Guantanamo Khadr interrogations

[gryfin]

Summary execution is the ordinary fate of non-combatants who commit treason and murder under martial law. His only legal hope of evading that fate lies with trying to persuade someone that he is a POW, and he is clearly not.

Of course the US is too wishy-washy to do what most other countries--especially Arab/Mulsim countries--would do, which is take him out and have him shot.

Sorry to upset your little applecart of stereotypes but it's you who's been left behind by far more sophisticated people.

Many countries rehabilitate child soldiers, including Angola, Mozambique, Rwanda, and Somalia.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/people/features/childrensrights/childrenofconflict/soldier.shtml

 

[red]

Of course the US is too wishy-washy to do what most other countries--especially Arab/Mulsim countries--would do, which is take him out and have him shot.

not many people in Canada wish to live under sharia but if thats your wish I would suggest moving to the middle east.

 

[WoodPeckr]

Of course the US is too wishy-washy to do what most other countries -especially Arab/Mulsim countries--would do, which is take him out and have him shot.

If you have problems with Democarcy move the a nation more in tune with your non-democratic leanings, say the arab ME...

 

[reboot]

The case of Omar Khadr is complicated by a number of issues:

1) He was 15 years old when he was captured.

2) He was a Canadian fighting on behalf of an enemy of Canada.

3) He was not uniformed or formally recognized as a soldier of Afghanistan.

The Geneva Convention is not likely to be of much help in his circumstances since it really only deals with soldiers. There are vague references to treatment prior to making a determination of status of someone; however, for the purposes of the convention, the US commander on the ground who deemed him not to be a soldier is probably sufficient authority. Reference to treatment under the Geneva Convention ends at that point.

US treatment of Khadr seems to have been questionable. There is some suggestion that he was tortured at some time during his lengthy detention. How this matters is unclear to me. Certainly it is an issue for the US forces that have detained him and it is an issue for the political leadership. Torture is frowned upon in western countries in general but I find the moralizing about torture a bit over the top to say the least.

It seems clear that the US is willing to turn Khadr over to Canada if the Canadian government chooses to make such a request. The Harper government does not seem that keen on doing so. Rather, it holds that Khadr is a legitimate detainee facing legitimate charges. I can't honestly say I feel different. Khadr made his choices and is suffering the consequences. The effort to save him now seems more than a bit like an attempt to let him get away with murder -- metaphorically. There is little doubt that Khadr was engaged in combat against US military forces.

The fact that Khadr was underage at the time of his capture is certainly something worth keeping in mind though. While it is true that there are international conventions about the treatment of underage combatants, and Khadr falls within that category, it is not the case that the application of such conventions is or should be applied without some pause.

If there is a case to be made for Omar Khadr, it really falls on the expectation of recognizing his humanity, regardless of his beliefs or his actions. Khadr was just a kid. If this had been World War II and he had been a member of the Hitler Youth called into service to defend Berlin, and he had survived the battle, the chances are good that the Red Army soldiers who captured him would have given him a slap to the head and told him to go home. It happened.

So, although I tend to believe that a third shot, to the head, would have been an acceptable solution in the moment, I find the decision, on the ground, to not do so good enough reason to release him because he was just a kid.

 

[Rockslinger]

especially Arab/Mulsim countries--would do, which is take him out and have him shot.

It is not shot. It is chop off their heads and recorded on DVD.

 

[Rockslinger]

then how do you differentiate us from them?

Don't really like this differentiation where we are morally superior to "them" and, therefore we must turn the other cheek and play nice while the bully kicks sand in our face. If the other guy kicks sand in my face, I promise I will kick sand in his face even if there is a rule that says no kicking sand in faces.

 

[Rockslinger]

The decision to not use mustard gas or nerve gas
was based on the agreement that neither side of
the war would use it.

Agreed. Don't shoot mustard gas in my face and I won't shoot mustard gas in your face. Can't get any more moral than that.

 

[Rockslinger]

He is a Canadian citizen, and as far as I know we only have one class of citizens in Canada, each with equal rights.

When he took up arms against Canada or our allies, he waived his right of Canadian citizenship. There are Canadians currently in jail in Mexico, Saudi Arabia, China, etc. They are the ones who deserve our sympathy and concern.

 

[Rockslinger]

So we have another proud canadian who is ready to lynch someone without the benefit of a trial.

Those who say bring him home to face Canadian justice should ask: "How many people are currently in jail for the Air India bombings?" Canadian justice at its best. What a joke!

 

[Rockslinger]

I think if some white man landed in my country

Omar Khadr was born in Canada. So, that makes Canada his COUNTRY until he decided to take up arms against Canada and our allies.

 

[red]

Don't really like this differentiation where we are morally superior to "them" and, therefore we must turn the other cheek and play nice while the bully kicks sand in our face. If the other guy kicks sand in my face, I promise I will kick sand in his face even if there is a rule that says no kicking sand in faces.

My thought is more along the lines - if a bully kicks sand in my face, I call the cops and have him arrested. he has a trial and is sentenced appropriately. I then launch a civil action as well.

not turning the other cheek, but following the rule of law

 

[red]

When he took up arms against Canada or our allies, he waived his right of Canadian citizenship. There are Canadians currently in jail in Mexico, Saudi Arabia, China, etc. They are the ones who deserve our sympathy and concern.

well he never took up arms against Canada. Its a question to be settled at his trial whether he took up arms against the U.S. i.e. our allies. There certainly seems to be evidence that he was in a location that was attacked by US troops- other than that much would seem to be decided at a trial.

Its also a question whether as a 15 year old boy he should be treated as a child, whether as a child soldier or child criminal.

Since he was born here, there is no mechanism I am aware of for him to lose his citizenship.

 

[red]

Omar Khadr was born in Canada. So, that makes Canada his COUNTRY until he decided to take up arms against Canada and our allies.

it still makes him Canadian no matter what. even if the allegations are proven to be true.

 

[red]

Those who say bring him home to face Canadian justice should ask: "How many people are currently in jail for the Air India bombings?" Canadian justice at its best. What a joke!

the air india trial was a shame but does not reflect the entire Canadian judiciary system, no more than the wrongful convictions reported recently.

 

[danmand]

When he took up arms against Canada or our allies, he waived his right of Canadian citizenship.

He did not waive anything and you know it. He is a canadian citizen just
like you are, no more, no less. Canada has no apartheit laws.

And as red ponited out, nothing has been proven about him taking up arms.
We know he was at a location where a fight was going on. So were some civilians in
Iraq, who were murdered by the uS marines.

Or is it that you believe every allegation the US says. Then show me the WMD's in Iraq.

 

[guelph]

well he never took up arms against Canada. Its a question to be settled at his trial whether he took up arms against the U.S. i.e. our allies. There certainly seems to be evidence that he was in a location that was attacked by US troops- other than that much would seem to be decided at a trial.

Correct so far the only evidence presented is evidence that documents were falsified to make a case against him.

I think that was to protect the soldier who shot him in the back while unarmed.

 

[Rockslinger]

He did not waive anything and you know it.

Then he should have done the honourable thing and renounced his Canadian citizenship. Too much to ask? Unfortunately, some people use their Canadian citizenship as a shield to protect themselves while they commit mayhem abroad. Should we bring back that Neil fellow from Thailand as well?

Query: Do you believe everything that Omar and his family tell you?

 

[fuji]

normally we wait until people accused of crimes are actually convicted before we put them in jail (we don't execute murderers in Canada).

Not sure why you are talking about Canada. Khadr was captured in Afghanistan, and is therefore subject to military justice according to the martial law that was in place there. The place was at war.

Not sure where on earth the treason comment comes from. Here the legal definition for you:

Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada

The Criminal Code of Canada has no relevance here. However this bit fits generally:

"Every one commits treason who, in Canada, uses force or violence for the purpose of overthrowing the government of Canada or a province"

Except that it would be the government and occupation administration of Afghanistan, in Afghanistan, against which he committed treason.

The penalty for high treason is life imprisonment.

In Canada. In Afghanistan under martial law the penalty is presumably death by firing squad. That is the general punishment that applies to any serious crime in an area under martial law, which Afghanistan was under.

That's what the Geneva Conventions accept, anyway.

Khadr is one of two things: An enemy soldier captured in the course of war, or a common criminal who has been committing murder and treason. He does not fit the definition of a soldier and is therefore not entitled to the protections granted by the Geneva Conventions. He is therefore a common criminal.

Under martial law common criminals caught committing grevious offenses are commonly executed on the spot.

By cooking up this "unlawful enemy combatant" category the US did him a huge favor and granted him all sorts of rights and processes to which he wasn't entitled under international law. The soldiers who captured him, after having consulted with an ad hoc tribunal of officers to verify that he was not a POW, should have shot him and buried him in an unmarked shallow grave.

 

[Rockslinger]

Not sure why you are talking about Canada. Khadr was captured in Afghanistan, and is therefore subject to military justice according to the martial law that was in place there.

Some people think that the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms applies to every single person on the face of this planet. Our Charter supersedes every other sovereign country's laws and constitution.

 

[danmand]

Then he should have done the honourable thing and renounced his Canadian citizenship. Too much to ask? Unfortunately, some people use their Canadian citizenship as a shield to protect themselves while they commit mayhem abroad. Should we bring back that Neil fellow from Thailand as well?

Query: everything that Omar and his family tell you?

Actually, the Khadrs have not told me anything. I am unaware of any
statements from them, and would not care what his family says anyway.
They have clearly failed as parents and family for Omar, and should not be
allowed any contact with him.

I think the question is if you believe everything the US tells you?