Highway Driving
- Thread starter Dartman
- Start date
Actually, the left lane debate has been going on since they invented two lane highways with half saying: If you're speeding I have a RIGHT to stay where I want and if you creep up behind me I'm going to brake quickly (which in Ontario both are illegal) and the other half saying: I have a right to go slightly over the speed limit and should be allowed past someone should I want to.....(which, depending on the speed isn't illegal in Ontario, just pass an opp crusier at 118 and you WON'T get a ticket).
Slam on your brakes in front of someone and you could be charged with reckless driving.
Why not just pull the hell over? It is NOT your job to patrol the highways and prevent people from speeding, that's the job of the police.
As for those that think they are well within their "right" to tap the brakes if someone is tailgating them, please, take a look in the mirror, right now, because you if don't think you're a bigger asshole than the guy tailgating you then you're living in dream land.
GASP how dare I say that? Because, the guy tailgating you is not specifically doing anything that could cause an accident. Just the act of driving too close to you won't cause an accident. Hitting your brakes unnecessarily CAN specifically cause an accident and IMO more ignorant than someone driving too close.
If you think you're so "correct" in doing that, just casually call up the OPP and ask what the charge would be if they caught you doing that......
As for that biker example, he slowly creeping over the lanes to his exit? Ok, we ALL know there are three sides to every story and if he was just creeping, I highly DOUBT a cop would stop him. Now if he was weaving in and out and at any point his bike was perpendicular to the lane markers and or he "rode the white line"? Sorry, that's just not kosher (at least not here in Ontario). In California it is legal, but not here. As tempted as I was in 25 - 30 yrs of motorcycle riding I NEVER did that......
Slam on your brakes in front of someone and you could be charged with reckless driving.
Why not just pull the hell over? It is NOT your job to patrol the highways and prevent people from speeding, that's the job of the police.
As for those that think they are well within their "right" to tap the brakes if someone is tailgating them, please, take a look in the mirror, right now, because you if don't think you're a bigger asshole than the guy tailgating you then you're living in dream land.
GASP how dare I say that? Because, the guy tailgating you is not specifically doing anything that could cause an accident. Just the act of driving too close to you won't cause an accident. Hitting your brakes unnecessarily CAN specifically cause an accident and IMO more ignorant than someone driving too close.
If you think you're so "correct" in doing that, just casually call up the OPP and ask what the charge would be if they caught you doing that......
As for that biker example, he slowly creeping over the lanes to his exit? Ok, we ALL know there are three sides to every story and if he was just creeping, I highly DOUBT a cop would stop him. Now if he was weaving in and out and at any point his bike was perpendicular to the lane markers and or he "rode the white line"? Sorry, that's just not kosher (at least not here in Ontario). In California it is legal, but not here. As tempted as I was in 25 - 30 yrs of motorcycle riding I NEVER did that......
Sorry to pick you out but this comment raises an important point about speeding.Compromised said:
While I'm sure you can find people that are not comfortable with driving at high speeds, the issue of excessive speeding has nothing to do with that. The problem of excessive speeders (and that is what the street racing law attempts to address) is that their behavior puts everyone else on the road in danger.
I think it is fair to say that nobody expects to achieve an average speed of 150km/h on the QEW from Burlington to the 427, regardless of the time of day. The average speed, assuming no congestion, is probably a little over the 100km/h speed limit. It is rare to find a car in the middle lane on this route that is moving at more than 120km/h. It is equally unlikely to find many cars exceeding 130km/h on any lane.
For the sake of argument, let's say the average is 110km/h. Drivers are expecting cars around them to behave more-or-less like they are behaving -- flowing with the traffic. In an uncongested QEW, it might be perfectly reasonable to cruise at 110km/h in the center lane. It means cars to the left are expected to be moving slightly faster and slightly slower to the right. So what's wrong with the 150km/h driver?
Well, let's say Driver 1 is doing 120km/h in the center lane. He's closing on a car that is moving at 110km/h. Doing the right thing, he's going to seek to pass on the left. Let's say Driver 2 is coming at 150km/h. Unless Driver 1 spends an excessive amount of time looking, all he's going to see is that there is a car coming in his mirror -- say maybe 50 meters behind. Given he's going 120km/h, he's not expecting it to be moving much faster (say 130km/h) so he'll judge he's got plenty of space. He takes another second to check his blind spot, put on his signal, and in second three he's moving into the left lane.
Where's the problem? Well, Driver 2 is closing at 3 times the rate Driver 1 is guessing. What seems like a reasonable amount of space is actually not. In the three seconds since Driver 1 became aware of Driver 2, Driver 2 has closed about 25 meters instead of the expected 8 meters. Driver 2 now has barely 3 seconds to bring his speed down to 120km/h or rear-end Driver 1. If Driver 2 gets panicked, he might well switch to the center lane where he'll be closing even faster on the car that was in front of Driver 1. He might jam his brakes and he might lose control. This is a scenario that is played out on that roadway many times.
Thing is, has Driver 1 done anything wrong? No. His judgement was based on traffic flow expectations. Nobody expects a car to be moving at 150km/h or more on the QEW. Is Driver 1 not comfortable driving faster? All Driver 1 is doing is going with the flow of traffic as he expects everyone else to be doing.
The problem is Driver 2. It has nothing to do with comfort driving fast. It has everything to do with the reduced reaction times resulting from higher speeds and the expectations of all the other drivers on the road.
I notice on the 407 people actually tend to drive in the right and pass in the left.
If someone in the left sees someone coming up behind them they generally move over to the right.
407 drivers seem to have more class on the road.
Probably due to the fact they actually are classier people in society.
If someone in the left sees someone coming up behind them they generally move over to the right.
407 drivers seem to have more class on the road.
Probably due to the fact they actually are classier people in society.
This is exactly the kind of idiot that causes cops to be all over bikes. I'm only sad that he got the fine reduced for his selfish use of the road. Just because he didn't want to sit in traffic doesn't give him the right to break the law. The only problem is that the cop used the wrong law to charge him.data1960 said:
If you watch the old CHiPS shows from the late 70's early 80's, thats how the motorcycle cops drove all the time. In between lanes in slow moving traffic. But you never seen them driving though red lights without their flashers. Must have been OK back then in Calf...not sure if the motorcycle cops still drive like that there?
But thats the problem with the stunt driving law. You need not to drive 50 km/h over the limit. You can not even speed, just tick a cop off and he can pull your license and car off the road for 7 days! Maybe some of you think so what but it could happen to you. Think all cops like men who date escorts? Have an escort in your car and get pulled over, the cop could decide that you were "stunt driving". Seems like even a improper lane change could be "stunt driving", that is until you go to court.
Any law that has only a 33% conviction rate must have a problem with it, IMO.
But thats the problem with the stunt driving law. You need not to drive 50 km/h over the limit. You can not even speed, just tick a cop off and he can pull your license and car off the road for 7 days! Maybe some of you think so what but it could happen to you. Think all cops like men who date escorts? Have an escort in your car and get pulled over, the cop could decide that you were "stunt driving". Seems like even a improper lane change could be "stunt driving", that is until you go to court.
Any law that has only a 33% conviction rate must have a problem with it, IMO.
What should be done is set rules what is stunt driving. You drive 2 times the speed limit, I can understand you losing you car and license. Switch muti- lanes while speeding, maybe that too. But not for things like squealing your tires, creeping pass stop traffic. Those things should be ticket only--no matter how pissed off the cop might be.
Tickets work, you get enough of them, your drivers license is gone. Works everywhere else.
Tickets work, you get enough of them, your drivers license is gone. Works everywhere else.
I firmly believe that one is to pass in the 'fast lane', then move over so others can pass as well. I so agree with you.Amazon_woman said:
Hey joe? Don't you live in Michigan? If so, why are you even commenting on a law in Ontario?
As for riding the white line, I already said it is legal in California for regular bike riders to do it so why wouldn't the cops?
Anyhow, I believe the gist of the law is to get bad drivers off the road. Riding across lanes, weaving in and out, excessive tailgating, are all things that could be used to take someone off the road for a week.
I say: GREAT!!!!!
As for riding the white line, I already said it is legal in California for regular bike riders to do it so why wouldn't the cops?
Anyhow, I believe the gist of the law is to get bad drivers off the road. Riding across lanes, weaving in and out, excessive tailgating, are all things that could be used to take someone off the road for a week.
I say: GREAT!!!!!
EXACTLY!!!!!!!HafDun said:Hint...if that's you that pulls up 6 inches behind me thinking you're going to intimidate me into pulling over....my normal reaction is to slow down to the posed limit and maintain my lane.
Many years ago, I was driving down (what used to be) Highway 16 from Ottawa down towards the 401. The posted limit was 90, and I was doing a steady 100. Yes, I was speeding (moderately). I notice this tractor trailer some distance behind me, very gradually catching up to me. Instead of keeping a respectable distance behind me, he chooses to tailgate me. Keep in mind, I'm in a Honda Civic, doing 10 kph over the limit, with an 18 wheeler about 15 feet behind me. Oh, and this is a two lane highway (one lane each direction, duh), with NO passing lane. There is always the option to pass, if there are no oncoming vehicles. Since the other driver is in large vehicle, he will need a lot of space to accomplish this.
After a couple of minutes of being tailgated, I decide to slow down to the posted speed limit. (Mr. Truck-Driver: if 10 over the limit is not good enough for you, how about we do the actual limit instead?). After a minute or so of this, I accelerate for about 10 seconds or so to establish a safer distance between our vehicles. Once again, Mr. Big-Rig gradually catches up to me and tailgates me some more, since there is oncoming traffic and he doesn't have enough time/speed to pass me.
I repeat this process a couple more times, and quite obviously this tool behind me isn't getting the hint. I realize that we all have places to go, time is precious, blah, blah. However, I do not appreciate being tailgated by anyone, nevermind a vehicle that makes mine look like a Tonka toy. Some would argue that I should have pulled over to let him pass me. I DON'T THINK SO. That's not how it works. If he's not able to safely pass me, then he can sit (a safe distance) behind me until he IS able to. Did I mention I was already doing 10 over?
I decide to tap my brakes a couple of times (only enough to make the lights come on). Buddy-Boy is still not catching on. I'm sure most of you can guess what I did next. I felt that I had given this Jackass more than enough chances to do it the right way. So I slam on my brakes (just for an instant, though, I'm not looking to become road kill). In my rearview mirror, I see a nice puff of tire smoke from his locked up airbrakes. I think it's safe to say the guy probably shit a brick. But guess what? Yes, indeed, he backed off! And stayed that way for some time...
When he did finally have an opportunity to pass me, to show my fellow driver there were no hard feelings, I slowed down as he was passing me to allow him to accomplish his manouvre more quickly, and flashed my high beams to let him know he was safely past me, and could return to his lane. See how easy it is to get along? I don't want to have to act like a prick, but sometimes people push you into it.
By the way, FWIW, I'm a truck driver myself. Been a professional driver in the GTA for over 20 years. Oh, and no accidents so far...
-Dick
The average speed on the 400 series highways is usually about 110 (my estimate) and law enforcement tolerate between 115-120 as acceptable. Anything faster than that is considered dangerous because it creates too large a speed variance between lanes. I drive at or slightly above the average speed on the highway and as I posted in an earlier thread, I do get out of the way when I'm done passing. But you are the jerk if you think your rights supersede mine.Compromised said:
Now if I were to assume that every moron driving 140+ was involved in an emergency, that would mean we are in a constant state of crisis.
I like my high horse. The view is good from up here. Hi Ho Silver!
Well I have driven in Canada and been driving for almost 30 years-if mopeds count -I seen 55 mph limits and how traffic moved more at the same speed once the limit was set at 70 mph. Its HARDER to speed now here in Michigan because theres less speed difference between each lane.
As for people who look in their rear view mirror more than straight ahead and change THEIR driving because of some jerk behind them, thats wrong and can cause accidents--even if their car is not involved in the accident.
BTW this stunt driving law has effected me--I won't bring my "fun" hot rod car anywhere in Canada now-not even Windsor. It can squeal the tires too easily and the road cops have too much power now. So maybe thats 1 reason I can't help but to speak out against a law I feel make little safety sense.
I don't have the time to look sometimes at all the past posts. If I touched on something thats been posted already, sorry.
-I seen 55 mph limits and how traffic moved more at the same speed once the limit was set at 70 mph. Its HARDER to speed now here in Michigan because theres less speed difference between each lane. As for people who look in their rear view mirror more than straight ahead and change THEIR driving because of some jerk behind them, thats wrong and can cause accidents--even if their car is not involved in the accident.
BTW this stunt driving law has effected me--I won't bring my "fun" hot rod car anywhere in Canada now-not even Windsor. It can squeal the tires too easily and the road cops have too much power now. So maybe thats 1 reason I can't help but to speak out against a law I feel make little safety sense.
I don't have the time to look sometimes at all the past posts. If I touched on something thats been posted already, sorry.
Dick: (funny how appropriate that name is in this situation) something you don't seem to be able to comprehend, and probably don't know, is that large trucks need speed to be able to easily climb the next hill and use that pent up momentum in order to do so. Many trucks get maximum efficiency by going around 110 - 120 in hilly areas. If you've ever travelled down I-75 in Georgia or Tennessee you'd see trucks doing 80 or 90 mph down one hill in order to make it up the next. By the time they reach the top of the next hill they're doing the speed limit or less.Dick Starbuck said:
Now you "think" you did the right thing by touching your brakes but did you for a moment stop and think "what if mr trucker wasn't paying that close attention" and hit you? You'd be crushed beyond all recognition.....and being in a honda, your survival rate would be negligable.
You probably think of yourself as a safe driver when in fact, you're more of a menace than the trucker. If you were a safe considerate driver it would have taken you less than 20 seconds to pull over and let him by. Why wouldn't you just do that? I can answer that for you: because you are NOT a safe nor considerate driver.
For the life of me I cannot understand how anyone would think recklessly endangering their lives by doing what you described. Why not just let them by? Ego? Because you think you're somehow more powerful because you're surround by steel? I bet you wouldn't even think twice about standing in front of a Biker who was trying to get by you......why do it in a vehicle? I can answer that too: because not only are you ignorant, stupid, and an idiot, but you are no better, and in some ways worse than the guy wanting to get by you.....
The average speed is 115 only because you can't get above 45 during rush hour.HafDun said:
The law is very clear. When approached by an overtaking vehicle, move out of the way.
You have stated that you speed. So your argument that driver's going faster than you has absolutely no moral authority. Your argument is based solely upon what you, and only you think is right. It appears that in your eyes, society is wrong. You have stated that you speed, thereby stating that society can be safely ignored to your own personal benefit. Then you go ahead and state that anyone driving in a manner that does not meet with your personal approval is a "moron"
There are words that describe people such as yourself. Fascist. Egocentric. Selfish. Rude.
You get the point.
I have a question for those that slow down when someone is tailgating them and or refuse to let them past:
Why do you care that they are (what you feel) is "too close" behind you?
What's it to you how close they are?
Why do you care that they are (what you feel) is "too close" behind you?
What's it to you how close they are?
Tboy your outta line, I have also been driving for more than 30 years professionally, I have never had an accident, because I' do the speed limit and I respect other drivers driving. As far as your justification of "having to go faster because they need the speed" doesn't wash, pal. If you new anything about diesel engines you'd know that speed is sacrificed for torque when going up hill and when the torque is not needed the transverse happens. Gearing down is a necessary adjustment when driving big diesel rigs. When a guy says he needed the speed to climb it just says he's being too lazy for the gearing down process. If you're in a rig 16 hours a day you tend to get lazy with your driving, it's a natural occurance. That's why the ministry has implimented rest periods and travel logs. To help prevent yahoos from taking lives. And speaking of the autobahn, I was on it a while back while visiting friends and it is quite a rush, until I came upon an accident which claimed ,from what I was told, 16 lives. High speed accidents cause more fatalities than anything we come up with... speed kills, it's proven. Wake up, fly right and you'll live to be an old guy like me. Hope to see you in the fast lane, where I'll be doin' 115kph as I pass and fuck the rest of you cats who's youthful ignorance speaks through your writing!
Let me tell you about one, then...Moraff said:
A freind of mine's son was driving to highschool (about 5-6 weeks ago) - following a friend of his... Friend was driving WAY under the limit, so my friend's son pulled out to pass him; friend speeds up, and paces him, so they're going down the road side by side. Typical highschool - screwing around with your buddies type stuff.
Someone sees this, calls the cops, cops goto the highschool, based on the car description, get the plate, run the plate, get the family name, goto the office, get the student's name, call him out. Bracelets and a ride in the cruiser, charged with racing; car was seized and towed under the new law.
My friend went crazy on the cops, asking (rightly so) how they could tell how fast her son was going, how they could seize the car, etc. When she didn't back down, and called her lawyer; they revoked the ticket, and released the car, instead charging her son with a (slightly) more appropriate stunting.
I don't think there was a need for this new law at all... Speeding is already illegal, careless and reckless driving are already on the books. Enforce existing laws, instead of creating new ones...
Laz
