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Harper wants to make prostitution illegal

Never Compromised

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Feb 1, 2006
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Actually, it would still be legal to sell sex, it would just be illegal to buy sex.


The Gazette

Saturday, March 03, 2007

Few current endeavours are nobler or more urgent than the effort to stamp out the worldwide trafficking in human beings, but the Liberals and Conservatives on the Commons committee on the status of women have come up with a pretty misguided way to go about it.

The committee's report, tabled this week with bipartisan accord, urges the government to make it illegal to buy sex - not to sell it, mind you, just to buy it. But put aside the illogic of that, as well as the absurdity of trying to outlaw sexual transactions in a culture that has pretty well succeeded in turning sex into a commodity, and we're not convinced this "war on johns" would do what it's supposed to do.

The argument goes something like this: As most modern slavery involves the sexual exploitation of women and children, then governments must do what they can to make their countries unattractive to traffickers. "If Canada is going to be charging the customer," Liberal MP Maria Minna said, "the chances are that the demand is going to go down."

Maybe.

But it's unlikely demand will go down enough to discourage traffickers. Attempts in other jurisdictions to fight prostitution by going after johns don't seem to have eradicated commercial sex. Even publishing the names of "found-ins" in newspapers and on websites hasn't had more than a fleeting impact on sexual transactions in the places it has been tried.

Sweden has recently made it an offence to buy sex, but it's too soon to tell whether Scandinavians have had any luck in curtailing the unruly passions of their citizens.

That such measures seldom succeed should come as no surprise. Prostitution is older than civilization and probably as old as speech, and shows no sign of disappearing any time soon. That doesn't make it good or healthy, but it does underline the futility of trying to use legislation to outlaw what is essentially a private vice. The best you can do is limit and regulate it, and we already have laws that do that - laws that forbid soliciting, for example, and operating a "bawdy house" or living off the avails of prostitution.

It could even be argued some of these laws are excessive in that they create unnecessarily dangerous working conditions for prostitutes. As long as sex remains a legal activity, criminalizing its purchase seems illogical, provided buyer and seller are both consenting adults.

The target of any effort to wipe out human trafficking should be the exploiters, not the buyers and sellers, and police and prosecutors already have all the legislative tools they need to do that. Slavery is already a crime, and so is coercing women to have sex and sexually exploiting children. Surely, the solution is to enforce those laws, and not to harass a group of hapless Canadian citizens.

At the very least, perhaps Parliament should wait to see how the Swedish experiment turns out before adding yet more articles to the Criminal Code.

© The Gazette (Montreal) 2007
 

papasmerf

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enduser1 said:
I hope the Harper government falls first.

EU
Since your economy seems to be growing I would reconsider that.
 

ig-88

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So what will happen now?

I am not familiar with Canadian government procedures.

I'm guessing someone would have to turn this report into a bill, which would need to be voted on by the Parliament?

When and how would we find out about the result of the vote? Whether or not the bill becomes law?
 

danmand

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The swedish experiment in abolishing prostitution is not without criticism, especially from sex workers. Here are a few paragraphs from a critical report based on interviews with sex workers. Note the law against procurement:

Sexwork is officially not considered work in Sweden. Rather, prostitution is seen as a social ill and a form of men's violence against women. Women who sell sex are considered victims who need protection by the state. Male or transgendered sexworkers are rarely spoken of. In the task of creating a better and more equal society, the Swedish state has determined that prostitution has to be abolished. This is an opinion rarely called into question.

The law against procurement renders it illegal to work indoors, work with others, to profit from the sexual labour of others, and advertise. Some women interviewed express satisfaction with the effect this law has had on exploitative pimps, since there have been relatively few of them in Sweden the last two decades. Other sexworkers find this law discriminatory. They believe that they, like any other worker or businessperson, should have the right to a reasonable work environment, work collectively, advertise or open a business etc.

Due to the law against procurement, sexworkers are forced to lie in order to rent premises, or alternatively they have to pay exorbitant rent. Either way, they constantly worry about being discovered. They also report often having to move (when discovered) and being treated badly by landlords and "rent pimps". Some women prefer to make contact with their customers on the street. Other sexworkers find this too humiliating.

Most of the women I have spoken to wish to be able to work together with others. This is to ensure safety and to support each other. They find it unfair that they cannot do this and feel scared when they have to work alone.

This law also makes it difficult for sexworkers to cohabit with a partner since it is illegal to receive any of a sexworker's income. It is hard for a sexworker to have a family at all since sexworkers are considered to be unfit parents and therefore can lose custody of their children if it emerges that they sell sex.

.
 
Mar 19, 2006
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papasmerf said:
Since your economy seems to be growing I would reconsider that.
Some people are never satisfied.

This forum is rife with those who long for the good ole' days of Liberal corruption, scandal and all round mismanagement.
 

mandrill

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We already have a law against procurement that makes it impossible to work legally out of an incall place and share income and expenses with other women. Fortunately the Supreme Court specifically ruled that splitting expenses with a legitimate cohabitation life-partner is exempt from the criminal law. This was not in the law as written, but the Court made a judicial exception for this situation.

Legalizing prositution would assist in that many more women would work as prostitutes and therefore prices would likely drop. Guys would become canny about "stings" and only use girls who were already vouched for by agencies and escorts that were already well-known. Therefore, the Red Zone and Eros independent girls would lose most of their business.

I hope all you idiots who voted for the Tories in the last election realize the kind of government you have now. These Western rednecks are just itching to turn Canada into another Texas.
 

Berlin

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Compromised said:
Harper wants to make prostitution illegal.

Actually, it would still be legal to sell sex, it would just be illegal to buy sex.
Good luck ,Harp.
 

james t kirk

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papasmerf said:
Since your economy seems to be growing I would reconsider that.
Paul Martin was the reason the economy is where it is at today.
 

Lord_Phan

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james t kirk said:
Paul Martin was the reason the economy is where it is at today.
You just proved you have absolutely no knowledge of Economics man, the growth in the economy in the 90's the was result of the Conservative NAFTA initiative coupled with the elimination of the manufactory tax and replacing it with the Goods and Services Tax.



Edit: I joke woke up man :p
 

thompo69

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Nov 11, 2004
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ig-88 said:
So what will happen now?

I am not familiar with Canadian government procedures.

I'm guessing someone would have to turn this report into a bill, which would need to be voted on by the Parliament?

When and how would we find out about the result of the vote? Whether or not the bill becomes law?
Yes, someone would have to draft a bill, and it would have to be considered and adopted by both the House of Commons and the Senate before it became law. If this bill were to have any chance of actually becoming law, it would need to be drafted and introduced by the government, as private member's bills rarely go anywhere.

I found the title of this thread interesting, and also somewhat misleading. Harper hasn't said he wants to do anything. This was a House of Commons committee report, meaning it is the opinion of 12 back bench MPs, not of the government. In fact, the recommendations concerning prostitution are the opinion of only 10, as the BQ filed a dissenting report. It should also be remembered that in December another committee produced a report that essentially recommended the exact opposite to this one. The chances of anything happening in this area are somewhere between slim and none.
 

papasmerf

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james t kirk said:
Paul Martin was the reason the economy is where it is at today.
Paul Martin is your...................???????????? Nothing?
 

james t kirk

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Aug 17, 2001
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Lord_Phan said:
You just proved you have absolutely no knowledge of Economics man, the growth in the economy in the 90's the was result of the Conservative NAFTA initiative coupled with the elimination of the manufactory tax and replacing it with the General Sales Tax.
No doubt, however, until Paul Martin came along successive gov'ts (both Conservative and Liberal) were consistently spending more money than they had year after year with bigger and bigger deficits each and every time. Quite simply, they were driving this country to bankruptcy. It's quite easy to keep spending more money than you have. Politically, everyone loves you. It's quite another to manage your money, cut spending, and pay down debt. Until Paul Martin came along, every single finance minister was quite happy to deficit finance.

BTW, it's the Goods and Services Tax.
 
Mar 19, 2006
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james t kirk said:
Paul Martin was the reason the economy is where it is at today.
LMAO.

The Liberal mind is a wonderous thing.

All good things are the result of Liberal policy. All bad things are the result of Conservative policy.

What colour is the sky in the world Scotty beamed you to?
 

danmand

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lookingforitallthetime said:
LMAO.

The Liberal mind is a wonderous thing.

All good things are the result of Liberal policy. All bad things are the result of Conservative policy.

What colour is the sky in the world Scotty beamed you to?
The US never played a big part in WWI and WWII, they only joined the allied forces in Europe, whan the germans were defeated.
 

Dancerfan

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Dec 22, 2001
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Lord_Phan said:
Show me where Harper said this, your only quote comes from a Liberal MP.
Thats right, nowhere there did it say Harper wants this or that!
And,if you asked left wing types like Jack Layton about this, he would say its violence against women, then theyd do a search for "root causes" and then call for sweeping bans against it all!
 

papasmerf

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danmand said:
The US never played a big part in WWI and WWII, they only joined the allied forces in Europe, whan the germans were defeated.
Who the FUCK are you???????????

Tell that to the survivors
 

danmand

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papasmerf said:
Who the FUCK are you???????????

Tell that to the survivors
I thought we might as well get the discussion even further away from the issue of prostitution.
 

papasmerf

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danmand said:
I thought we might as well get the discussion even further away from the issue of prostitution.
Now it is up to you to back up your thesis or withdraw it
 

gramage

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Nice to know that the political answer to a pig farm full of corpses is to try and push the industry further into the shadows. When the next field full of bodies shows up (and if this is their plan, it will) I wonder what the new plan will be then, stiffer penalties for parole violations?
 
Ashley Madison
Toronto Escorts