For the protection and privacy...

[a 1 player]

Player: I'm not saying she was correct, but as Kyra said in another thread: try to see things from someone else's persepctive which I am.

As you say, it isn't a locker room/pool or whathaveyou but no matter where it is, someone shooting kids without permission is a big no no. (and FYI: a telephoto lens isn't a determining factor).

As for your kids calling out "hey daddy", was she there? Do you know for a fact that she heard the kids and saw the situation? I bet not....

As for the "why" in our society everyone is looking to blame someone else. Should a photo of kids (heaven forbid) show up on a questionable site, I can bet you that the parents would be screaming blue murder at the rink operators for not preventing it.

Before you go jumping on the lawsuit wagon remember we are a common law society: YOU don't press charges, the police agencies do and if there was a charge to be laid, the officer involved would have done it.

I for one would be thankful that the manager in question was so exuberant in protecting your kid's privacy......

tboy,

I understand where you are coming from, I really do, and I agree with you to some extent. I have weighed this over in my mind for a couple of days now and did not make the original post while I was pissed off, but I still feel I am in the right here. The points being...

-When I found out that I was not allowed to take pictures I put away my camera.
-I went to ask permission to take pictures
-I asked politely why my request was denied, when she had the power to grant it. I then offered a reasonable persuasive argument to help her see my side of things.
-She then requested my private property
-She would not give me her name so I could take the matter up with her principal, then tried to evict me for doing NOTHING WRONG.
-SHE TRIED TO PREVENT ME FROM GETTING MY OWN KIDS
-SHE MADE A MOVE TO TOUCH MY PERSON/PROPERTY

Please show me even one instance where I was in the wrong. There is not one.

Secondly, shooting kids IS NOT a big no-no. Does one have to ask permission or get a release signed at:
-a birthday party
-in the park
-at the zoo
-on the street
-at a graduation
-at a Boy Scout camp
-on the beach

None of these are a no-no, and unless ones child is absolutely alone in a portrait shot, IT IS TO BE EXPECTED that once in a while there might just be someone else in the background. No she was not there, and had never seen my kids, but that is irrelevant. If she had asked for proof, I would have been happy to provide it.

Further, never once did I say that I would either lay charges, assault someone or attempt to sue. All I said was that I was sending a letter to show my disgust for the way I was treated, and I have every intention and right to do just that.

 

[The Cunning Linguist]

You must look like a perv....

Seriously, the whole subject of this thread makes me very sad.

What have we come to as a society?

 

[tboy]

Player: As I said previously, she did go overboard but aren't you thankful that she's out there protecting your kid's privacy?

As for those other locations mentioned, I bet it is only a matter of time before we see the banning of photos being taken at those locations as well. How many photos do we see online of women sunbathing topless or whatever?

A Boy Scout Camp is a little different, I'd have to assume that only parents would be allowed entry. Same as a birthday party, it is a private affair and I can bet if you rented the rink for a birthday party, you'd have no problem taking pics.

Again I say you offerred no proof whatsoever that you WEREN'T a perv taking pictures of kids other than your own so she was just looking out (albeit very aggressively) for the welfare of YOUR kids.

Anyhow, you feel your rights were violated and you were mistreated, go ahead and write your letter, that's your right. But remember this: how will you feel if some perv DOES go out there shooting pics and they do nothing because they are afraid of losing their job because of some complaint letter?

 

[Never Compromised]

The manager has obviously reached her level of incompetence.

1) write to the highest ranking civil servant of the department you were attempting to use
2) cc the letter to your councillor and another copy to the Mayor's Office. Do personalize the letter to the councillor saying that you expect an answer from his/her office on the matter. Don't expect the Mayor's Office to reply.

Written consent usually means filling out miles of paperwork weeks in advance and submitting them to some unnamed bureaucrat labouring in the bowels of some hidden City building someplace very inconvenient.

 

[rama putri]

Player: As I said previously, she did go overboard but aren't you thankful that she's out there protecting your kid's privacy?

She didn't protect anyone's privacy. She followed a policy that was poorly and probably expeditiously written up to appear to prevent and protect the public.

But remember this: how will you feel if some perv DOES go out there shooting pics and they do nothing because they are afraid of losing their job because of some complaint letter?

This is exactly the fear based society that I would rather not live in. What we have lost in today's world is the average person with average authority to think critically. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[tboy]

I actually disagree Rama, by stopping or preventing player from taking pictures she protected everyone's privacy at the rink.

As for not wanting to live in a society that takes steps to prevent any privacy infringement, I suggest you move to Britain then, they have more cameras per capita than any other country. I read somewhere that when someone leaves their house there they are caught on camera about 100 times on any given day.

Now please tell me that you're not naive enough to think that a lawsuit wouldn't be forthcoming if someone's kid gets photographed at the rink and ends up on a child porn site? If you don't believe that to be the case then you are one naive SOB.....

Like the muslims on a plane thread, it is unfortunate that a few ruin it for the many.......

BTW Steely: he already got some shots of his kid's first skate. He just wanted more. And as soon as he saw the signs that said "no photographs" he could have gone elsewhere. Or are you of the opinion that rules are made to be broken and that because player wanted the photos he should be allowed to and everyone else shouldn't?

Just one more thing that we haven't touched on: I don't know about you but a flash in the eyes while a kid is learning to skate can screw up their vision long enough so that they might get hurt. Maybe that's another reason they don't allow flash photography.....

 

[a 1 player]

Anyhow, you feel your rights were violated and you were mistreated, go ahead and write your letter, that's your right. But remember this: how will you feel if some perv DOES go out there shooting pics and they do nothing because they are afraid of losing their job because of some complaint letter?

tboy,

You are way off base and have no clue what you are talking about, further you are putting words in my mouth. I do not feel my rights were violated, she followed her rules which is fine with me, even though I did not like the outcome. My issue is solely this:

She is a bitch who went well beyond her scope of duty and tried to evict/ touch me for doing nothing more than asking questions. That is it, nothing more.

 

[a 1 player]

I actually disagree Rama, by stopping or preventing player from taking pictures she protected everyone's privacy at the rink.

Yes she did.

As for not wanting to live in a society that takes steps to prevent any privacy infringement, I suggest you move to Britain then, they have more cameras per capita than any other country. I read somewhere that when someone leaves their house there they are caught on camera about 100 times on any given day.

And in every case no permission is being asked to photograph/video tape, nor is it in elevators, or any other private residence in the country.

Now please tell me that you're not naive enough to think that a lawsuit wouldn't be forthcoming if someone's kid gets photographed at the rink and ends up on a child porn site? If you don't believe that to be the case then you are one naive SOB...

..

In a snow suit??? This is the most insane rambling I have come across in a long time, you can do better than this tboy, I know you can.

Like the muslims on a plane thread, it is unfortunate that a few ruin it for the many.......

I agree.

BTW Steely: he already got some shots of his kid's first skate. He just wanted more. And as soon as he saw the signs that said "no photographs" he could have gone elsewhere. Or are you of the opinion that rules are made to be broken and that because player wanted the photos he should be allowed to and everyone else shouldn't?

I followed the rules every step of the way, to the point of asking for written permission as required. This thread is not about breaking or following rules, lets stay on topic please.

Just one more thing that we haven't touched on: I don't know about you but a flash in the eyes while a kid is learning to skate can screw up their vision long enough so that they might get hurt. Maybe that's another reason they don't allow flash photography.....

I already though of that and no flash was used. I set the camera to a wide open aperture to purposely avoid the flash.

 

[blueline]

tboy,

You are way off base and have no clue what you are talking about, further you are putting words in my mouth. I do not feel my rights were violated, she followed her rules which is fine with me, even though I did not like the outcome. My issue is solely this:

She is a bitch who went well beyond her scope of duty and tried to evict/ touch me for doing nothing more than asking questions. That is it, nothing more.

Hey A1P - if you are in the Hamilton area, try the new outdoor rink in Dundas at the Driving Park. I was there over the holidays and there were several cameras going off. At first I thought they were pointing the cameras at me for making my return to the former home of where my glory days took place ....lol. But there are lots of small kids there with parents and taking pics didn't seem to pose any problems.

 

[oldjones]

Please someone, 'splain how pictures of fully clothed kids—winter skating clothes at that—constitute a danger to anyone, even in the hands of a 'perv'. It's knee-jerk vigilantism, as prevalent on TERB as anywhere, which produces the stupidity a 1 player encountered.

Anyway, pix at an outdoor rink will have prettier backgounds, and it's harder to trespass, or be evicted from a park.

 

[a 1 player]

if you are in the Hamilton area, try the new outdoor rink in Dundas at the Driving Park..

Thank for the heads up, unfortunately I am clear on the other end of the city, but I do like that park. Is that what all the consturction was for this summer? I hope they did more than build just that.

 

[snowleopard]

Now please tell me that you're not naive enough to think that a lawsuit wouldn't be forthcoming if someone's kid gets photographed at the rink and ends up on a child porn site? If you don't believe that to be the case then you are one naive SOB.....

Granted, I've never checked out a child porn site, but I also have to wonder how many pics you would find of kids dressed from head to toe in winter clothing and skates ... though I guess there are more bizarre fetishes out there.

The unfortunate reality is that it's far more likely to be uncle xxx in the bedroom, or someone else known to the child, taking the photos, than some perverted stranger at the rink.

Whatever, I think you guys have what is know here as an irreconcilable difference of opinion, where both sides are firmly entrenched in their relatively justifiable positions. ... might just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Interesting debate, nonetheless

 

[a 1 player]

Whatever, I think you guys have what is know here as an irreconcilable difference of opinion, where both sides are firmly entrenched in their relatively justifiable positions. ... might just have to agree to disagree on this one.

I will second that idea.

a 1 player agrees to disagree with tboy.

 

[blueline]

Thank for the heads up, unfortunately I am clear on the other end of the city, but I do like that park. Is that what all the consturction was for this summer? I hope they did more than build just that.

They added two ball diamonds in the center of the park, that's pretty much all I can see. The old band shell is gone but I read where they are going to have outdoor concerts somewhere in the park. Maybe Pink Floyd is coming back?? lol ...... The rink is a decent size, with washrooms, what looks to be a change house and possibly a snack bar. But the city seems to take their time maintaining it. I was over the other day and they were getting it ready well after 10 am. I remember growing up on the mountain near Sackville. They used to have two great rinks there during the winter. One for pleasure skating and one for hockey with boards set up. Used to be a man who lived on the grounds and every night you would see him out there giving the rinks a flood, he kept those rinks in excellent condition. The rinks would start to fill up soon after daybreak.

BTW, do you or anyone else know of any other good outdoor rinks in the area? I'd love to find some with boards up for playing pick up hockey. Again, when I was a kid, I bet we were 15 minutes drive from 3-4 great outdoor rinks. Bruce Park, Sackville, Mountain Park on Concession St. We need more good outdoor rinks.

 

[tboy]

I will second that idea.

a 1 player agrees to disagree with tboy.

Hey, for the record I agree that it would be nice to be able to shoot pics of your kid's first skate and also that the manager went way overboard......

As for the kids in the little red coats, I bet it was a hallmark moment....

 

[snowleopard]

I will second that idea.

a 1 player agrees to disagree with tboy.

Hey, maybe I've got a second career as a mediator happening here

 

[dreamblade]

OMG Tboy!!!!

It's people like you who are making this society as twisted and paranoid as it is. The woman was basically stretching her authority to unreasonable levels, something typical of small people given an iota of authority. Second, like A1 and others pointed out:

THE KIDS WERE BUNDLED HEAD TO TOE!!! WHERE IS THE SEXUALISED CONTENT?

You're just plain wrong. Expecting the government to be fully responsible for our safety is wrong... and unrealistic. How many people have been mugged, shot, raped, beaten before the police arrive on the scene? How many of these incidents could've been prevented if some citizen would just have the balls to step in and yell "STOP!"

I'm not blaming the police, I'm just being realistic: They can't be everywhere. Catching the perpetrator afterwards is small comfort to the raped woman or the mugged and injured(crippled) man. Citizens need to police themselves against pedophiles and other criminals. These stupid, catch-all policies, like the one A1 faced, are merely turning us into sheep, innocents into criminals (like that Muslim family), and do nothing to really protect us.

Again I say you offerred no proof whatsoever that you WEREN'T a perv taking pictures of kids other than your own so she was just looking out (albeit very aggressively) for the welfare of YOUR kids.

Innocent until proven guilty. That is what our society is based on. We believe in the good intentions of our fellows until they give us reason not to. If everyone followed the line of thinking you espouse in the quote, we would quickly descend into a Stalinist regime, or Orwell's 1984.

"Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither"

 

[great bear]

Player: It looks like 2009 is going to be a good year for you. Another incident takes place in your life but no bloody nose, no damage to the genitals, and no punches thrown.

 

[a 1 player]

Player: It looks like 2009 is going to be a good year for you. Another incident takes place in your life but no bloody nose, no damage to the genitals, and no punches thrown.

I think you might just be right. And I have gotten laid twice so far as well!

 

[rama putri]

I actually disagree Rama, by stopping or preventing player from taking pictures she protected everyone's privacy at the rink.

It really is sad in my POV that you actually believe that. Sorry. I still don't want to live in world.