When washing your clothes, you should never mix your white and dark colors.great bear said:Whites are banned when washing them in hot water with dark coloured clothes.
They could all end up grey
Have you been asked what race you are by SP's
- Thread starter CHOOCHOO
- Start date
They could all end up grey
People, including many black people, routinely select their sexual partners on the basis of race. Some people prefer their own race, some people prefer some other race.
In fact, although they are quite common now, inter-racial relationships are still a small minority versus same race relationships--including among blacks, natives, and all the other groups you might ordinarily think of as the victims of racism. Just looking around town it appears to me that selecting a partner based on race is the *normal* thing for people to do in that inter-racial relationships are still far less common than same-race relationships. People certainly are not matching up with some random race. So are all those people therefore racist? Maybe in some pedantic academic philosophical sense, but not in the sense that the word is ordinarily used!
If it's not racist for ordinary people to do this, why is it suddenly racist if an SP does this?
An SP has "lower standards" than most people in that she'll have sex with guys she might not otherwise have sex with because the pot has been sweetened with cash. That does not, however, mean that she has NO standards.
So, if an SP is allowed to have standards, and if it's commonly accepted that people who select partners on the basis of race are not racist, what's the problem here?
Now it may be that there are SP's who are racist, I'm sure it's the case, but they are not racist because of this reason alone.
In fact, although they are quite common now, inter-racial relationships are still a small minority versus same race relationships--including among blacks, natives, and all the other groups you might ordinarily think of as the victims of racism. Just looking around town it appears to me that selecting a partner based on race is the *normal* thing for people to do in that inter-racial relationships are still far less common than same-race relationships. People certainly are not matching up with some random race. So are all those people therefore racist? Maybe in some pedantic academic philosophical sense, but not in the sense that the word is ordinarily used!
If it's not racist for ordinary people to do this, why is it suddenly racist if an SP does this?
An SP has "lower standards" than most people in that she'll have sex with guys she might not otherwise have sex with because the pot has been sweetened with cash. That does not, however, mean that she has NO standards.
So, if an SP is allowed to have standards, and if it's commonly accepted that people who select partners on the basis of race are not racist, what's the problem here?
Now it may be that there are SP's who are racist, I'm sure it's the case, but they are not racist because of this reason alone.
I quoted my answer to you in my reply below. I believe preference is to "prefer" but not to necessarily exclude. Meaning that people "date" who they prefer all the time. It doesn't mean giving the opportunity that they wouldn't date someone from another race. Now me I'll probably fuck anything with a cute face and a nice ass. But I've fucked some monsters too. (Keep it to yourself) But sticking to cute girl with a nice ass is my preference. (Am I anti-monsterite?)
Back Burner said:
You know...
...I thought the exact same thing, but decided to not point it out as to avoid people accusing me to picking on her or other such criticism.
This is rooted in a notion that people of a different race are "different". If a white woman is raped by white guy - then it was THAT guy with an issue. If a white woman is raped by a Black guy, then it is (presumably subconsciously in this case) BLACK GUYS who are the issue.
Assigning individual characteristics and behaviors to an entire group by association is classic racism...practiced by most (including me in my personal life as well, though I work very hard to not do so in my professional life, and try...admittedly not as hard...to not act on those feelings and impulses in my personal life).
Like you, I don't "blame" Swing Dancer for feelng the way she does - but you have made an excellent point that occurred to me as well.
"The question that you have to ask yourself (honestly)... if the person who raped you was the same color as you, would you {avoid} every man of your color as a partner??? If the answer is no, then you are still a bit of a racist, justifiably"slowandeasy said:
...I thought the exact same thing, but decided to not point it out as to avoid people accusing me to picking on her or other such criticism.
This is rooted in a notion that people of a different race are "different". If a white woman is raped by white guy - then it was THAT guy with an issue. If a white woman is raped by a Black guy, then it is (presumably subconsciously in this case) BLACK GUYS who are the issue.
Assigning individual characteristics and behaviors to an entire group by association is classic racism...practiced by most (including me in my personal life as well, though I work very hard to not do so in my professional life, and try...admittedly not as hard...to not act on those feelings and impulses in my personal life).
Like you, I don't "blame" Swing Dancer for feelng the way she does - but you have made an excellent point that occurred to me as well.
What makes you think...
...these people selected their partner based on race? I didn't....did you?
I selected the person I thought I would be most happy and compatible with. Period. And given the nature of the society we live in, it is VERY easy how thinking that this would be more likely the case with someone of the same race versus someone of a different race...especially in the case of minorities, who have a somewhat unique perspecitve of the world It is reasonable to assume that someone who is part of the same culture as you (not the same as race, but often linked very closely) would better understand you, would have more in common with you, and thus would be more compatible.
All that however is not the same as saying "I am only interested in partnering with someone of the same race"....whereby race is an overriding consideraton, above anything else.
I don't think most people would say "yes, if I met the perfect person for me, but they were not of my race, I would pass". I think many might reply "Well, it is difficult for me to see how the 'perfect person' would not be the same race as me", but that is rooted in life experience based on the factors I listd above - how difficult it might would be for someone whose life lenses are a completely different color than yours to relate to you...and of course vice versa.
In summary - I don't think people chose their partners...at least not serious partners (versus say wanting to bang a latina girl because you never have before) based on race (recognizing that in some cultures this actually is pretty prevelant). I wonder if the fact that you think so is not a reflect on you and your own bias...
Just looking around town it appears to me that selecting a partner based on race is the *normal* thing for people to do....fuji said:
...these people selected their partner based on race? I didn't....did you?
I selected the person I thought I would be most happy and compatible with. Period. And given the nature of the society we live in, it is VERY easy how thinking that this would be more likely the case with someone of the same race versus someone of a different race...especially in the case of minorities, who have a somewhat unique perspecitve of the world It is reasonable to assume that someone who is part of the same culture as you (not the same as race, but often linked very closely) would better understand you, would have more in common with you, and thus would be more compatible.
All that however is not the same as saying "I am only interested in partnering with someone of the same race"....whereby race is an overriding consideraton, above anything else.
I don't think most people would say "yes, if I met the perfect person for me, but they were not of my race, I would pass". I think many might reply "Well, it is difficult for me to see how the 'perfect person' would not be the same race as me", but that is rooted in life experience based on the factors I listd above - how difficult it might would be for someone whose life lenses are a completely different color than yours to relate to you...and of course vice versa.
In summary - I don't think people chose their partners...at least not serious partners (versus say wanting to bang a latina girl because you never have before) based on race (recognizing that in some cultures this actually is pretty prevelant). I wonder if the fact that you think so is not a reflect on you and your own bias...
I'm not saying what I did or what you did, just that the preponderance of evidence is that *most* people use race as a factor in selecting their partner. If we personalize this into what you and I did first off that's just anecdotal, and secondly it'll get someone's emotions going, because you're essentially inviting me to criticize your personal choices, and nobody takes kindly to that. So let's step back and just look at the people on the street--what I see is that the vast majority of them chose a partner from the same race.MLAM said:
No doubt that is one of the primary reasons why people screen based on race. As you just said yourself they may be more likely to be compatible with someone from their own race. So, an SP who screens based on race is increasing the odds that she'll have sessions with people she clicks with, no?
I'll throw this out there too --
If you like women with big boobs and big asses, there are some races where you'll tend to prefer the women from that race, and other races where you'll tend to be turned off. Similarly, if you dislike the voluptuous look and rather prefer slim, stick-like women, your racial preference would be reversed. Certainly when I'm screening SP's to decide who to call, and I'm going from ads where there are no pictures, or the pictures are poor, I screen partly based on race, because I expect to get a higher percentage of sessions that are what I want by doing that.
Now an SP could do that too. She's not guaranteed that a client from race X will have the look or body that she's attracted to, but she can jigger the odds substantially by screening based on race.
Essentially what I'm saying is that screening based on race for the purpose of selecting a sexual partner is not racist. You do it for cultural reasons. Others do it for physical reasons. Most people do it.
My wife happens not to be of the same race or cultural background than I am, but that is also not to say that I am equally attracted to women of all races. I am equally attracted to women with a similar _look_, but if you're honest, you'll admit that women of different races are more or less likely to have that look.
This has never been the issue.Swingdancer said:
Indeed I think the problem with this thread is that people are having a hard time comprehending what some of us are trying to point out.
Hey MLAM, do you ever tired of doing this? I sometimes do.
In response.....
"A factor" and "the deciding factor" are not the same thing....just as someone pointed out that preference is not the opposite of exclusion. Your first post seemed to imply (to me) that these people used race as THE deciding factor - and that everything else flowed from that. I know people who think that way, and it is prevalent in certain cultures...but I am saying I don't think MOST people do.
"what I see is that the vast majority of them chose a partner from the same race."
Agreed - but that doesn't mean that they used race in making that decision. It could be that they chose someone they were most compatible with - and it turns out that person was more likely to be of the same race.
I chose my car based on the features I wanted, both objective (a list) and subjective (things like “prestige"). I have never owned a car of this brand before - yet I have one. In hindsight...it was an obvious choice, but I didn't go into thinking "I am only going to look at Porsche / BMW / Mercedes Benz / Etc." Again, in hindsight the number of high performance luxury SUVs at the time was fairly limited...so I could have started off with a short list of brand names...but I didn't. The same could be said about picking a partner...without giving thought to limiting yourself to race.
"No doubt that is one of the primary reasons why people screen based on race."
As stated above, I don't think most people screen based on race - I think they screen based on other factors and find more compatibility within their own race.
We still live in a segmented / segregated society. People live with / work with / socialize with people like themselves, and race tends to be the segregating factor. So you are more likely to MEET people of the same race as yourself, especially in certain (relatively) closed cultures (also the ones that tend to discourage inter-racial coupling).
The thing is though (and this has been studied), as much as you think people stick together based on race, it has been proven that a BIGGER segregator is economic class. Independent of race, people tend to couple with others of the same ECONOMIC class. You could argue that THIS is what you see as you look around you walking down the street...except you can't see it. So you picked up on race instead.
"So, an SP who screens based on race is increasing the odds that she'll have sessions with people she clicks with, no?"
I could not disagree more. This very board proves that people of the same race in the same hobby have vastly different personalities and approaches. I have no doubt in my mind that if the races of the posters were not known (and in some cases they are not) an SP could go through and pick out which "handles" she would click better with than others.
Coming together for an hour with a stated purpose is VASTLY different than choosing a "partner". I don't know about you, but I can pretty much fuck anybody I think is attractive...regardless of if I like them or not. Beyond that...I can have a "good time" with an only slightly smaller subset. I have gotten drunk with and laughed my ass off with tons of different types of people for an hour or three - not the same as picking a life partner. We "click" because we do have some sort of chemistry...but I think that sort of connection is COMPLETELY independent of race. Things like a sense of humor, sexiness, etc. are not the same as feeling like your life partner understands what drives and motivates you, you fears, your insecurities.
SPs are pros. I think they can create chemistry with anybody who isn't an asshole or a dead fish for an hour. They make their money making men happy. I disagree completely with you here.
"If you like women with big boobs and big asses, there are some races where you'll tend to prefer the women from that race, and other races where you'll tend to be turned off."
I disagree here as well - though I get your point. I don't think big tits and asses are limited to any one race...I think those are stereotypes that have SOME truth to them, but are not absolute or universal. Me - I have a weakness for voluptuous white women...and Latinas....but voluptuous women come in ALL races. Are they more prevalent in some races? Maybe...I dunno...really I see them ALOT (because I am looking) in all races except perhaps Asians...and I have seen some smoking Asian women as well. Maybe I just don't travel in Asian circles a lot....I find there are not a lot of Asian strippers....lol.
But - to your comment - yes, I have a "look" that I like, and I even have racial preferences. That drives my lap dance choices, not my life partner choices. And I would think most people are the same, but hell, maybe I am wrong.
"Now an SP could do that too. She's not guaranteed that a client from race X will have the look or body that she's attracted to, but she can jigger the odds substantially by screening based on race."
I get your point here as well - and I am not completely buying it. First, MEN tend to all have the same body type across races. I understand what you were saying above, and while I didn't cosign completely, I got your point. Does not apply to men. We tend to be built the same, with differences being driven by individual health / exercise habits rather than anything at all to do with race.
Second, an SP has no idea what the guy who comes through the door looks like before he gets there, so how can she "jigger the odds". Yes, if she screen for Blacks and Indians she will have some success for screening for darker skinned people - but she will also be screen some light skinned Black and Indians, and not screening some dark skinned Italians and Greeks. If she only sees white guys, the only thing she will know is that the guy is white - she will know NOTHING else about him (unless she asks of course) not hair color (or hair at all), not build...nothing. How can you determine in advance if you will find this person attractive or not? And, like I mentioned before, my BIL looks nothing at all like me. Hell, he might look more like you. Fair skin...soft curls. As mentioned before, he is typically mistaken for Italian or Latino. How an SP know in advance that she was NOT going to be attracted to a person because he was Black / Asian / Indian without having seen him?
Essentially what I'm saying is that screening based on race for the purpose of selecting a sexual partner is not racist. You do it for cultural reasons. Others do it for physical reasons. Most people do it.
And I of course disagree. Screen for culture if that is important. Screen for appearance of that is important. Screen for race, if that is important. But don't pretend that when you make a decision based on race it isn't racist.
Pretend all you want - doesn't change that "inconvenient truth"...
I am equally attracted to women with a similar _look_, but if you're honest, you'll admit that women of different races are more or less likely to have that look
I don't know that is the case or not, but more to my point, as you apparently know - no "look" is LIMITED to a single race...so how justify saying that screening based on race would be effective way of securing a "look"...especially when all the members of a race do not look the same (limiting yourself to white guys doesn't mean George Clooney is going to come walking through the door...and if you don't then Shemar Moore might).
"I'm not saying what I did or what you did, just that the preponderance of evidence is that *most* people use race as a factor in selecting their partner."fuji said:
"A factor" and "the deciding factor" are not the same thing....just as someone pointed out that preference is not the opposite of exclusion. Your first post seemed to imply (to me) that these people used race as THE deciding factor - and that everything else flowed from that. I know people who think that way, and it is prevalent in certain cultures...but I am saying I don't think MOST people do.
"what I see is that the vast majority of them chose a partner from the same race."
Agreed - but that doesn't mean that they used race in making that decision. It could be that they chose someone they were most compatible with - and it turns out that person was more likely to be of the same race.
I chose my car based on the features I wanted, both objective (a list) and subjective (things like “prestige"). I have never owned a car of this brand before - yet I have one. In hindsight...it was an obvious choice, but I didn't go into thinking "I am only going to look at Porsche / BMW / Mercedes Benz / Etc." Again, in hindsight the number of high performance luxury SUVs at the time was fairly limited...so I could have started off with a short list of brand names...but I didn't. The same could be said about picking a partner...without giving thought to limiting yourself to race.
"No doubt that is one of the primary reasons why people screen based on race."
As stated above, I don't think most people screen based on race - I think they screen based on other factors and find more compatibility within their own race.
We still live in a segmented / segregated society. People live with / work with / socialize with people like themselves, and race tends to be the segregating factor. So you are more likely to MEET people of the same race as yourself, especially in certain (relatively) closed cultures (also the ones that tend to discourage inter-racial coupling).
The thing is though (and this has been studied), as much as you think people stick together based on race, it has been proven that a BIGGER segregator is economic class. Independent of race, people tend to couple with others of the same ECONOMIC class. You could argue that THIS is what you see as you look around you walking down the street...except you can't see it. So you picked up on race instead.
"So, an SP who screens based on race is increasing the odds that she'll have sessions with people she clicks with, no?"
I could not disagree more. This very board proves that people of the same race in the same hobby have vastly different personalities and approaches. I have no doubt in my mind that if the races of the posters were not known (and in some cases they are not) an SP could go through and pick out which "handles" she would click better with than others.
Coming together for an hour with a stated purpose is VASTLY different than choosing a "partner". I don't know about you, but I can pretty much fuck anybody I think is attractive...regardless of if I like them or not. Beyond that...I can have a "good time" with an only slightly smaller subset. I have gotten drunk with and laughed my ass off with tons of different types of people for an hour or three - not the same as picking a life partner. We "click" because we do have some sort of chemistry...but I think that sort of connection is COMPLETELY independent of race. Things like a sense of humor, sexiness, etc. are not the same as feeling like your life partner understands what drives and motivates you, you fears, your insecurities.
SPs are pros. I think they can create chemistry with anybody who isn't an asshole or a dead fish for an hour. They make their money making men happy. I disagree completely with you here.
"If you like women with big boobs and big asses, there are some races where you'll tend to prefer the women from that race, and other races where you'll tend to be turned off."
I disagree here as well - though I get your point. I don't think big tits and asses are limited to any one race...I think those are stereotypes that have SOME truth to them, but are not absolute or universal. Me - I have a weakness for voluptuous white women...and Latinas....but voluptuous women come in ALL races. Are they more prevalent in some races? Maybe...I dunno...really I see them ALOT (because I am looking) in all races except perhaps Asians...and I have seen some smoking Asian women as well. Maybe I just don't travel in Asian circles a lot....I find there are not a lot of Asian strippers....lol.
But - to your comment - yes, I have a "look" that I like, and I even have racial preferences. That drives my lap dance choices, not my life partner choices. And I would think most people are the same, but hell, maybe I am wrong.
"Now an SP could do that too. She's not guaranteed that a client from race X will have the look or body that she's attracted to, but she can jigger the odds substantially by screening based on race."
I get your point here as well - and I am not completely buying it. First, MEN tend to all have the same body type across races. I understand what you were saying above, and while I didn't cosign completely, I got your point. Does not apply to men. We tend to be built the same, with differences being driven by individual health / exercise habits rather than anything at all to do with race.
Second, an SP has no idea what the guy who comes through the door looks like before he gets there, so how can she "jigger the odds". Yes, if she screen for Blacks and Indians she will have some success for screening for darker skinned people - but she will also be screen some light skinned Black and Indians, and not screening some dark skinned Italians and Greeks. If she only sees white guys, the only thing she will know is that the guy is white - she will know NOTHING else about him (unless she asks of course) not hair color (or hair at all), not build...nothing. How can you determine in advance if you will find this person attractive or not? And, like I mentioned before, my BIL looks nothing at all like me. Hell, he might look more like you. Fair skin...soft curls. As mentioned before, he is typically mistaken for Italian or Latino. How an SP know in advance that she was NOT going to be attracted to a person because he was Black / Asian / Indian without having seen him?
Essentially what I'm saying is that screening based on race for the purpose of selecting a sexual partner is not racist. You do it for cultural reasons. Others do it for physical reasons. Most people do it.
And I of course disagree. Screen for culture if that is important. Screen for appearance of that is important. Screen for race, if that is important. But don't pretend that when you make a decision based on race it isn't racist.
Pretend all you want - doesn't change that "inconvenient truth"...
I am equally attracted to women with a similar _look_, but if you're honest, you'll admit that women of different races are more or less likely to have that look
I don't know that is the case or not, but more to my point, as you apparently know - no "look" is LIMITED to a single race...so how justify saying that screening based on race would be effective way of securing a "look"...especially when all the members of a race do not look the same (limiting yourself to white guys doesn't mean George Clooney is going to come walking through the door...and if you don't then Shemar Moore might).
I do...
...especially the ones who keep claimig someone is calling them a racist when I know *I* have not done that yet in this thread...
Of course, what are really talking about here is people don't like the label...on their person or behavior. They want to behave that way - they just don't want it pointed out to them.
ruck said:This has never been the issue.
Indeed I think the problem with this thread is that people are having a hard time comprehending what some of us are trying to point out.
Hey MLAM, do you ever tired of doing this? I sometimes do.
...especially the ones who keep claimig someone is calling them a racist when I know *I* have not done that yet in this thread...
Of course, what are really talking about here is people don't like the label...on their person or behavior. They want to behave that way - they just don't want it pointed out to them.
Well...I never before did an accounting in my head...
Hmmm...
Well, if you count the people who were bi-racial as one of each, I'd say five.
If you want to really split the hairs (some people for example think of "Italian" as not white) it might be a dozen or so.
These things tend to not matter a lot to me (at least not when I am not inside a strip club), so I really don't ask.
But, to answer the question, I think I have had sex with someone of every racial group mentioned in this thread (though I admit I can only count Asian as part of a bi-racial mix...Asian babes just aint' feelin' us Black guys too often, and I am too old and too married to be trying to pick up some open minded 22 yo Asian cutie).
HTH...in whatever way you intended....
...but since you asked, I guess I will now.Swingdancer said:
Hmmm...
Well, if you count the people who were bi-racial as one of each, I'd say five.
If you want to really split the hairs (some people for example think of "Italian" as not white) it might be a dozen or so.
These things tend to not matter a lot to me (at least not when I am not inside a strip club), so I really don't ask.
But, to answer the question, I think I have had sex with someone of every racial group mentioned in this thread (though I admit I can only count Asian as part of a bi-racial mix...Asian babes just aint' feelin' us Black guys too often, and I am too old and too married to be trying to pick up some open minded 22 yo Asian cutie).
HTH...in whatever way you intended....
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I've slept with black women from Jamaica, trinidad and Africa except one can argue that all black people originate from Africa. I have slept with venezuelan, brazilian, argentinan, mexican, chinese, japanese, korean, cambodian, philipina, vietnamese, Eastern Euro, Brits, canadians, east indian, pakistani, sri lankin, and probably a couple of other races that I have not even bothered to think about.Swingdancer said:
In that collective, all the skin colors have been included. I have yet to sleep with an aboriginal woman. I find them irresistably attractive, the attractive ones that is, but for some reason I never have partaken. It has nothing to do with race because I do want to have sex with them. It's just that I do not know any aboriginal people. I do know of at least one in this business but I will never book her because we have our verbal differences.
In any case, I never called you a racist. You should read more carefully.
Someone throw icy cold water on Lancs.LancsLad said:I may not be in the race but I was in heat.
Well, what if you didn't want to have sex with a particular race?CHOOCHOO said:Unfortunatly I had the pleasure of being denied service base on race over the phone. WOW
Mellisa on the redzone does not see other races than white.
Do you think that is racist
Say, Indian for example...would you consider yourself a racist?
Everyone has their preferences...
Pretty damn close. In other cases using race as *any* factor in a decision, such as a hiring decision, would be deemed racist. No factor is ever "the" factor, any factor can be the deciding factor all other things being equal. In other words, if race is allowed as any factor it logically follows that it's acceptable for it to be given as the deciding reason not to sleep with a particular person.
Once you accept that race is a good predicter of whether or not, on average, you'll be attracted to someone you've essentially accepted the case. If it's a good predicter, sight unseen, on whether someone fits your likes and dislikes, then it's a good way for people to screen sexual partners they aren't going to meet in advance.
I agree. And therefore, all other things being equal, using race to select sexual partners increases the probability that the person you hook up with will be compatible.
Meeting a partner, especially online, is not like buying a car. You do not get a list of their features. You find those things out later. You generally know very little about someone when you first meet them online, or in the case of an SP, when you first hear their voice on the phone. Of the few bits of demographic information you have available race is a good predicter of whether you're going to get the features that you were looking for.
If you really knew someone inside out before you started dating them then I doubt *anyone* would use race as a factor, but in all those more normal situations where you have to make the "see them or not" decision on very little information I am willing to bet that most people will use race in that decision.
On the internet or over the phone implementing that segmentation means, in part, setting up your profile or your process so that you screen based on factors such as race.
Practically all dating sites have a little set of tick boxes where you can select the races you want to search for. Do you think they would offer that service if it wasn't popular????
Is it racist for match.com, lavalife, mmto, campuskiss, etc., to allow you to screen people based on race?
To YOU maybe. To me I enjoy the experience more when I'm with someone that I click with. Now I agree that "clicking" in an hour is different than "clicking" over a year. However it's all the more likely that the factors that race predicts will be the ones that matter for the hour long click...
No, but if you hang around black women you'll see lots of big tits and lots of big asses. If you hang around asians they're few and far between. There are lots of busty asians and lots of slim black women, but as a *predictor* of what you are going to get, race is a pretty good one.
Sure, but when I said, jigger the odds, I specifically didn't mean she's be guaranteed to get what she wanted, or never exclude someone she might have liked. Just that a higher percentage of her sessions will be enjoyable for her.
For women a closer cultural connection might make the conversation smoother and that might make the experience more enjoyable for her. I tend to think women are a bit more about the psychological aspects. In that respect, race isn't the key, culture is, but self reported race is a reasonable predictor of culture. Again, no guarantee, nowhere near a guarantee, but it skews the odds.
In some academic, pedantic sense of the word it is racist, but not in the ordinary sense in which it is used. "Racism" carries a connotation of improper, unethical, and probably hateful, exclusionary behavior which disadvantages some group and prevents them from participating in society. Screening your sexual partners based on race does none of that.
So, if you want to call that racism, sure, it's screening based on race plainly. However, you've watered down the word "racism" to the point where it's not something objectionable, the way it ordinarily is.
great bear said:
That would give me the perfect excuse for my "modest" size. I can then say the water was cold.
Not that theres anything wrong with that.
LancsLad said:
So, your admitting you have been "shrink" wrapped? This is not a phsychological test.
