Got the first ticket ever.....please help

[gentle_lover]

LOL you really do not get it? If you cancelled your insurance you were driving without insurance, a VERY serious offence. So you are asking.. “Can I go to court and get the minor charge of driving without the insurance card thrown out by making confessing to the much more serious charge of having no insurance. Not expired! Cancelled it myself then drove anyway.”

Road warier either missed the details, or was being a nice guy.

Read my previous replies LL. It is expired and I chose not to renew the policy.
Once again, the policy is expired on Dec 27, 2007. It wasnt cancelled. I chose not to renew it because I had a problem with the broker, and she was the only broker that I know. It was expired, not cancelled. Sorry, for using the word "cancel".

 

[blopar]

But you still decided to continue to drive notwithstanding the circumstances...

 

[LordLoki]

Read my previous replies LL. It is expired and I chose not to renew the policy.
Once again, the policy is expired on Dec 27, 2007. It wasnt cancelled. I chose not to renew it because I had a problem with the broker, and she was the only broker that I know. It was expired, not cancelled. Sorry, for using the word "cancel".

So you made a conscious decision to not renew your insurance? Then drove without valid insurance? Wow nice gray zone. So are you going to perjure yourself in court to claim it was just “expired” and you did not know? Or are you going to admit you had no intention to renew it and were wilfully driving with out insurance?

By the way, other than the thousand odd TERBites that you explained your decision to, have you told anyone else? Remember that if you think about trying to fudge the info in court.

Get a reallllly good lawyer if you go to court

 

[Keebler Elf]

He canceled the policy and let it lapse which is a huge difference.

He let it lapse for 3 days, and during the holidays no less.

If you don't think there's a judge/JP out there that won't take pity on him, you're dreaming. Three days is nothing, especially if he can show he was in the process of obtaining insurance elsewhere.

 

[Keebler Elf]

So are you going to perjure yourself in court to claim it was just “expired” and you did not know? Or are you going to admit you had no intention to renew it and were wilfully driving with out insurance?

Maybe he'll just say he knew his insurance was running out at the end of December, was in the process of renewing with another company, and unfortunately the coverage didn't overlap by a period of 3 days. It may not be that easy to renew insurance during the holiday period.

At the very least he has a shot at being granted leniency. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Jeez, the number of people around here who want to exact every frikken pound of flesh for every minute violation of the law. Such vengeance. There must be something deep down inside fueling that bitterness.

 

[LordLoki]

Maybe he'll just say he knew his insurance was running out at the end of December, was in the process of renewing with another company, and unfortunately the coverage didn't overlap by a period of 3 days. It may not be that easy to renew insurance during the holiday period.

At the very least he has a shot at being granted leniency. Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Jeez, the number of people around here who want to exact every frikken pound of flesh for every minute violation of the law. Such vengeance. There must be something deep down inside fueling that bitterness.

Keebler, if he says that in court he is committing perjury. If he gets caught he will discover the joys of the criminal justice system. For $65 bucks you want him to risk that?

 

[xarir]

Regarding the reasonable time limit to bringing a case to trial, the TERB Collective Wisdom comes through again. I`ve read through the Morin case (http://www.hrcr.org/safrica/access_courts/Canada/r_morin.html) and what I get out if it is that shit happens, courtrooms get backed up and sometimes cases are delayed. If that`s the situation, it must be demonstrated that such a delay impaired your case and your ability to have a fair trial. As an ancillary aspect, it should also be demonstrated that such delay was not in the public interest of seeing speedy resolution to criminal cases.

Let`s face it - section 11(b) of the Charter is designed to protect the public interest. In our (somewhat) common sense Canadian approach, this clearly does not extend to traffic fines. The whole spirit of the Charter is to promote a well-functioning Canadian society. If 10 years ago charges had been laid in the Air India case but trial was still outstanding today, that would probably be a clear 11(b). (Tragic as that would be.)

But as I learn more about 11(b) and its application, I feel less confident in my own case and now in gentle_lover`s case as well.

 

[diver]

I just realized that he put "fail to have insurance card" on the ticket. I did have my insurance card, but it was expired 3 days. Shouldnt he put "driving with expred insurance card" ? or they have the same meaning?

If you don't have valid insurance then you don't have an insurance card. If you had insurance with another company but were carrying the wrong card you might have a chance of an explanation. I'd be more worried about getting insurance from another carrier if you have this on your record. I'd call the insurance company that expired directly and get them to renew it. I believe they have to honour a lapsed policy for a certain number of days. Another carrier might not touch you right now and if you are caught lying by an insurance company none of them will take you on with out super premiums, especially if you have only been driving for 4 years. If you've been driving longer than that you should know that 4 years isn't an especially long time.

 

[Gentle Ben]

We all make mistakes, kowingly driving without insurance, at 50% over the posted speed limit, and reason you didn't have insurance is because you had personal issues with your Agent,and didnt renew because you don't know any others is niether bright nor is it sound defence,,,,,,,,,,, I would consider yourself very lucky, do as others have said, get insurance asap,and pay the tickets, If you take the No insurance ticket to court, I wonder what the chances of the Judge noticing the lapse in coverage, if you're asked to produce documents?
Also, 4 yrs isint a long time to be driving infraction free, I think that you, like many others (including myself) have been guilty of infractions many times over, but just havent been caught!.

Consider yourself very lucky this time around, I think the Cop was in Christmas spirit personally.

 

[LordLoki]

Consider yourself very lucky this time around, I think the Cop was in Christmas spirit personally.

I agree.

The cop saw the expired card and gave him a break by reducing the charge.
If it goes to court Cop will inform Crown because he does not want to look like an idiot.
If gl told cop he had decided not to renew cop will also share that with Crown.

And by definition when second charge was laid, he had a previous one.

To Quote Hunter… Toast.

 

[The Bandit]

But don't brokers send you a renewal at least a month in advance? No reason for the holiday "excuse", you just let it slide and now you're asking for sympathy from the justice system.

Can you honestly say that after the holidays you were going to get around to renewing your insurance?

 

[alligatorshoes]

Last used Section 11(b) of the Charter successfully three months ago at the Provincial Court on Markham Street on a speeding charge. 35 cases on the dockket that day. All had been stopped by the came officer on the same day. 34 plead guilty and were convicted. I filed a Charter Application and was successful. Crown waited my case until the end. Everyone else had left the court.

Morin case does not apply here because it was a Criminal Code offence. Cases that do apply are speeding cases heard by J.P,s or provincial court judges. An alleged murderer will not walk free because of a 10 month delay. A speeder probably will.

 

[thompo69]

For the speeding ticket, he put H.T.A. but he left the section blank. Did he fail to put the section? Can I do something about this?

For the insurance ticket, he put C.A.I.A. section 3(1)

Doubtful that anything would happen because he failed to write the section, but might be worth asking a lawyer about. Some errors and omissions are considered fatal to the charge, but I don't think that's one as long as he has indicated the offence (speeding).

As for the CAIA, it's the Compulsory Automobile Insurance Act, and subsection 3(1) states:

"3. (1) An operator of a motor vehicle on a highway shall have in the motor vehicle at all times,

(a) an insurance card for the motor vehicle; or

(b) an insurance card evidencing that the operator is insured under a contract of automobile insurance,

and the operator shall surrender the insurance card for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer."

So, as much as you had a card, it was essentially worthless. The maximum fine for the charge is $400.

 

[hunter001]

He let it lapse for 3 days, and during the holidays no less.

.

You farking idio* he said he canceled his insurance not let it lapse there is a huge difference. He did correct himself; however; he did know that he was driving without insurance and choose not to because it was inconvenient timing. He is lucky he didn't hit someone. It isn't a minor offense.

 

[The Bandit]

Read my previous replies LL. It is expired and I chose not to renew the policy.
Once again, the policy is expired on Dec 27, 2007. It wasnt cancelled. I chose not to renew it because I had a problem with the broker, and she was the only broker that I know. It was expired, not cancelled. Sorry, for using the word "cancel".

Hunter, maybe you need to read ALL the posts....

 

[papasmerf]

Hunter, maybe you need to read ALL the posts....

Choosing not to renew still makes him liable for driving without insurance.......Would people be so forgiving if they were hit by him??

 

[hunter001]

I just realized that he put "fail to have insurance card" on the ticket. I did have my insurance card, but it was expired 3 days. Shouldnt he put "driving with expred insurance card" ? or they have the same meaning?

Pay that ticket as soon as possible the cop gave you a seasonal gift you should be thankful.

 

[papasmerf]

Pay that ticket as soon as possible the cop gave you a season gift you should be thankful.

I agree and he should buy insurance if he has not already.

 

[LordLoki]

The speeding ticket is for $119 and the ticket for not having a valid insurance is $65.

I have a great idea. Go to court and then you can tell us who is right? Worse case: we will know what happened, the guy helping you makes a few hundred profit, and you pay a few thousand more to the courts.

TOFTT !!! Go for it and let us know. We have nothing to loose on this one.

 

[hunter001]

If you don't think there's a judge/JP out there that won't take pity on him, you're dreaming. Three days is nothing, especially if he can show he was in the process of obtaining insurance elsewhere.

lol. He should try that and maybe you should go with him. To say that "I let my insurance lapse and I drove without it" is an stupid excuse.

You can arrange insurance online, over the phone or take a fricking bus/taxi. Just because you say you had intentions of get insurance is no excuse for driving without any.