Firearms? Good or Bad?

[BigWaders]

and by the way...

if you check the hunting regs you will find that there is a very short list of animals that can be dispensed (nicer word than killing) and not eaten. These animals are pests (crows, gophers, coyotes, skunks) and can be shot as pest/predator control.

Almost every other animal (even squirrels) must be eaten if killed. If you follow the ethics of hunting and the rules there is no difference between shooting an animal and killing it. You do not shoot at an animal if that shot will not lead to a quick and humane kill.

and.....


Wild game is the original organic meat. Everyone going to the market paying a premium for hormone free beef should be an advocate of hunting.

 

[Snook.fr]

Now that I've jumped through their hoops I can proudly tell them that there is one more licensed shooter in this country that believes that guns in the right hands are not a problem.

Good Post here Bigwaders...However the Above comment does not make a lot of sense to me.....Why would anyone need a gun? Trained or not trained?

 

[BigWaders]

Good Post here Bigwaders...However the Above comment does not make a lot of sense to me.....Why would anyone need a gun? Trained or not trained?

This may not make sense to some... but why do people do yoga? Why do people paint. It is like meditation. Why do I shoot holes in paper? It is the same feeling.

Imagine setting up on the bench. The world and all its troubles and stress have come with you. In a few moments you are fixed on your breathing, your trigger pull, and a little circle 50 yards away. If you don't forget the rest you can't hit it. You can't hit it consistently.

After thirty minutes to an hour you head back to the real world with a clear head. I get the same feeling fly fishing. Me and a very small piece of water that I try to understand and become part of. When I'm successful nature lets me know (i get a bite)

I imagine hunting is much the same to some. Try and forget the world for a couple hours to totally blend in with the forest. If you are successful you get in touch with nature and she blesses you with an opportunity to take home food for your family.

Can I get that same relaxtion without a gun? Perhaps. Thankfully I live in a country where a firearm IS an available option. I don't want any of us to lose our options.

The question you are asking "do we need firearms" is in some ways asking if society should have the power to decide for us all what is right and wrong? Where does that lead and where would it end?

 

[Maximus69]

Right on BigWaders!

If not for our ancestors hunting back then to survive......we would not be here in the first place having these wonderful debates.

Firearms are as safe as the person who uses them. I would rather be and fell much safer in a stadium full of hunters and shooters with guns then the 401.

Canada is a very safe country compared to the rest of the industrialized nations. The States is on an entire different page then the rest of the world. Their media feed them all sorts of stories to make the american citizens feel scared and defensive. If anyone has seen Bowling for Columbine, you'll know what I mean. Like I said before, instead of spending billions on registry of firearms, lets get the government to spend money on the underlining reasons for crime, like poverty, homelessness and even get these drunk drivers off our roads. Take the reasons while people commit crime out of the equation and people getting shot will be no more.

Max

 

[booboobear]

Re: how's this for a logical reason

[. It's not unusual to see a rented helicopter full of hunters hovering overhead during bear season, , the people who come out here to "hunt," are fucking brain dead idiots., [/B]

You are absolutely right these people are brain dead idiots.

They are also rare in Canada and they do not represent the essence of hunting.


It is still not a good reason to condem hunting.

 

[booboobear]

Re: Re: guns kill people....

As for my problem with guns, I have had friends killed by them. I don't like them. Pure and simple.

Cars kill at least 30 times more people than guns.

The point, i think, is not do you get your meat from a supermarket
and pretend it died a happy death or did you get it hunting.

The real issue is you are never never going to stop criminals from obtaining guns.

If someone is breaking into my house I would want a gun to defend myself.

Everyone should be allowed to own a gun.

 

[booboobear]

Okay, you guys done now? Or will I have to shoot you both in the groin?

At least you have a sense of humour.

 

[George OTJ]

Re: Re: how's this for a logical reason

You are absolutely right these people are brain dead idiots.

They are also rare in Canada and they do not represent the essence of hunting.

It is still not a good reason to condem hunting.

You're right. This isn't a good reason to condem hunting. It IS a good reason why some people are so PASSIONATLY OPPOSED to idiots with guns. And when people get passionate, there is usually over-flow onto the responsible ones.

 

[booboobear]

As a person that started as a new shooter a couple years ago I can tell you the process has been engineered to be prohibitive to new shooters...

.

I know exactly what you mean because I went through the same thing. I believe in training but these fees are ridiculous.
It certainly discouraged me to the point where I would get a firearm illegaly rather than go through all that crap..

 

[George OTJ]

The question you are asking "do we need firearms" is in some ways asking if society should have the power to decide for us all what is right and wrong? Where does that lead and where would it end?

Perhaps that is the real need. The need is not to own a firearm; the need is the right to choose to own a firearm, and the need to respect that other people have a right to make different choices then I or you would.

I say that on behalf of the responsible gun owners, not the irresponsable ones!!

 

[pool]

Maximus69
There was mention of there being no need to hunt since we can buy meat from the grocery store where atleast we know tha animals die a humane death. WHAT? are you for real? a humane death? These animals are raised in slaughter houses where they are injected and fed all sorts of garbage, They are raised with no chance to move around, and when there number is up they are usually shot in the head and get a knife to the throat. If that's a humane death to you, then I totally disagree.

me:In modern society people do not need to kill food for themselves but can buy it from a source where animals have been killed humanely. That is assuming you call being born and raised in a state of deprived captivity humane.

Maximus69, I'm very much for real. Do me a favour and actually read my post. I didn't think I needed to expand, but I also agree that many of the methods are not humane, especially when they are not always carried out correctly according to regulations. The same can also be said about hunting if you look at the overall picture though. Not all hunters will kill the animal instantaneously and not all will even care.

johnyboy:
Don't confuse murderers with hunters unless of course you also like to wear dresses and do your hair up real purdy because It is easy to see where certain elements of hunting would bother the more gentler gender

Careful johnyboy, your "machoism" is showing

This debate will get nowhere, in regard to hunting, as those who oppose it are not about to go out, buy a gun, learn to use it responsibly and look an animal in the eye and end it's life. On the other hand those who defend their right to hunt aren't about to come to some sudden awakening and return to only eating meat that is already pre packaged and killed at the hands of others.

It was mentioned that these threads always "deteriorate" into a debate about hunting, but there is a reason for that. Hunters are one of the major groups of people ( if not the largest group ) who are passionate about their right to bear arms.

Essentially the only people who really have any real right to condemn hunting would be vegetarians, but then again vegetarians aren't considered "manly".

 

[pool]

Now in real life wild animals are often devoured while they are still alive. I've seen gators with my own two eyes swallow wild pigs in one gulp. I've seen sharks attack seals and all of those experiences are IMHO more inhumane than being killed by an experienced hunter or butcher.

The difference is, that's nature, Sheiky. There is no such thing as an ability to choose to show compassion or consideration of the way their prey dies. It's purely instinct. People tend to say such things as "nature is cruel". I disagree, nature is nature. Only humans have the ability to perform acts of cruelty or inhumanity, because they have evolved and have the advantage of "awareness" ...

PS I've seen rabbits have their lungs constricted by snakes while they attempt to gasp for a breath they cannot get, as their eyes bulge out their sockets, 'till eventually their feet stop kicking. I sold all my snakes long ago as I do not feel it's my place to interfere with nature and recreate it in captivity for selfish reasons.

 

[jwmorrice]

Picky I know but....

...I've seen gators with my own two eyes swallow wild pigs in one gulp...

Hehehe. Misplaced modifier. Sheik make me laugh!

jwm

 

[massman]

Excellent thread. Shows why we are canadian - having the ability to ahve a fairly sane debate about all of this. I dont hunt anymore, but would vigorously defend the rights of those who do. Few "supermarket hunters" give a passing thought to the sacrifice an animal has made to put that steak on the barbie or the turkey in the oven. Those who have killed their own food, do know what happens before the cellophane wrapper, and are appreciative for what that animal has given. For us to survive, other animals must die, wheter it is to feed us meat , to clear fields to grow our veggies, to find cures for our diseases, or more and more, to build houses and roads for our $40K suv's. The hunter is (usually) more honest and appreciative of his/her relationship with the rest of the world. On the other hand ther is no role in our society for guns for self defense if for no other reason that there is overwhelming evidence that they dont work - ie you are more likely to be killed if you have such weapons than if you dont. The gun permit / training system here is great - new gun registry system is nothin more than a combo tax grab/ a## kiss to the anti gun lobby.

 

[johnyboy]

Pool the reality is that if a group of people witnessed a deer being shot and field dressed, women would be much more upset then men.
Politically correct no.. but it is the truth. It has come to my attention that more and more men try to appease women by mirroring their feelings and in effect act more like them (maybe to get more pussy who knows). Men are different from women (thankfully) and most women do become a little hysterical in those type of situations and his comment sounds very womanly to me.

Which I can except if he is a women but for fuck sakes if he was starving would he sit and cry with the rest of the women because they couldn't kill something. If a dog or animal needed to be put down for humanitarian reasons could he be man enough.

Give me 20 men and 20 women and a dog that has been hit by a car and needs to be put down with a bullet to the head. I'd say those willing to do the deed would be more than a little lobsided in the gender category. Just calling a spade a spade.... he was talking like the low percentage group


Animals in captivity...quess you missed this one..

www.meatrix.com

As for self defence ..for example the blackout this summer...and people decided to loot or whatever in your neighbourhood...good luck with your golf clubs>>

 

[Garrett]

Which I can except if he is a women but for fuck sakes if he was starving would he sit and cry with the rest of the women because they couldn't kill something. If a dog or animal needed to be put down for humanitarian reasons could he be man enough.

I have killed animals with guns. I have hit animals on the highway and put them down with my own hands (no gun). You gotta do what you gotta do... it has nothing to do with being a man though.

I know many women who can handle a knife beyond your wildest dreams. They will dress a moose covered in blood and flies... live release a lynx (now *that* takes balls)... hell one of em chased a bear away from a wolf skeleton she was preparing as a gift for me. I think it is more a city/bush thing... and the bush bitches I know likely have more balls than you ever will.

Just so you know jonnyboy, being a man has nothing to do with pulling a trigger. Anyone can pull a trigger. *Anyone*.

You can have the last word... if you want a response... send me a pm.

 

[johnyboy]

Although what you say sounds a little far fetched to me I agree there are women who are a better man than I'll ever be.

Not anyone can pull trigger Garrett that is self serving BS and you know it.

People choose to live in there little pretend world. Facing reality is something that men do very well at shielding women from and then they are considered gentlemen. So men with no balls quit hunting and start to agree with them that it's an awful thing to do. So instead of fishing and hunting when you go to enjoy nature they instead scar nature with there ugly edifices to there manhood ...the cottage. Then before you know it there out shopping for cutesy little nick knacks so that can impress people with there ideal of nature. Oh let's build a dock..or a boathouse and we will put that set of antlers we pick up at the yard sale in there. Over the fireplace we can place place the trapper's snowshoes..sure honey but how about a piece of ass..oh no dear you still need to paint the garage hunter green and place the fishing poles in that antique rack...ok then we can go fishing ..oh no dear that's gross we don't eat them and it bothers me with those hooks in their mouths oh how uncivilized Charles really I am ashamed you would even think of something so dreadful, anyway and you promised we would have all those little jobs done so Jonathon and Tiffondra come up in their 13 mpg SUV theywill be more than just a little green with envy when they see our nature retreat.

Peoples ideal of nature are getting so warped it makes me sick. Let's pollute the lake with our sea-doo's instead of fishing..let's go atving instead of hunting a renewable resource cause that is a bad thing to do. Instead we will rip the shit out of the trails scare all the game away and burn a whole lot of gas instead of walking and maybe find dinner.

What I find surprising is the absence of women in this debate??
Maybe cause as the hunting camps are empty because there whossy ass husbands can't go cause the have to buy snowmobiles to further pollute and destroy nature with the bullshit trails and nature rides eh ahhh!! look at the pretend nature.

Who made the the fruitcakes judge and jury. What I do is none of your fucking business. It is as relevant today as it was 100 years ago I have to eat and I will do my own so called dirty work once in a while to keep me in touch with reality. I will not try to find the loftiest moral perch. Humans are very very destructive of which hunting is the least but the easiest to attack cause of the ever increasing number of dumb whiney babies. You got bigger fish to fry (sorry if that upset you) or do they adversely affect you portfolio. Heres one for yaw...industry and housing backing filling wetlands Ducks Unlimited (a hunting based organization) could use your help.

Hunting is Good ...and so are guns...just not during a crack deal

jB

 

[Ref]

a wolf skeleton she was preparing as a gift for me.

For the man who has everything...

 

[Hepcat]

Hey Johnboy, it's not sport unless you're getting shot at too. Try Afghanistan.

 

[WhOiSyOdAdDy?]

your point of view on firearms also depend on where you are from.. a big city ir urban area firearms are bad.. and if you are from the rural areas of canada.. firearms are a necessity