healthcare, you are simply FOOLISH, and have had the wool pulled over your eyes. Investigate the worlds systems (My business) and you will be shocked by the pathetic Canadian System. Oh and what about MY rights? It's ILLEGAL for me to buy medically nessesary healthcare in Canada, I must wait my turn. The Law. And unfair!

Public Daycare: We don't need it. If I did not have to pay so much Tax, my wife could stay home with the kids. Public Daycare will add a further tax burden, and even more couples, will have to become dual income earners. This is a foolish, waste of money, AND adds to allready oversized government.

Environmental Laws: Sorry I disagree. We've stalled all reasonable development to "worry" about the environment. We must put human advancement first. I know not popular with the NEW religion of environmentalism> However the state force feeding of this religion does nothing but take away Human drive to build and achive.

Health Spending: see above!

Education Spending: Further wastefull goverment programs that line the "educrats" pockets, while still delivering poor results? Shake it up! Spend less and DEMAND more! Home school. Oh and by the way, where is the IVY Leauge? Canada? Or the evil US?

Equality of Religion: HUH? I thought Canadians were interested in keeping their religion Private. What do we need, a Ministry of Love, that makes sure the numbers of Christans, Jews, Muslims, etc..remains the same?

Wastefull Government effects all Canadians. Throw the bums out!

 

[langeweile]

...hardly but possibly clueless.

Until the Federal Conservatives find solid leadership and eliminate any and all ties to Reform members and their policies then these issues are in jeopardy by the Con party.

The majority of Canadians will not have a socially irresponsible government in power so the choice defaults to a fiscally irresponsible government.

I suggest you take a look to Europe. The reluctants of the Europeans to have sensible (note: I said sensible, not eliminating) social spending has pushed them in a hole, which they will have a hard time to come out.

Already the most affected goverments like France and Germany have to re-think the policies of the past. i.e France is trying to reverse the 35 hour week.
The German chancelllor just got his ass handed to him in a regional election last week.
Small economic growth rates(some of them negative) high taxation, unemployment well above 10% will make it diffcult for most of these countries to get out of this.
The options are:

1) Cut spending

2) Raise Taxes

3) Borrow money.

Neither of those look too sexy to me.

I am not suggesting to do away with all social spending, not at all. A rich country like Canada has the obligation to help the less fortunate. The question is will it be limitless? Until we hit the wall like the Europeans? Or are we going to have a serious and informed discussion?

I don't understand why people don't want to learn from other people's experience?

http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/BusinessWeek/2000/03/06/17000?extID=10032&oliID=213

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901040719-662745,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/article/0,13005,901040719-662737-2,00.html

 

[Truncador]

A huge source of distortion in Canadian politics is the fact of living next door to America. Canadian policies are generally a million miles to the left of those in America, and yet American political debates define the frame of reference for our own. This means that Canadians tend to reason as though Canadian social problems, social policies, and social movements are exactly the same as in America when in fact they aren't even close. Take the Liberal gun control fiasco, for example. In the early 1990s, there was a huge gun violence problem in America, and both Bush Sr. and Clinton brought in some measures to address it. Naturally, the liberal elite here jumped on the bandwagon. What didn't occur to anybody is that Canadian gun laws were already a million times more strict than Federal controls in America, and the homicide rate several hundred per cent lower

The exact same thing is happening right now in the debate over social liberalism. Many Canadians, because they pay more attention to American than to Canadian politics, simply assume that Harper is the local equivalent of Tom Delay or whoever. What they don't realize, and what the media of course doesn't tell them, is that in Canada social conservatism means things like getting rid of the gun registry, keeping the ban on pot, letting Parliament and not the SC decide on gay marriage, etc.

 

[blitz]

You gotta be kidding, Right?

Woman's Rights: Don't Confuse Abortion Policy with Woman's Rights.
It's posible to be Pro woman and Pro Life !
In fact, half of all abortions wil result in the Termination of a woman-to-be.

Gay rights: Has Haper said Gay people are not intitled to the same basic rights as straights? Don't give me the gay marriage thing as a retort. We use different words to describe Homo, and Hetro-sexuals...We should use different words to describe Homo and Hetro Partner ships

Minority Rights?Immigration: UM, what have the conservatives said that will stop or change either. And what do you say about the more ethnically diverse Conservative party, as compared to the Grits? A rouse?

Public Healthcare:If you truly buy the party line that Canada has world leading Healthcare, you are simply FOOLISH, and have had the wool pulled over your eyes. Investigate the worlds systems (My business) and you will be shocked by the pathetic Canadian System. Oh and what about MY rights? It's ILLEGAL for me to buy medically nessesary healthcare in Canada, I must wait my turn. The Law. And unfair!

Public Daycare: We don't need it. If I did not have to pay so much Tax, my wife could stay home with the kids. Public Daycare will add a further tax burden, and even more couples, will have to become dual income earners. This is a foolish, waste of money, AND adds to allready oversized government.

Environmental Laws: Sorry I disagree. We've stalled all reasonable development to "worry" about the environment. We must put human advancement first. I know not popular with the NEW religion of environmentalism> However the state force feeding of this religion does nothing but take away Human drive to build and achive.

Health Spending: see above!

Education Spending: Further wastefull goverment programs that line the "educrats" pockets, while still delivering poor results? Shake it up! Spend less and DEMAND more! Home school. Oh and by the way, where is the IVY Leauge? Canada? Or the evil US?

Equality of Religion: HUH? I thought Canadians were interested in keeping their religion Private. What do we need, a Ministry of Love, that makes sure the numbers of Christans, Jews, Muslims, etc..remains the same?

Wastefull Government effects all Canadians. Throw the bums out!

Feel free to vote Conservative but mark my words, until the Reform elements are removed from that party you will not see a Federal Conservative governemnt in this country.

Perception IS reality and the party is viewed by many as an immigrant hating, gay rights loathing, social cost cutting party that observes only the christian religion while they load their guns, lord over women's bodies and pollute the planet. It's not my fault that they have the shittiest image consultants on the face of the earth and some of the most hateful, redneck, creationist MP's in parliament.

I'll remain provincially Conservative and federally Liberal until they can show me someting different.

 

[langeweile]

......pollute the planet. QUOTE]

You must not have a car..or use electricity..or have anyhting made of plastic..or don't have any household garbage..or use a computer..etc...you too my friend pollute the planet..like it or not..

 

[Diode]

Feel free to vote Conservative but mark my words, until the Reform elements are removed from that party you will not see a Federal Conservative governemnt in this country.

Perception IS reality and the party is viewed by many as an immigrant hating, gay rights loathing, social cost cutting party that observes only the christian religion while they load their guns, lord over women's bodies and pollute the planet. It's not my fault that they have the shittiest image consultants on the face of the earth and some of the most hateful, redneck, creationist MP's in parliament.

I'll remain provincially Conservative and federally Liberal until they can show me someting different.

Unfortunatly, you're right.
Canadians ( I am born and Bred) have changed from a strong and agresive "do something" people, to a group of old ninnies, who worry, dither and "have concerns", about " Oh my gosh...what if?? "

It's too bad, We could sezie the day...but what if someone gets left behind?
How about we just dither.

 

[johnhenrygalt]

Perception is not reality.

But the irrational, hysterical and apoplectic anti-Alberta and anti-Conservative xenophobia has so gripped the urban voters (and media) of Ontario, BC and English-speaking Montreal that the moderate policies espoused by the Conservative party are incorrectly painted as being "extreme".

 

[blitz]

......pollute the planet. QUOTE]
You must not have a car..or use electricity..or have anyhting made of plastic..or don't have any household garbage..or use a computer..etc...you too my friend pollute the planet..like it or not..

Follow the yellow brick road, it leads to wizard where you can get a brain.

I have stated in the past that I actually drive an SUV, eat meat and smoke cigarettes but this is what I do:

I park the SUV 3 days a week and it is well maintained
I walk, bike and blade
All of my water/shower faucets are efficient
All of my lightbulbs are efficient and low watt
I recycle paper/plastic/glass/degradables, actual garbage is a minimum
My hot water heater is powered by solar
Past computers and furniture have been donated to shelters
I conserve wasted water for my indoor plants
I have a rain barrel for outdoor plants
My windows and insulation are up-to-date and energy efficient
Toilet is low flush
Washer, dryer and furnace are as energy efficient as available

and if I knew where you lived I'd have my dog crap on your lawn so that your grass could be greener on this side of the fence.

 

[blitz]

Perception is not reality.

But the irrational, hysterical and apoplectic anti-Alberta and anti-Conservative xenophobia has so gripped the urban voters (and media) of Ontario, BC and English-speaking Montreal that the moderate policies espoused by the Conservative party are incorrectly painted as being "extreme".

Sorry brother, it's not really big gang up.

It's just the fact that the federal conservative party is full of "can't keep their mouth shut" crazies that make the rest of the country trepidacious.

Fact of life in politics. Lose the crazies or shut them up.

 

[blitz]

Unfortunatly, you're right.
Canadians ( I am born and Bred) have changed from a strong and agresive "do something" people, to a group of old ninnies, who worry, dither and "have concerns", about " Oh my gosh...what if?? "
It's too bad, We could sezie the day...but what if someone gets left behind?
How about we just dither.

A fine outlook on this fine country

Perhaps you should join the party and fix it from the inside because someone's gotta give Canadians an alternative. Harper et al are not an option and the majority knows it.

 

[Guy Lafleuer]

I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any longer !!!

Don't you just pine for the good old day's when you could take a politician out and just hang them !

The biggest problem we have in this country is we're just too damn big geographically. What concerns voters in Western Canada has zero effect on what happens on the East Coast. Quebec is another creature unto itself. BC is so far left of any province it's a joke. And in Ontario we've been getting ripped off by numerous elected officials in the past, I think we're just punch drunk.

I say we scrap the whole system. Get the Fed's out of everything except Foriegn Policy ( not that there very ggod at that but if they had less to focus on, maybe they'd learn something ). The Military, and the Environment, and Health Care ( and I'm stretching it here ). Let the Provinces and Municipalities take care of themselves. I'd also like to see our tax system completely overhauled and made efficient. And hold any and ALL PUBLICLY ELECTED OFFICIALS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THERE ACTIONS. Here I would bring back the death penalty.

I'd also like to have an online voting system where registered taxpayers in a particular Province or Municipality could vote online for any and all legislation. It's obviuos that our Politicians are a joke and just padding there pockets for themselves and whatever self serving interest group which happens to be bum licking them at the time.

This is just a start. I have to go back to work now.

Guy