Getting hydroxychloroquine

[Ben19]

He never claimed that is zero death you have to watch the whole entirely video! .. He was trying to figure out what is the risk ?
He wanted to find out or quantify the risk!
He could not find any death associated due to HCQ meanwhile all those newspaper headlines by FDA and NCBI screaming taking HCQ is high risk due to cardiac!

He is in agreement with you which clearly at beginning of his presentation that he trying to point out it low risk or extremely low risk vs the screaming headline from newspaper quoting or maybe misquoting of FDA that is high risk and potential high risk of cardiac failure from taking HCQ.

You should not attack someone characters like Dr. Chris Martenson by taking something out of context without watching the whole video! Which you clearly didn’t watch the whole video. I think Dr Chris Martenson have lot of integrity . You only a medical student. But if you clearly feel he is totally incorrect and his video is garbage! I dare you to email him! Because he will respond to your email & question and will post his response on his video!
And I will post over here on Terb so you can watch it. If you want I can post his email address on this post here for you. .. lol

PS By the way ... He has a PhD in pathology from Duke university and also MBA from ( Cornell) , VP of a Fortune 500 companies.

I am not a medical student. For reasons of privacy I won’t say what my qualifications are but I am more qualified than a PhD pathologist and economist to make comments on this subject. Is he not a MD? I think that would explain a lot actually. Once your in the ICU and your opinions are no longer just thoughts and might actually kill someone if you’re not careful your views on things will change.

And I certainty won’t be emailing him since after watching part of his videos it is clear this man is not after science but rather the shock value and views. If he was after science why is he making a you tube video and not submitting his opinions to medical editorials.

My intentions are not to make this about people’s qualifications but rather just encourage people to follow the primary evidence, realize there are significant variation on the results and to trust the experts qualified on this topic to decipher those differences once more evidence is out there. If you have a hypothesis on something you will find evidence for it especially when there are 50k studies on it. You have to be able to take all the evidence and asses it and put it in context not just the ones that prove your point.

For example you seem to be very excited about this McGill study which isn’t even registered as a RCT and another user was excited about another study from NYC. Once the results come out Ans let’s assume they are in complete opposite of each other how are you going to determine which is right ? The experts making recommendations have years of experience and training in interpreting these results.

I think it’s great your so into this stuff. Instead of YouTube maybe go read JAMA or NEJM honestly they are much better sources. But I think at this point we clearly can’t seem to reach a common ground so let’s just agree to disagree lol

 

[WyattEarp]

WTF is your problem with lawyers now? You seem to have problems and conflicts with everyone, everywhere you go. I surmise that you are a malcontent with an axe to grind with pretty much everyone.

Just my thoughts and observations after reading your TERB posts.

It's hard to convey nuance over a forum where people are taking a few minutes to scan posts in a long thread. I was actually complimenting Ben19's knowledge in this area (as I have been for awhile). He just lays out information and doesn't throw out some blanket "I'm an expert" argument. But having said that, I have read the detailed posts here and I can't say I am convinced one way or another. I think this post gets a lot attention (and thereby Ben 19's comments) because some people really hope hydroxychloroquine is not effective against COVID.

I wasn't criticizing lawyers. I was just criticizing people who claim to be lawyers packaging their opinions as legal expertise. Given the close relationship between politics and the law, they pop up from time to time on the political threads on TERB, MERB, etc. I certainly wouldn't personalize my comment even if you are in or around the legal profession.

As far as calling me a "malcontent" and whether that is out of line name-calling or not, let's just say it's best to stay in the thread and respond directly to a poster's comments and not to the poster. I do try to follow this, but it can be hard at times if you vehemently don't agree with someone or you just don't like their posts. Otherwise, the forum debases to the mob berating members simply because they don't agree with them or have different thoughts.

PS- As far as "conflicts", let's just say you will usually find me in the political threads. Need I explain more.

 

[Ben19]

But having said that, I have read the detailed posts here and I can't say I am convinced one way or another. I think this post gets a lot attention (and thereby Ben 19's comments) because some people really hope hydroxychloroquine is not effective against COVID.

.

I agree with what you say here. I also have a problem with people that hope HCQ doesent work just to fit their political arguments. At the end of the day we should all be hopeful that it would have some benifit my argument is just to be cautious prior to all jumping on the bandwagon and also to realize that any benifit that it will have will most likely be small.

 

[WyattEarp]

I found this article floating around various media outlets regarding Rita Wilson (Tom Hanks' wife) experience with chloroquine and "extreme side effects" interesting for a couple reasons. While I think this article was written with a clear bias, my main point of interest was the media's fascination with this drug and their interest in a celebrity's experience with chloroquine in Australia.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...cts-of-experimental-covid-19-drug-chloroquine

 

[Ben19]

Here are some new results on JAMA on the toxicity of chloroquine class medication from a Brazilian RCT

"The preliminary findings from the CloroCovid-19 trial suggest that higher dosage of chloroquine should not be recommended for the treatment of severe COVID-19, especially among patients also receiving azithromycin and oseltamivir, because of safety concerns regarding QTc interval prolongation and increased lethality."

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2765270

There are signfiicant limitations to this trial, sample size and also the fact that it was mainly desinged to study safety from a dosage standpoint but I hope it illustrates that this drug is not as safe as some here were suggesting. Despite this trial we need to still look at its efficacy.

I also quite like the editorial JAMA put out with this trial
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2765269

One line from this that stood out to me

"Nevertheless, it remains critically important that a commitment not only to high-quality science, but also to accurate and unbiased reporting, remains intact as we seek to publish results as rapidly as possible. Science poorly conducted or poorly reported is counter to the public interest."

 

[WyattEarp]

Given that you're a guy with absolutely NO legal knowledge or medical knowledge "quotation marks", I suggest you simply listen to the lawyers and doctors on the board when they offer you advice and stop arguing with them and asserting your ego as usual.

You still resent that fact that TOGuy and I slapped you down a month or more ago when you offered your own legal opinion "quotation marks" and now you want to wade into a fight with the only qualified doctor on this board who is willing to engage with the daily nonsense that you and your buddies pump out.

You're a time waster and an arguer "quotation marks" and that's pretty much it.

You're the classic example of the type of guy Ben mentions when he talks about unqualified people who argue with whatever expert gives them whatever advice doesn't suit them. Ben has 1,000 times or more the insight and knowledge into medical matters that you have. Yet the first thing you do is attack him.

Yeah, I really don't know what to say. I actually don't remember too much detail of our discussion history. I only remember Frank because he is so prolific in the political forum here and he tightly sticks to certain themes in his posts. It does seem like you do like to pop up in forums and make it personal with me. I'm pretty sure we don't share the same political views.

I haven't really posted much on this thread in support or against hydroxychloroquine. As I explained above, I am very impressed with Ben19's knowledge and have been. However, certain things are facts and certain things are opinions. That would seem obvious I would think.

Quoting my post to mb2010 above, "let's just say it's best to stay in the thread and respond directly to a poster's comments and not to the poster".

 

[Valcazar]

:yo:

I'd add that there have been quite a number of promising results. Which may explain the FDA approval for use.

Now is the time for chit chat to end until the results of use in NYC, double blind tests, etc, are in.

That is, when the FDA & Trump are justified ;

Also, be clear it was FDA approved for "emergency use". This is similar to the concept of "compassionate use" of experimental drugs. If the need is severe and there aren't better options, the FDA may say it is ok to try something that doesn't yet have sufficient evidence. That is basically the "what do you have to lose" theory.

I am pretty sure HCQ isn't the only compound that has that approval right now, as people scramble to pursue anything that might be promising.

EDIT: I see InTo2018 already addressed this.

 

[mandrill]

Yeah, I really don't know what to say. I actually don't remember too much detail of our discussion history. I only remember Frank because he is so prolific in the political forum here and he tightly sticks to certain themes in his posts. It does seem like you do like to pop up in forums and make it personal with me. I'm pretty sure we don't share the same political views.

I haven't really posted much on this thread in support or against hydroxychloroquine. As I explained above, I am very impressed with Ben19's knowledge and have been. However, certain things are facts and certain things are opinions. That would seem obvious I would think.

Quoting my post to mb2010 above, "let's just say it's best to stay in the thread and respond directly to a poster's comments and not to the poster".

Ben's insights and command of the information are appreciated. At the end of the day, I still think Ben is offering a lot of opinion.

It kind of reminds me of the lawyers "quotation marks" who pop up and post on the forums as legal experts. A legal laymen like myself and others will point out that they are still just offering opinion. They get bent out of shape because they are lawyers.

I will say at least Ben doesn't try to say he is an expert in the field.

Yeah..... Maybe you should go back and read your original post. I quoted it for you.

You sure "knew what to say" at that time...... And you seemed to have no difficulty remembering all sorts of past discussions either.

You don't seem to get that when someone with a professional qualification offers you an opinion that it's based on years of work in the field. You appear to think that your own off the cuff, highly political views are entitled to as much weight and when others don't agree with you, they're "bent out of shape". But then..... they're just lawyers "quotation marks", right?

 

[basketcase]

Ben, stop it! LOL

Just kidding, keep going.

It doesn't work. People are still dying every day! Do you really believe the docs would let people die if it worked?

According to porny, they are all part of the deep state using 'identity politics' just to undermine Trump.

 

[WyattEarp]

Yeah..... Maybe you should go back and read your original post. I quoted it for you.

You sure "knew what to say" at that time...... And you seemed to have no difficulty remembering all sorts of past discussions either.

I really don't remember if you have represented yourself as an attorney or engaged in the legal community. I run into several attorneys on several forums. If they tussle on the political threads, they should expect to get challenged law degree or no law degree. (Valcazar knows one that I'm thinking of on MERB.)

I didn't have time to go back in this hydroxychloroquine thread, but I seem to remember some members joking about getting medical advice one way or another on an escort board. Lol. We all need to keep that in perspective here. Anyone who follows my posts, knows I can be quite irreverent.

 

[lenny2]

Also, be clear it was FDA approved for "emergency use".

As the link i provided stated:

"On March 28, the FDA issued an Emergency Use Authorization, which allowed hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine products that were donated to the SNS to be distributed and used for adolescent and adult patients hospitalized with COVID-19 who cannot be part of a clinical trial."

 

[PornAddict]

According to porny, they are all part of the deep state using 'identity politics' just to undermine Trump.

Association Of American Physicians Says 'Trump-Touted' Drug Has 90% Chance Of Helping COVID-19 Patients


Fri, 05/01/2020 - 09:13
Twitter Facebook Reddit Email Print
Via The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons,
https://aapsonline.org/hcq-90-percent-chance/


In a letter to Gov. Doug Ducey of Arizona, https://aapsonline.org/aaps-letter-...er-concerning-hydroxychloroquine-in-covid-19/
the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) presents a frequently updated table of studies that report https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w6p_HqRXCrW0_wYNK7m_zpQLbBVYcvVU/view results of treating COVID-19 with the anti-malaria drugs chloroquine (CQ) and hydroxychloroquine (HCQ, Plaquenil®).

To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S.


Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically.


There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.

The antiviral properties of these drugs have been studied since 2003. Particularly when combined with zinc, they hinder viral entry into cells and inhibit replication. They may also prevent overreaction by the immune system, which causes the cytokine storm responsible for much of the damage in severe cases, explains AAPS. HCQ is often very helpful in treating autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

Additional benefits shown in some studies, AAPS states, is to decrease the number of days when a patient is contagious, reduce the need for ventilators, and shorten the time to clinical recovery.

Peer-reviewed studies published from January through April 20, 2020, https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/preview
provide clear and convincing evidence that HCQ may be beneficial in COVID-19, especially when used early, states AAPS. Unfortunately, although it is perfectly legal to prescribe drugs for new indications not on the label, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has recommended that CQ and HCQ should be used for COVID-19 only in hospitalized patients in the setting of a clinical study if available. Most states are making it difficult for physicians to prescribe or pharmacists to dispense these medications.

As the letter to Gov. Ducey notes,

“Many nations, including Turkey and India, are protecting medical workers and contacts of infected persons prophylactically. According to worldometers.info, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ deaths per million persons from COVID-19 as of Apr 27 are 167 in the U.S., 33 in Turkey, and 0.6 in India.”

After Morocco and Algeria began using HCQ, a trend break and sharp reduction in their COVID-19 case fatality rate occurred.

Covid19Crusher
@Covid19Crusher
https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1254176105730359300
Morocco and Algeria switched to hydroxychlooquine. Their Case Fatality Rate exhibit a "trend break" consistent with the introduction of an active therapeutic agent.



Vaccines and results of randomized double-blind controlled trials of new drugs are at best months away. But patients are dying now, while affordable, long-used drugs would be available except for government restrictions, AAPS states.

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) https://aapsonline.org/
has represented physicians of all specialties in all states since 1943. The AAPS motto is omnia pro aegroto, meaning everything for the patient.



More on next post

 

[PornAddict]

...time for Twitter and Facebook to ban/block/suspend more of America's physicians and surgeons...


Attachments:

Sequential CQ / HCQ Research Papers and Reports, January to April 20, 2020 https://bit.ly/cqhcqresearch

The probabilities of clinical success using hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and zinc against the novel betacoronavirus, COVID-19, revised Apr 26, 2020 https://bit.ly/hcqtable


Hey, Basketcase are you ( suffering from TDS)? It about following the data. So far data is showing some positive benefits. Typically anittrumper demonizing everything related Trump in the end you will kill someone with that statement! No differences then what trump said about injecting disinfectant into your body!

 

[Nesbot]

Wait...you're still pushing this? Aren't we on to the new drug now?

 

[PornAddict]

Wait...you're still pushing this? Aren't we on to the new drug now?

New drug renisevir cost $1000 a pop. New drug mixed results with clinical trial! Jury still out on it! ( maynot be effective as hydroxychloroquine .
Old drug ( hydroxychloroquine ) more effective in early stage of disease cost couple dollars because their are old drug and it is generic drug.

 

[Ben19]

New drug renisevir cost $1000 a pop. New drug mixed results with clinical trial! Jury still out on it! ( maynot be effective as hydroxychloroquine .
Old drug ( hydroxychloroquine ) more effective in early stage of disease cost couple dollars because their are old drug and it is generic drug.

Just to clarify none of these are new. Both were being studied from the beginning. Only thing that is new and changed is the media attention on them.

 

[basketcase]

Just to clarify none of these are new. Both were being studied from the beginning. Only thing that is new and changed is the media attention on them.

And from what I understand have been looked at for every virus for the past decade or two.

 

[shakenbake]

It seems to me like Trump and Dr. Oz must have an interest in the malaria drug.

I can have my own conspiracy theories as well if I want to.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/202...k-bright-blasts-team-trumps-pandemic-response

 

[Ben19]

This thread seems to have died down along side the alt right hype for HCQ as more results are coming in...

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

This JAMA article is a fairly strong albeit still observational study.


Conclusions are “ Among patients hospitalized with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both was not associated with significantly lower in-hospital mortality.”

 

[mandrill]

This thread seems to have died down along side the alt right hype for HCQ as more results are coming in...

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

This JAMA article is a fairly strong albeit still observational study.


Conclusions are “ Among patients hospitalized with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both was not associated with significantly lower in-hospital mortality.”

I appreciate your continuing to inform us about the science behind the epidemic!