Have you been asked what race you are by SP's

[RTRD]

Then...

MLAM - First let me say GREAT points. I mean really great points, and let me also say that I am only debating these issues for the purpose of discussion and nothing more.

Again, I don't think I am racist as I personally would not turn down a client over the phone because he was of a certain background and while I agree that women in this field present and advertise themselves as product to the open public, I believe more in a person's consent to sex then to the right of all races to have sex with that person.

KWI

...we would agree.

You will note (because you seem passionate, but intelligent, versus others who are passionate in their ignorant prejudice) that I never said that our hypothetical SP HAD to see anyone she chose not to. You will also note that I never called our hypothetical SP a racist (a label that is commonly assigned to people who regularly exhibit racist behavior).

What I did say - and will say again - was that the behavior described (screening clients based solely on race) was racist. I honestly don't see how anyone could rationally argue that point (while fully recognizing some of us clearly aren't real comfortable or experienced with the rational thought process)

"I am only debating these issues for the purpose of discussion and nothing more."

And I understand that. Being an SP you feel very strongly about the right to turn anyone away you see fit. I'd agree with that.

The truth is though that screening of this type is (essentially) a lazy way to achieve a goal. Don't like curry breath? Screen Indian guys. Might be effective....except not ALL Indian guys like curry (so some "good" business is turned away) and there are plenty of people who are not Indian who like curry....and one of them could show up "your" door.

I understand that an SP who uses this type of screening might not be a "bad" person....that she is simply trying to achieve certain goals (comfort, safety, etc.) using this technique. That doesn't change the point that the behavior itself is racist (and frankly of limited effectiveness, given that such stereotypes are seldom survive the scrutiny of true statistical analysis).

Insofar as having preferences regarding appearances, I still question that as a defense for SPs. I doubt if the typical SP finds as many as 50% of her clients "attractive", so any reasoning for excluding a particular race - in entirety - without having even laid EYES on the prospective client based on "not being attracted to" is just a crock from a rational stand point. Now...if said person just cannot see themselves having sex with an Asian person regardless of what they look like...well, hell that is their right (I never said anything otherwise). But only a total moron (and apparently we have some that post to this board) would try to argue that isn't based on some sort of racist prejudice or basis, be it conscious or unconscious.

So - for the record - SP can fuck whomever they want, and I would not advocate anything differently.

But have the balls (ovaries? tits?) to put it right in your ad, so those you wish to not see won't even call. That would make things simpler for everybody, would it not?

Oh...wait...afraid some ethical white guys with both money and a conscious might decide to not do business with you as well are we??

Hmmm…is that what they call “an inconvenient truth”?

 

[RTRD]

I will again note...

MLAM, if in your view a "racist" is defined by a person or persons avoiding other colours or cultures for "any reason" would you agree or disagree that a black Somalian who refuses to do business or engage in any activity with a black from Nigeria is a racist or is showing culture preference?

...that I haven't yet said anyone WAS a racist (though there is someone in the thread trying very hard to earn the title). I have noted the BEHAVIOR as racist.

Having said that, I don't know enough about the culture, history or geneology of the region to say. Is there more that seperates these two people than a line on a map (in other words, are they actually the same race, or no?). Do they have knowledge of each other that assumptions can be based on?

Off the cuff, this strikes me as a cultural difference...certainly not one based on simple skin color (which most of this thread seems to be about...hence I keep pointing out that "Black" people do not all look the same...but vary widely in appearance).

 

[great bear]

...that I haven't yet said anyone WAS a racist (though there is someone in the thread trying very hard to earn the title). I have noted the BEHAVIOR as racist.

Having said that, I don't know enough about the culture, history or geneology of the region to say. Is there more that seperates these two people than a line on a map (in other words, are they actually the same race, or no?). Do they have knowledge of each other that assumptions can be based on?

Off the cuff, this strikes me as a cultural difference...certainly not one based on simple skin color (which most of this thread seems to be about...hence I keep pointing out that "Black" people do not all look the same...but vary widely in appearance).

MLAM, then would it be fair to say that for "cultural" reasons or if you wish to use the term "cultural differences" that discrimination (preference) can take place without the term "racisim" or "racist" being attributed to it?

 

[johnwayne]

RUCK,

Let me say this one last time. The choice whom to see based on race is a choice that should be reserved. To pressure someone by calling them a racist is a cowardly act. The fact that you are black is something you cannot change, so be it. It is what it is, make the best out of it. You have many many more freedoms that what other blacks in the past have had.

I can think of many worse things to be called other than a racist. I have not resorted to name calling which you have. So be it. I am not black and dont have a problem being white. Sorry pal but the racist tag does not sting me. I have black friends I just don t chose to sleep with them. Am I a racist? If that qualifies me as one, then guess what, SO WHAT.

 

[great bear]

RUCK,

Let me say this one last time. The choice whom to see based on race is a choice that should be reserved. To pressure someone by calling them a racist is a cowardly act. The fact that you are black is something you cannot change, so be it. It is what it is, make the best out of it. You have many many more freedoms that what other blacks in the past have had.

I can think of many worse things to be called other than a racist. I have not resorted to name calling which you have. So be it. I am not black and dont have a problem being white. Sorry pal but the racist tag does not sting me. I have black friends I just don t chose to sleep with them. Am I a racist? If that qualifies me as one, then guess what, SO WHAT.

As long as you don't sleep with Finny, then you would be a slut.

 

[allclassmale]

I know many escorts that don't see certain races such as blacks, indians, pakistanis...etc. Most of them tell me they had troubles with them in the past. Not all are bad, but the majority they tell me are bad and cheap!

 

[RTRD]

I would think...

MLAM, then would it be fair to say that for "cultural" reasons or if you wish to use the term "cultural differences" that discrimination (preference) can take place without the term "racisim" or "racist" being attributed to it?

...it depends.

The truth however is that people often (and often by design) confuse "culture" and "race".

For example...I would think thing most Caribbean people would call themselves "Black" (except for those who are from the Caribbean but obviously have ancestral linage to Anglo / Europeans.) I call myself "Black". I know nothing about Caribbean culture…did not grow up with it or near it, nor did my parents. I’ve never even been to the Caribbean. I am American.

So - someone has a "problem" with Caribbean people....would they also have a "problem" with me? Are they claiming the “problem” is cultural…or is it “racial” (assuming you subscribe to the notion that the native people of the Caribbean have genetic ties to Africa, as most people do).

To answer your question – sure, I think it is possible to have a cultural bias that is not racial in nature.

How often does that happen though? In a world where most people directly associate the two...how often does it happen that a person discriminates STRICKLY on "culture" with NO thought to race?

And...beyond all that, how many cultural characteristics can be applied to a single race? Alexa mentioned issues she had with a man of East Indian descent - that he seemed condescending toward women. Ok...we know that this sort of sexism is indeed something that some Muslims practice. But is it limited to Muslims? Is it limited to Indians? I've seem enough posts here to know some of you white guys really hate women...and I'm not talking about just liking a big booty submissive white gurl in the sack like I do...you really think very little of women.

So...yeah...it is possible. I don't think that is what is happening though when an SP declines to see men of a certain race though...

 

[ruck]

RUCK,

Let me say this one last time. The choice whom to see based on race is a choice that should be reserved. To pressure someone by calling them a racist is a cowardly act. The fact that you are black is something you cannot change, so be it. It is what it is, make the best out of it. You have many many more freedoms that what other blacks in the past have had.

I can think of many worse things to be called other than a racist. I have not resorted to name calling which you have. So be it. I am not black and dont have a problem being white. Sorry pal but the racist tag does not sting me. I have black friends I just don t chose to sleep with them. Am I a racist? If that qualifies me as one, then guess what, SO WHAT.

You seem educated but also ignorant. You ignored a large part of my post, especially the part where I say "I'm not black".

Again, I am not black. I am however someone who has lived with racism all my life. Oh good for you, you have some token black friends. Wow. Nobody is here talking about pressuring this woman to sleep with colored people of different races. We are just here calling her a racist for her actions. No pressure.

Saying "make the best of it" is great when your talking about a shortage in product at a store or something. When you are talking about the classification of a race as inferior and thus disdainful, that is whole other ball of wax. The defence of "it is what it is" is the exact mentality that allows racism to flourish. I know it will never disappear from the world as long as there are different races and cultures. However, we as people living in a supposed mosaic should learn to live peacefully. I won't say tolerate because I hate that word when used in context with multiculturalism. Who the fuck asked for toleration? I asked for equality in treatment.

You choose to not sleep with them? What is the criteria in which you base a sexual relationship on? Why would you not sleep with them? I have said that I don't usually find black women that attractive because the black women I have slept with had big feet. I do not generalize that all black women have big feet, but rather that the ones I have encountered do and that is something that turns me off. It has nothing to do with her being black. Shit, if there was an asian woman who had big honking feet, I'd show her the door too.

You are pointing out a physical attribute. So tell me, have you ever found any black person attractive. You don't have to answer this in public but you should in your head.

P.S. - I name call all the time. I also swear a lot with very little respect for some. I am what I am. A lot of people on this board know this and either hate me or like me. It doesn't matter either way. What I do care about is the equal treatment of people.

 

[RTRD]

Personally...

You seem educated but also ignorant. You ignored a large part of my post, especially the part where I say "I'm not black".

Again, I am not black. I am however someone who has lived with racism all my life. Oh good for you, you have some token black friends. Wow.
Saying "make the best of it" is great when your talking about a shortage in product at a store or something. When you are talking about the classification of a race as inferior and thus disdainful, that is whole other ball of wax.

You choose to not sleep with them? What is the criteria in which you base a sexual relationship on? Why would you not sleep with them? I have said that I don't usually find black women that attractive because the black women I have slept with had big feet. I do not generalize that all black women have big feet, but rather that the ones I have encountered do and that is something that turns me off. It has nothing to do with her being black. Shit, if there was an asian woman who had big honking feet, I'd show her the door too.

You are pointing out a physical attribute. So tell me, have you ever found any black person attractive. You don't have to answer this in public but you should in your head.

"You seem educated"

I'm not convinced...

 

[ruck]

I know many escorts that don't see certain races such as blacks, indians, pakistanis...etc. Most of them tell me they had troubles with them in the past. Not all are bad, but the majority they tell me are bad and cheap!

And do you agree with this assumption and behavior?

Like it's been said before, there are bad white clients. So how come there is no ban on whites?

 

[great bear]

...it depends.

The truth however is that people often (and often by design) confuse "culture" and "race".

For example...I would think thing most Caribbean people would call themselves "Black" (except for those who are from the Caribbean but obviously have ancestral linage to Anglo / Europeans.) I call myself "Black". I know nothing about Caribbean culture…did not grow up with it or near it, nor did my parents. I’ve never even been to the Caribbean. I am American.

So - someone has a "problem" with Caribbean people....would they also have a "problem" with me? Are they claiming the “problem” is cultural…or is it “racial” (assuming you subscribe to the notion that the people of native people of the Caribbean have genetic ties to Africa, as most people do).

To answer your question – sure, I think it is possible to have a cultural bias that is not racial in nature.

How often does that happen though? In a world where most people directly associate the two...how often does it happen that a person discriminates STRICKLY on "culture" with NO thought to race?

And...beyond all that, how many cultural characteristics can be applied to a single race? Alexa mentioned issues she had with a man of East Indian descent - that he seemed condescending toward women. Ok...we know that this sort of sexism is indeed something that some Muslims practice. But is it limited to Muslims? Is it limited to Indians? I've seem enough post here to know some of you white guys really hate women...and I'm not talking about just liking a big booty submissive white gurl in the sack like I do...you really think very little of women.

So...yeah...it is possible. I don't think that is what is happening though when an SP declines to see men of a certain race though...

Good enough. Now I'll go back to hi-jacking threads. Cheers GB

 

[great bear]

And do you agree with this assumption and behavior?

Like it's been said before, there are bad white clients. So how come there is no ban on whites?

Whites are banned when washing them in hot water with dark coloured clothes.

 

[johnwayne]

Let me re-phrase my answer. After careful consideration, you are correct that are some absolutely gorgeous women of color. I mean knock your socks off gorgeous.AND I would be a fool to say that I would not sleep with them cuz i would. I dont have a problem with color there are many gorgeous girls of color out there, and i apologize for implying differently. I just have a problem in pressuring someone to do what they dont want to do by using the racist card.

Really guys in this generation we do not know racism. I say it in the early sixties it was REALLY BAD and REALLY Scary. Todays world is so much different. Granted there can be improvements that will take time. The slavery issue in North America caused problems for generations.

In any case if someone doesn't want to see you because of some reason whatever it may be, just remember there is always someone else out there.

 

[Back Burner]

Johnwayne you seem to now be making sense. No one here should believe a SP should be pressured to see someone she doesn't want to. But your above post makes a lot of sense and separates preference and bigotry. I know girls that only date black guys. But if Brad Pitt came knocking they would spread quicker then peanut butter. (Preference) I know guys who only white girls. But if Halle Berry came knocking, they would drink her bath water. (Preference). IMO this is what preference is. Saying someone only dates blonde's or redheads and comparing that to race is silly.

 

[Mongrel4u]

Let me re-phrase my answer. After careful consideration, you are correct that are some absolutely gorgeous women of color. I mean knock your socks off gorgeous.AND I would be a fool to say that I would not sleep with them cuz i would. I dont have a problem with color there are many gorgeous girls of color out there, and i apologize for implying differently. I just have a problem in pressuring someone to do what they dont want to do by using the racist card.

Nobody is pressuring them John. The problem is these girls will swear up and down that its a business like anyother. But If they are going to screen for race then that is not good business practice as you will not find that behavior at any other business. If she is going to screen for race thenwhat else is someone to think?..that shes a philathropist? sure its possible she may not be a racist - maybe all her friends are black and she refuses to see black men for fear of getting caught by one of her friends.. sure its very possible.. but more often than not, thats probably not the case.

If they say this is a business, then should their personal preferrences be hindering them from fair practices? Would you go into your job and say "i dont deal with blacks, asians...or whatever"?

People have a right to opinion as well John and if you get labeled a racist or what have you due to questionable behaviour on your part....then tough...you cant expect to just do and sasy whatever you want without any sort of response..

Really guys in this generation we do not know racism. I say it in the early sixties it was REALLY BAD and REALLY Scary. Todays world is so much different. Granted there can be improvements that will take time. The slavery issue in North America caused problems for generations.

Right... but thats not a good comparison to make or bring up because they were just wrong back then on so many different levels. Just because people were wrong before thats no excuse to be less wrong now

 

[Meister]

I don't think SPs are going to care one way or the other what you think. The fact that you can't call the Human Rights commission on SPs makes this whole discussion pointless.

 

[Oil Please]

You seem educated but also ignorant. You ignored a large part of my post, especially the part where I say "I'm not black".

Again, I am not black. I am however someone who has lived with racism all my life. Oh good for you, you have some token black friends. Wow. Nobody is here talking about pressuring this woman to sleep with colored people of different races. We are just here calling her a racist for her actions. No pressure.

Saying "make the best of it" is great when your talking about a shortage in product at a store or something. When you are talking about the classification of a race as inferior and thus disdainful, that is whole other ball of wax. The defence of "it is what it is" is the exact mentality that allows racism to flourish. I know it will never disappear from the world as long as there are different races and cultures. However, we as people living in a supposed mosaic should learn to live peacefully. I won't say tolerate because I hate that word when used in context with multiculturalism. Who the fuck asked for toleration? I asked for equality in treatment.

You choose to not sleep with them? What is the criteria in which you base a sexual relationship on? Why would you not sleep with them? I have said that I don't usually find black women that attractive because the black women I have slept with had big feet. I do not generalize that all black women have big feet, but rather that the ones I have encountered do and that is something that turns me off. It has nothing to do with her being black. Shit, if there was an asian woman who had big honking feet, I'd show her the door too.

You are pointing out a physical attribute. So tell me, have you ever found any black person attractive. You don't have to answer this in public but you should in your head.

P.S. - I name call all the time. I also swear a lot with very little respect for some. I am what I am. A lot of people on this board know this and either hate me or like me. It doesn't matter either way. What I do care about is the equal treatment of people.

I hate you!..............LOL.

 

[slowandeasy]

nope, just gotta problem with people who try to impose themselves upon others that have made the decision not to see them. A person's choice to select is just that, their choice. The ladies have the right to refuse to see any client based on their descretion. Its their choice its not a right its a priviledge. I have a problem with people who scream racism at the drop of a hat

Thank you for jumping in on this thread.... you are the epitome of this issue..

It's not a matter of whether the SP has THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE who she sees. I think that most people (including most non-whites) agree that if an SP decides not to see certain people, no one can force her to do so..

That does not negate the fact that it's racism...

Johnwayne... you are the perfect example... the reason people have to scream racism is because people like you still cannot get this simple concept through your head..... This is not just about SPs providing service to a client.
When a person makes a decision based only on a persons color... it's racism..
As MLAM mentioned earlier... it's an ugly world and people don't want to admit it... but it is what it is...

this has probably been said before but one more time for the win:

her body, her rules. Case closed.

P.S. i am a man of color.

 

[slowandeasy]

I am white. I have many black/asian friends, who i respect and love. I am not racist. I was however raped by a blackman when i was 16. Date rape sorta situation. Im not the least bit attracted to dark complexions now, possibly because of this. I asked people what race they were when i saw them. Am I a bad person now?

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.. that really sucks.... I admire your courage to even associate with black people in that case...

The fact that you might avoid black people is understandable, and it does not make you a bad person... but it does make you a bit of a racist... not the KKK, cross burning, back of the bus, kill people's babies type of racist... The question that you have to ask yourself (honestly)... if the person who raped you was the same color as you, would you every man of your color as a partner??? If the answer is no, then you are still a bit of a racist, justifiably

BTW racism is not just a white disease, it is a disease shared by many other races...

East Indians racist against blacks, Koreans vs. Japanese (although I am not even sure if they are different races or what), Cantonese feeling Mandarins are sly, Blacks racist against whites... and Blacks vs Blacks (tribal wars in Africa).....

 

[slowandeasy]

RUCK,

Let me say this one last time. The choice whom to see based on race is a choice that should be reserved. To pressure someone by calling them a racist is a cowardly act. The fact that you are black is something you cannot change, so be it. It is what it is, make the best out of it. You have many many more freedoms that what other blacks in the past have had.

I can think of many worse things to be called other than a racist. I have not resorted to name calling which you have. So be it. I am not black and dont have a problem being white. Sorry pal but the racist tag does not sting me. I have black friends I just don t chose to sleep with them. Am I a racist? If that qualifies me as one, then guess what, SO WHAT.

Those negros should just be thankful that they have so many rights and freedoms in this day and age. Our society has provided them with so much, that I find some of their behaviours to be ingrateful.. It was not that long ago that they could not be served in the same restaurants as us...

For Christs sakes, we are paying so many of those ingrates millions of dollars for playing sports... I don't understand the complaints...